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Kmarko · 07-09-2018, 07:15 PM

07-09-2018, 07:06 PMErM Wrote: I think it's a bit pathetic and bad for the entire community if we're going to bitch at people for bringing new players to the site just because we don't like them.

Definitely not bitching cause I don't like him. I don't know the guy. All I know is this is his 3rd time caught up in some sketchy shit, the 2 previous cases being pretty heinous. So why does he still have a job? When did advocating for the enforcement of written rules become 'slander'?

***artermis*** · 07-09-2018, 10:49 PM

I would've loved to have made a statement on this as soon as it started getting out of hand, but of course I worked today.

Anyway, here's the full story and IIHF HO interpretation.

About an hour before the Reddit post was to go live, Caltroit messaged me asking for my on a comment he was going to make on the Reddit post.

[Image: unknown.png]

Despite the fact it was going to be public, I felt this was far too much of a piece of pro-Czechoslovakian recruitment material, however, due to the wording of the tampering rule in that Fed Heads having to rely on their recruitment page, I felt there was a legal post that could be made, however one would have to strip away all the positive imagery for one's nation and state simply something along the liens of "and check out Team X's recruitment page" or something similar, that is simply a statement of fact in order to not be tampering.

Realizing that this alternative form of recruitment was definitely still grey area that even I wasn't completely comfortable with yet but had no reason to strike down, I made sure all Fed Heads knew of this option, in order to avoid giving an unfair advantage.

Two days later I receive multiple messages asking whether the post was tampering, of which I expected. I explained the situation to all of them, including WannabeFinn.

He and I had a short conversation in which he made a very good point in that we should not be recruiting before players even register, as that was more so the idea behind the tampering rule. I agreed with his assessment, as I mainly had advantaged over other teams in mind when I gave the green light, not the players themselves. I then asked Caltroit to remove his reference to Czechoslovakia in his posts, which was done immediately and also took the matter to the IIHF HO.

It should be noted that while Czechoslovakia did receive an unfair advantage, precautions were taken to avoid such, it just so happened that to my knowledge the Czechs were the only nation to make a post on Reddit.

Due to Caltroit's openness, forethought and cooperation, as well as due to the initial lawfulness of such a recruitment effort and later reversal, the IIHF HO has thus far elected to take this scenario as a lesson learnt on the matter rather than making this a tampering case.

karey · 07-10-2018, 01:19 AM

07-09-2018, 10:49 PMartermis Wrote: I would've loved to have made a statement on this as soon as it started getting out of hand, but of course I worked today.

Anyway, here's the full story and IIHF HO interpretation.

About an hour before the Reddit post was to go live, Caltroit messaged me asking for my on a comment he was going to make on the Reddit post.

Despite the fact it was going to be public, I felt this was far too much of a piece of pro-Czechoslovakian recruitment material, however, due to the wording of the tampering rule in that Fed Heads having to rely on their recruitment page, I felt there was a legal post that could be made, however one would have to strip away all the positive imagery for one's nation and state simply something along the liens of "and check out Team X's recruitment page" or something similar, that is simply a statement of fact in order to not be tampering.

Realizing that this alternative form of recruitment was definitely still grey area that even I wasn't completely comfortable with yet but had no reason to strike down, I made sure all Fed Heads knew of this option, in order to avoid giving an unfair advantage.

Two days later I receive multiple messages asking whether the post was tampering, of which I expected. I explained the situation to all of them, including WannabeFinn.

He and I had a short conversation in which he made a very good point in that we should not be recruiting before players even register, as that was more so the idea behind the tampering rule. I agreed with his assessment, as I mainly had advantaged over other teams in mind when I gave the green light, not the players themselves. I then asked Caltroit to remove his reference to Czechoslovakia in his posts, which was done immediately and also took the matter to the IIHF HO.

It should be noted that while Czechoslovakia did receive an unfair advantage, precautions were taken to avoid such, it just so happened that to my knowledge the Czechs were the only nation to make a post on Reddit.

Due to Caltroit's openness, forethought and cooperation, as well as due to the initial lawfulness of such a recruitment effort and later reversal, the IIHF HO has thus far elected to take this scenario as a lesson learnt on the matter rather than making this a tampering case.

Thanks for addressing this, even though it is a bit late lol. But I feel like this is an appropriate conclusion. It's not a perfect resolution as one nation is advantaged moving forward, but I don't feel like Caltroit was acting maliciously and he was quick to adjust his error. Honestly, having his named dragged today is more than enough penalty.. and thats my bad ...

As for the TPE conversation earlier, I think Caltroit should be allowed to gain TPE from the Detroit subreddit as it was outside of our recruitment drive, this is irrelevant to the national team advertising. It just so happens both things happened within the same post.

dankoa · 07-10-2018, 09:32 AM

"As the nation involved is one I've had a hard on for during my entire time on the site I'm going to let this slide"

At the risk of sounding like gorlab it pains me to see how ineffective the IIHF commissioner role has become since I stepped down. Taking votes on any matter under the sun and writing overly verbose statements =/= doing a good job

***artermis*** · 07-10-2018, 07:36 PM

07-10-2018, 09:32 AMdankoa Wrote: "As the nation involved is one I've had a hard on for during my entire time on the site I'm going to let this slide"

At the risk of sounding like gorlab it pains me to see how ineffective the IIHF commissioner role has become since I stepped down. Taking votes on any matter under the sun and writing overly verbose statements =/= doing a good job

While your comment doesn't necessarily require a response, I'd like to offer one without escalating the exchange.

Firstly, I'd like to acknowledge that I am not the only soul at the helm of the IIHF and that I'm joined by two great users in Ghost and Velevra and while I see that you are targeting me, I feel quite unwell with the accusation as by it's nature targets them as well.

I am truly sorry you feel this way, I'm very happy with my term thus far as commissioner, to which you may reply something along the lines of "of course you are" and I give you that that statement doesn't appear to be one without bias, but with the WJC of which I'm very thankful you revived and the initiation of hosting, which is among the larger undertakings of a few ideas or concepts that were brought up, discussed, refined and put in place through the democratic process that was in place for a month and a half and was what I felt to be the future of head offices on the site, in a way that the SHL one had done, but it had severe inefficiencies which had to be addressed as the system can only work with a completely active and attentive voting pool.

If helping the IIHF continue to grow, become more relevant, and more involving is inefficient, then dub me the most inefficient commissioner in IIHF history (note that this is by no means a shot at your time as commissioner).

If implementing a democratic process and not dealing so-called "justice" in harsh, undeserved, unfair and unfit blows, then dub me the worst commissioner in IIHF history.

and if communicating with those outside the HO and informing those that are interested in the matter and perhaps misinformed on the topic is "overly verbose" then sue me.

Lastly, should you think so little of me to think that one's nation matters whatsoever in delivering my judgement, then I worry what else you think I'm capable of doing.

One should note that Latvia too was in a situation of which some demanded punishment for, but instead I saw nothing but a misunderstanding and the IIHF HO, not just myself, fairly and justly gave our judgement.

I truly hope we can overcome our differences, whatever they may be, and I wish you the best.

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