We touched on this a tad in the Montreal Discord, but I did want to drop a couple lines here. What has never made sense is how we have a goalie scale to off-set the need for goalies to raise their attributes faster, yet we cap them at the same 350 as skaters while they are in Juniors. Sure it is minimally beneficial to the Goalie, but there is no reason why you can’t uncap or let Junior goalies hit 500 TPE before a cap.
Aside from the continual activity that this benefits a team, you also reward goalies for sticking around seeing as a good majority that are active have to stick it out in Juniors for the max time. Reward a team that invests into a quality goalie by having it reflect in the quality they put between the pipes and reward good goalies by letting them be the center focus of how a team can be good (Defensive strategy).
Doesn't 350 get you pretty far as a goalie? They're still running the same scale from the S20's, right?
Since goalies have the lighter update scale, it's kind of already like they have a higher cap since their 350 TPE can get them further than a skater's 350?
Goaltenders already have a quicker route to maxing out with the lax update scale, but you want to give them an additional 150 TPE to boot?
This doesn't make sense to me.
Goalies have plenty of growth at 350 TPE. But it doesn't actually matter. Optimal goalie builds all look basically the same at every level of competition.
Yeah I'm kind of with the others on this. They already have an advantage on the skaters in the SMJHL.
Yes fucking please, it's such a bummer I am the exact same player for this season and 3 more, because that's how long it'll take to have enough TPE to start in the SHL whereas skaters can start being contributing members to their team with like 450. For now it's like all our effort is useless after capping at the start of the 2nd season and now the incentive/motivation of getting better constantly isn't there I could see lots of goalies dropping inactive within these next few seasons.
It looks like skaters haven't considered that other side of the equation, which is the entire point not keeping things "fair" vs skaters that's comparing apples to oranges lol totally besides the point Wally was making. As long as all goalies are on the same scale it doesn't matter scoring difference vs skaters would stay relative. You gotta compare the same things to each other. Really shows the self-serving mentality of some to dismiss the entire point of OP's post.
03-13-2019, 11:30 AMDaco Wrote: [ -> ]Yes fucking please, it's such a bummer I am the exact same player for this season and 3 more, because that's how long it'll take to have enough TPE to start in the SHL whereas skaters can start being contributing members to their team with like 450. For now it's like all our effort is useless after capping at the start of the 2nd season and now the incentive/motivation of getting better constantly isn't there I could see lots of goalies dropping inactive within these next few seasons.
It looks like skaters haven't considered that other side of the equation, which is the entire point not keeping things "fair" vs skaters that's comparing apples to oranges lol totally besides the point Wally was making. As long as all goalies are on the same scale it doesn't matter scoring difference vs skaters would stay relative. You gotta compare the same things to each other. Really shows the self-serving mentality of some to dismiss the entire point of OP's post.
Couldn't you make a bigger argument for skaters considering their TPE goes towards less in their attributes and they too have nothing to update on after their first season (generally)?
03-13-2019, 10:33 AMSymmetrik Wrote: [ -> ]Since goalies have the lighter update scale, it's kind of already like they have a higher cap since their 350 TPE can get them further than a skater's 350?
"Goaltenders already have a quicker route to maxing out with the lax update scale, but you want to give them an additional 150 TPE to boot?
This doesn't make sense to me. " @
ArGarBarGar
"Yeah I'm kind of with the others on this. They already have an advantage on the skaters in the SMJHL. " @
Eggy216
What doesn't make sense is your argument. We are all here for a realistic experience. So regardless of how you want to word it, 350 isn't this huge advantage when the sim from an opposition stand point isn't based on a goalies attributes versus a shooter. It is also dependent on a defenseman(s).
Next, test it Arg. Give a goalie 150 more TPE, then give them 300 more TPE. Two things... The stats of our Junior goaltenders is fucking horrendous. Look at elite prospects... they are looking at .930 + sv%s. So you are going to tell me that a goalie in the second year of the league at the start of the season is at the prime of their ability as a Juniors goalie at the end of their fourth season? That's bullshit and we all know it.
What is the concern, scoring will go down? So? So we have a good crop of goalies... thats a good thing? Right? Goalies damn near are guaranteed to see four full season in Juniors at this point and the good prospects max before the puck even drops on the start of the second season. No growth, no change... and they are expected to sit and scrape that TPE while their goalies compile mediocre stats at best. There are ample examples.
The excuse of having the advantage is mute when a goalie starts at a significant disadvantage not to mention (once again) the career path as a goalie spends an assured four years in Juniors and could very well see a back up position when they make the jump, which means a quicker turnaround on regression. Yes, I know you will argue they can fight regression a bit more easily. So is that the perk to being a goalie? Hmmmm... seems realistic.
@
Daco just tagging so you see.
I mean. To a point someone else made in another thread today. (maybe @"TommySalami" extreme ideas post)
Why not just raise the entire junior cap to say 450/500. That would require an additional season at least for most players to cap. Benefits everyone. Except maybe junior GMs who will find it harder to have good IFAs comparatively. And maybe also make the first half of rookie seasons harder.
Since I already graduated from juniors I don't like this
If I was still in juniors I would like it
03-13-2019, 12:53 PMTomasnz Wrote: [ -> ]I mean. To a point someone else made in another thread today. (maybe @"TommySalami" extreme ideas post)
Why not just raise the entire junior cap to say 450/500. That would require an additional season at least for most players to cap. Benefits everyone. Except maybe junior GMs who will find it harder to have good IFAs comparatively. And maybe also make the first half of rookie seasons harder.
I mean the conversation to this is... Do we lose more to new players not being competitive or do we lose more to the stagnant cap? I'm not about to fight the raising of a cap across the board when sim stats vs realism is more similar for skaters and controllable from a team based strat management stand point.
My problem is the SMJHL is already unrealistic for skaters and increasing goalie cap will make it even worse. Top goalie having a 0.906 SVP is about as realistic as the SMJHL having 2 players over PPG at this point in the season. The SMJHL in the last 4 seasons combined has had a total of 14 players at/over PPG, compare this to
NHL this year with 30+
QMJHL this year with 30+
WHL this year with 30+
OHL this year with 40+
and its juniors so people should really expect high scoring. I also think this would make rookie scoring even worse than it already is and its bad enough as is. If this was done in unison with increasing shot/goal sliders then I could potentially see it being viable.
Still think
this idea is viable and would help send-downs (both goalies and skaters) with boredom while also letting rookies get more in sim enjoyment out of their first year but will never happen so w/e.
03-13-2019, 12:39 PMWally Wrote: [ -> ] 03-13-2019, 10:33 AMSymmetrik Wrote: [ -> ]Since goalies have the lighter update scale, it's kind of already like they have a higher cap since their 350 TPE can get them further than a skater's 350?
"Goaltenders already have a quicker route to maxing out with the lax update scale, but you want to give them an additional 150 TPE to boot?
This doesn't make sense to me. " @ArGarBarGar
"Yeah I'm kind of with the others on this. They already have an advantage on the skaters in the SMJHL. " @Eggy216
What doesn't make sense is your argument. We are all here for a realistic experience. So regardless of how you want to word it, 350 isn't this huge advantage when the sim from an opposition stand point isn't based on a goalies attributes versus a shooter. It is also dependent on a defenseman(s).
Next, test it Arg. Give a goalie 150 more TPE, then give them 300 more TPE. Two things... The stats of our Junior goaltenders is fucking horrendous. Look at elite prospects... they are looking at .930 + sv%s. So you are going to tell me that a goalie in the second year of the league at the start of the season is at the prime of their ability as a Juniors goalie at the end of their fourth season? That's bullshit and we all know it.
What is the concern, scoring will go down? So? So we have a good crop of goalies... thats a good thing? Right? Goalies damn near are guaranteed to see four full season in Juniors at this point and the good prospects max before the puck even drops on the start of the second season. No growth, no change... and they are expected to sit and scrape that TPE while their goalies compile mediocre stats at best. There are ample examples.
The excuse of having the advantage is mute when a goalie starts at a significant disadvantage not to mention (once again) the career path as a goalie spends an assured four years in Juniors and could very well see a back up position when they make the jump, which means a quicker turnaround on regression. Yes, I know you will argue they can fight regression a bit more easily. So is that the perk to being a goalie? Hmmmm... seems realistic.
@Daco just tagging so you see.
You brought up the update scale when your argument doesn't even rely on it in the first place, which is why it didn't make any sense.
Drop the entire update scale part of your opening post and I understand the point, at least.
"What has never made sense is how we have a goalie scale to off-set the need for goalies to raise their attributes faster, yet we cap them at the same 350 as skaters"
This is what I am talking about.
03-13-2019, 01:11 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: [ -> ] 03-13-2019, 12:39 PMWally Wrote: [ -> ]"Goaltenders already have a quicker route to maxing out with the lax update scale, but you want to give them an additional 150 TPE to boot?
This doesn't make sense to me. " @ArGarBarGar
"Yeah I'm kind of with the others on this. They already have an advantage on the skaters in the SMJHL. " @Eggy216
What doesn't make sense is your argument. We are all here for a realistic experience. So regardless of how you want to word it, 350 isn't this huge advantage when the sim from an opposition stand point isn't based on a goalies attributes versus a shooter. It is also dependent on a defenseman(s).
Next, test it Arg. Give a goalie 150 more TPE, then give them 300 more TPE. Two things... The stats of our Junior goaltenders is fucking horrendous. Look at elite prospects... they are looking at .930 + sv%s. So you are going to tell me that a goalie in the second year of the league at the start of the season is at the prime of their ability as a Juniors goalie at the end of their fourth season? That's bullshit and we all know it.
What is the concern, scoring will go down? So? So we have a good crop of goalies... thats a good thing? Right? Goalies damn near are guaranteed to see four full season in Juniors at this point and the good prospects max before the puck even drops on the start of the second season. No growth, no change... and they are expected to sit and scrape that TPE while their goalies compile mediocre stats at best. There are ample examples.
The excuse of having the advantage is mute when a goalie starts at a significant disadvantage not to mention (once again) the career path as a goalie spends an assured four years in Juniors and could very well see a back up position when they make the jump, which means a quicker turnaround on regression. Yes, I know you will argue they can fight regression a bit more easily. So is that the perk to being a goalie? Hmmmm... seems realistic.
@Daco just tagging so you see.
You brought up the update scale when your argument doesn't even rely on it in the first place, which is why it didn't make any sense.
Drop the entire update scale part of your opening post and I understand the point, at least.
"What has never made sense is how we have a goalie scale to off-set the need for goalies to raise their attributes faster, yet we cap them at the same 350 as skaters"
This is what I am talking about.
It is part of it... The update scale or the cap (however you want to look at it), doesn't bridge the gap.