Quote:Originally posted by gfridge@Nov 1 2017, 05:25 PM
Jesus fucking christ this thread.

There's clearly concern and a trend surrounding double shifting.  The reasons for it are irrelevant.  Whether it's advantageous is almost irrelevant.  The fact of the matter is that it's at least tenable (because STHS allows it) and it's proven enough success that people are trying it.

Whether this is a root problem or a symptom of another problem is irrelevant.  It's having an impact on the league meta -- contracts, the number of available slots on a team, and the "start" of a new player's career.  Players and GM's alike have expressed concern (in high numbers based on this thread) that they don't want to be in a league where 6F is a thing.

So let's start with 9F as a rule, starting S39.  What do we lose from that?  That guarantees that there will be at least 126 forward slots in S39.  Right now we risk moving closer to a lower limit of 84.  This has implications for SHL and SMJHL players alike (and tweeners).  This gives everyone ample time to draft, mentor, and sign the right players/depth to field a responsible lineup on opening night.

This also gives us time to identify what TPE level someone contributes at.  I'm at ~600 TPE and 72 OVR.  Big Manious is at 81 OVR and is our top defenseman.  I feel like the non-linear nature of TPE:OVR tends to make us worry a bit much about this.

I said it earlier in the thread and I'll say it again, putting the word "should" next to numbers about players' experience with the league is what helps us solve this problem.  Something like "It should take X seasons for a player to contribute on line Y at the SHL".  600 TPE was me being super active (never missed Activity Check/Trainings/PT's) over 2 seasons in the SMJHL.  For someone to come in and contribute at the SHL level after 2 pretty active seasons seems solid to me.

Also, we need to cut the shit with the argument over not guaranteeing matchups.  Yeah, sometimes your F10-12 will be matched up against someone's F1-3.  That happens in real life too.  The fact is that if we have rules in place, it'll happen equally to everyone.  Right now there's a huge asymmetry where some people's F10-F12 literally is their top line and of course you're gimping yourself by playing with "depth".

Are there valid concerns about a 400 TPE player only putting up 5 points in 10 minutes a night at the SHL level?  Absolutely.  You know what's a greater evil?  Putting in 0 points in 0 minutes at the SHL level because their SHL team is rolling 6F.  I would've gotten really fucking impatient watching my player sit in the SMJHL at 350 eTPE because I wasn't needed in the bigs.  If we don't stop doubleshifting we get closer to that, even if it's not happening 100% on all teams.

KARI KEKKONEN | D | RETIRED
NAME: Kari Kekkonen
BIRTHPLACE: Oulu, Finland
HEIGHT: 6'1"
WEIGHT: 185 lbs
NUMBER: 33
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SMJHL CAREER STATS
S19 KEL: GP: 40, G: 10, A: 26, P: 36, +/-: 16, H: 42

SMJHL PLAYOFF STATS
S19 KEL: GP: 6, G: 0, A: 6, P: 6, +/-: 0, H: 6
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KAAPO KEKKONEN | C | RETIRED
NAME: Kaapo Kekkonen
BIRTHPLACE: Helsinki, Finland
HEIGHT: 6'3"
WEIGHT: 210 lbs
NUMBER: 19
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SHL CAREER STATS
S25 LAP: GP: 50, G: 2, A: 3, P: 5, +/-: -4, H: 75
S26 LAP: GP: 50, G: 4, A: 5, P: 9, +/-: -13, H: 94
S27 LAP: GP: 50, G: 6, A: 9, P: 15, +/-: -2, H: 35
S28 LAP: GP: 50, G: 7, A: 10, P: 17, +/-: -2, H: 96
S29 LAP: GP: 50, G: 13, A: 21, P: 34, +/-: -15, H: 85
S30 LAP: GP: 50, G: 23, A: 22, P: 45, +/-: 4, H: 130
S31 LAP: GP: 50, G: 20, A: 18, P: 38, +/-: 5, H: 162
S32 LAP: GP: 50, G: 18, A: 28, P: 46, +/-: 27, H: 183
S33 LAP: GP: 50, G: 17, A: 22, P: 39, +/-: 20, H: 210
S34 LAP: GP: 50, G: 12, A: 25, P: 37, +/-: -2, H: 131
S35 LAP: GP: 50, G: 10, A: 22, P: 32, +/-: -3, H: 115
S36 LAP: GP: 50, G: 11, A: 20, P: 31, +/-: 10, H: 138
S37 LAP: GP: 36, G: 9, A: 17, P: 26, +/-: -1, H: 72
S37 WKP: GP: 14, G: 1, A: 0, P: 1, +/-: -4, H: 19
TOT : GP: 650, G: 153, A: 222, P: 375, +/-: 20, H: 1545
------------------------------------------------------------
SHL PLAYOFF STATS
S25 LAP: DNQ
S26 LAP: DNQ
S27 LAP: DNQ
S28 LAP: DNQ
S29 LAP: DNQ
S30 LAP: DNQ
S31 LAP: DNQ
S32 LAP: GP: 5, G: 1, A: 3, P: 4, +/-: -2, H: 15
S33 LAP: GP: 12, G: 2, A: 3, P: 5, +/-: 0, H: 38
S34 LAP: GP: 7, G: 1, A: 3, P: 4, +/-: 3, H: 23
S35 LAP: GP: 5, G: 1, A: 1, P: 2, +/-: -4, H: 4
S36 LAP: DNQ
S37 WKP: GP: 12, G: 0, A: 2, P: 2, +/-: -2, H: 35
TOT : GP: 41, G: 5, A: 12, P: 17, +/-: -5, H: 115
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TATU MÄKELÄ | D | RETIRED
NAME: Tatu Mäkelä
BIRTHPLACE: Tampere, Finland
HEIGHT: 5'11"
WEIGHT: 180 lbs
NUMBER: 65
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SHL CAREER STATS
S40 BUF: GP: 50, G: 5, A: 17, P: 22, +/-: -28, H: 14, SB: 86
S41 BUF: GP: 50, G: 10, A: 21, P: 31, +/-: -3, H: 9, SB: 78
S42 BUF: GP: 50, G: 9, A: 21, P: 30, +/-: 2, H: 13, SB: 65
S43 BUF: GP: 50, G: 6, A: 24, P: 30, +/-: 1, H: 8, SB: 51
S44 BUF: GP: 50, G: 6, A: 28, P: 34, +/-: -6, H: 10, SB: 63
S45 BUF: GP: 50, G: 4, A: 37, P: 41, +/-: 10, H: 130, SB: 71
S46 BUF: GP: 50, G: 6, A: 36, P: 42, +/-: 25, H: 139, SB: 73
S47 BUF: GP: 50, G: 5, A: 23, P: 28, +/-: -4, H: 137, SB: 76
S48 BUF: GP: 50, G: 7, A: 25, P: 32, +/-: 9, H: 151, SB: 70
S49 BUF: GP: 50, G: 6, A: 22, P: 28, +/-: 5, H: 159, SB: 66
S50 BUF: GP: 50, G: 6, A: 20, P: 26, +/-: 14, H: 152, SB: 72
S51 BUF: GP: 50, G: 3, A: 23, P: 26, +/-: 8, H: 143, SB: 50
S52 BUF: GP: 50, G: 9, A: 21, P: 30, +/-: -3, H: 141, SB: 71
S53 BUF: GP: 50, G: 5, A: 14, P: 19, +/-: 23, H: 50, SB: 98
TOT : GP: 700, G: 87, A: 332, P: 419, +/-: 53, H: 1256, SB: 990
------------------------------------------------------------
SHL PLAYOFF STATS
S40 BUF: DNQ
S41 BUF: GP: 7, G: 3, A: 2, P: 5, +/-: -3, H: 0, SB: 10
S42 BUF: GP: 5, G: 0, A: 1, P: 1, +/-: -9, H: 2, SB: 10
S43 BUF: GP: 9, G: 0, A: 5, P: 5, +/-: -1, H: 1, SB: 8
S44 BUF: DNQ
S45 BUF: DNQ
S46 BUF: GP: 17, G: 0, A: 12, P: 12, +/-: 11, H: 59, SB: 28
S47 BUF: GP: 13, G: 0, A: 5, P: 5, +/-: 2, H: 32, SB: 18
S48 BUF: GP: 22, G: 2, A: 10, P: 12, +/-: 2, H: 64, SB: 32
S49 BUF: GP: 5, G: 0, A: 5, P: 5, +/-: 5, H: 15, SB: 8
S50 BUF: GP: 6, G: 0, A: 5, P: 5, +/-: -2, H: 18, SB: 12
S51 BUF: GP: 8, G: 2, A: 5, P: 7, +/-: -3, H: 15, SB: 11
S52 BUF: GP: 15, G: 4, A: 5, P: 9, +/-: 4, H: 47, SB: 26
S53 BUF: GP: 4, G: 0, A: 0, P: 0, +/-: 0, H: 6, SB: 13
TOT : GP: 111, G: 11, A: 55, P: 66, +/-: 6, H: 159, SB: 176
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KOLJA KEKKONEN | D | RETIRED
NAME: Kolja Kekkonen
BIRTHPLACE: Lappeenranta, Finland
HEIGHT: 6'3"
WEIGHT: 225 lbs
NUMBER: 8
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SMJHL CAREER STATS
S53 DET: GP: 3, G: 0, A: 1, P: 1, +/-: -1, H: 2, SB: 0
S54 DET: GP: 50, G: 2, A: 8, P: 10, +/-: -6, H: 15, SB: 37
S55 DET: GP: 50, G: 4, A: 12, P: 16, +/-: -24, H: 32, SB: 24
S56 DET: GP: 50, G: 4, A: 17, P: 21, +/-: -20, H: 52, SB: 71
S57 ANA: GP: 66, G: 6, A: 20, P: 26, +/-: 14, H: 52, SB: 70
TOT : GP: 219, G: 16, A: 58, P: 74, +/-: -37, H: 153, SB: 202
SMJHL PLAYOFF STATS
S53 DET: DNP
S54 DET: GP: 7, G: 0, A: 0, P: 0, +/-: 0, H: 2, SB: 3
S55 DET: GP: 4, G: 0, A: 1, P: 1, +/-: -2, H: 3, SB: 0
S56 DET: GP: 5, G: 2, A: 2, P: 4, +/-: 0, H: 3, SB: 7
S57 ANA: GP: 21, G: 2, A: 13, P: 15, +/-: 5, H: 13, SB: 34
TOT : GP: 37, G: 4, A: 16, P: 20, +/-: 3, H: 22, SB: 44
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KEKW KEKKONEN | C | RETIRED
NAME: Karl-Erik-Karl2-Wojtek Kekkonen
BIRTHPLACE: Lohja, Finland
HEIGHT: 6'4"
WEIGHT: 220 lbs
NUMBER: 69
------------------------------------------------------------
SHL CAREER STATS
S61 BUF: GP: 66, G: 10, A: 28, P: 38, +/-: 21, H: 59, SH: 134
S62 BUF: GP: 66, G: 19, A: 36, P: 55, +/-: 9, H: 84, SH: 194
S63 BUF: GP: 66, G: 17, A: 14, P: 31, +/-: -13, H: 91, SH: 148
S64 BUF: GP: 66, G: 16, A: 51, P: 67, +/-: 36, H: 82, SH: 212
S65 BUF: GP: 66, G: 25, A: 41, P: 66, +/-: 33, H: 136, SH: 230
S66 BUF: GP: 66, G: 38, A: 43, P: 81, +/-: 18, H: 64, SH: 222
S67 BUF: GP: 66, G: 40, A: 45, P: 85, +/-: -6, H: 76, SH: 224
S68 BUF: GP: 66, G: 47, A: 46, P: 93, +/-: 45, H: 51, SH: 326
S69 BUF: GP: 66, G: 35, A: 31, P: 66, +/-: 22, H: 43, SH: 269
S70 BUF: GP: 66, G: 33, A: 48, P: 81, +/-: 18, H: 66, SH: 297
S71 BUF: GP: 66, G: 36, A: 41, P: 77, +/-: 37, H: 55, SH: 257
S72 BUF: GP: 66, G: 25, A: 35, P: 60, +/-: -1, H: 58, SH: 281
S73 BUF: GP: 66, G: 31, A: 41, P: 72, +/-: 23, H: 48, SH: 305
S74 BUF/WPG: GP: 66, G: 17, A: 47, P: 64, +/-: 33, H: 101, SH: 164
TOT : GP: 924, G: 389, A: 547, P: 936, +/-: 275, H: 1014, SH: 3263
SHL PLAYOFF STATS
S61 BUF: GP: 9, G: 2, A: 6, P: 8, +/-: 4, H: 11, SH: 24
S62 BUF: GP: 9, G: 3, A: 1, P: 4, +/-: 2, H: 5, SH: 25
S63 BUF: GP: 12, G: 1, A: 2, P: 3, +/-: -1, H: 32, SH: 33
S64 BUF: GP: 11, G: 2, A: 2, P: 4, +/-: -6, H: 12, SH: 41
S65 BUF: GP: 18, G: 4, A: 7, P: 11, +/-: 8, H: 34, SH: 62
S66 BUF: GP: 16, G: 11, A: 9, P: 20, +/-: 3, H: 13, SH: 49
S67 BUF: GP: 4, G: 2, A: 2, P: 4, +/-: -3, H: 3, SH: 20
S68 BUF: GP: 17, G: 6, A: 8, P: 14, +/-: -4, H: 11, SH: 75
S69 BUF: GP: 4, G: 1, A: 0, P: 1, +/-: -5, H: 2, SH: 13
S70 BUF: GP: 7, G: 1, A: 3, P: 4, +/-: -8, H: 2, SH: 25
S71 BUF: GP: 21, G: 12, A: 9, P: 21, +/-: 6, H: 24, SH: 97
S72 BUF: GP: 5, G: 0, A: 2, P: 2, +/-: -4, H: 7, SH: 25
S73 BUF: GP: 6, G: 3, A: 0, P: 3, +/-: -3, H: 11, SH: 33
S74 WPG: GP: 22, G: 3, A: 4, P: 7, +/-: -2, H: 15, SH: 37
TOT : GP: 161, G: 51, A: 55, P: 106, +/-: -11, H: 182, SH: 559
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KAL ÅKAR KEKKONEN | D | DETROIT FALCONS
NAME: Kal Åkar Kekkonen
BIRTHPLACE: The Wilderness, Gielinor
HEIGHT: 6'6"
WEIGHT: 240 lbs
NUMBER: 75
------------------------------------------------------------
SMJHL CAREER STATS
S74 DET: GP: 66, G: 6, A: 14, P: 20, +/-: 3, SH: 83, H: 76, SB: 29
S75 DET: GP: 66, G: 8, A: 22, P: 30, +/-: 31, SH: 129, H: 123, SB: 114

SMJHL PLAYOFF STATS
S74 DET: GP: 17, G: 3, A: 7, P: 10, +/-: 8, SH: 18, H: 16, SB: 5
S75 DET: GP: 14, G: 5, A: 6, P: 11, +/-: 2, SH: 40, H: 26, SB: 27
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