08-23-2018, 10:20 AM(This post was last modified: 08-23-2018, 10:39 AM by DeletedAtUserRequest.)
08-23-2018, 10:02 AMArGarBarGar Wrote:
08-23-2018, 09:58 AMJR95 Wrote:
08-23-2018, 09:48 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I don't know why there was a switch from handing out the html files to what we have now. If you let all GMs/HO members have access to the html immediately then you can get the game out to people sooner.
So some games get leaked to some people. Who cares?
I'm not quite sure what you mean, all the game files are available to download in the GM office.
It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I think For those that like play by plays or are involved in those games having all those people accessible to them was a big problem. Cause Even if you did your best not to know the results you could tell who won just by who did or didn’t show up to the play-by-play or who kept quiet or was bummed out in your locker room. If we’re going to implement play by play in some fashion then it makes sense to try and have as many people as possible interested in coming in and watching it. As someone that likes play by plays i feel like the last few seasons have been successful, @ErM has done a good job trying to get the most out of them.
I miss having them often, and in fact my favorite season to enjoy as a player was in S19 when every game in the SMJHL, regular season and all, was PbP'ed and I absolutely loved it.
It's the only thing that connects me to my player. Without them, I'm just looking at a string of numbers after what just happens to be my name. There's no flavor, no attachment, nothing to make my player feel unique and connected to me.
I obviously do not speak for all, but my SHL experience has suffered with the gradual reduction of PbPs and as has my enjoyment.
I've must've read over a hundred PbPs by now, and I have only once ever had one where my enjoyment was curtailed, and that was due to occasional comments by the PbPer against my team, but other than that I have no preference for length, I hardly notice differences in writing/PbP styles (unless it's clearcut, such as someone using but a sentence in each post, or skipping large periods of times) but even when I do I have always enjoyed the art of the PbP and still do.
@Grapehead raises a good point as well: for those of you that don't like PbPs, why don't you just wait until it's over and wait for the box-score, or just check later, or if the box-score is unavailable just check one of the last pages in the thread, where stats are posted. I don't see how they harm those that don't like them, but perhaps I'm missing something.
tl;dr yes some people do enjoy PbPs, and some people very much so
MWHazard Wrote:i'll playwith anyone
playing with my teammates is part of the intangibles I bring to the table
i play with them a lot.
they didn't like it at first
but after a while, it just felt normal
Justice,Sep 18 2016, 02:09 PM Wrote:4-0 and 0-4 aren't that different tbh
McJesus - Today at 10:38 PM Wrote:FIRE EGGY
HIRE ARTY
08-23-2018, 09:48 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I don't know why there was a switch from handing out the html files to what we have now. If you let all GMs/HO members have access to the html immediately then you can get the game out to people sooner.
So some games get leaked to some people. Who cares?
I'm not quite sure what you mean, all the game files are available to download in the GM office.
It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I'm pretty sure the switch to google drive was to keep regular users from finding the box score easy too. Ppl (including me) could just replace the game number in the url of a different game in the index or dig through the parent directory and find all the games. GMs and HO still have complete access to the games now though.
08-23-2018, 09:48 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I don't know why there was a switch from handing out the html files to what we have now. If you let all GMs/HO members have access to the html immediately then you can get the game out to people sooner.
So some games get leaked to some people. Who cares?
I'm not quite sure what you mean, all the game files are available to download in the GM office.
It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I'm pretty sure the switch to google drive was to keep regular users from finding the box score easy too. Ppl (including me) could just replace the game number in the url of a different game in the index or dig through the parent directory and find all the games. GMs and HO still have complete access to the games now though.
JackCross always just changed the name of the file so people couldn't just guess it.
And if the parent directory isn't updated there is no link to access in the first place.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
08-23-2018, 09:48 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I don't know why there was a switch from handing out the html files to what we have now. If you let all GMs/HO members have access to the html immediately then you can get the game out to people sooner.
So some games get leaked to some people. Who cares?
I'm not quite sure what you mean, all the game files are available to download in the GM office.
It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I'm pretty sure the switch to google drive was to keep regular users from finding the box score easy too. Ppl (including me) could just replace the game number in the url of a different game in the index or dig through the parent directory and find all the games. GMs and HO still have complete access to the games now though.
JackCross always just changed the name of the file so people couldn't just guess it.
And if the parent directory isn't updated there is no link to access in the first place.
I had no problem finding it in the parent directory. JY used to just change the names too but I could find them. Either way I think it was just simmer choice because HO never ruled to go that way with it.
08-23-2018, 09:58 AMJR95 Wrote: I'm not quite sure what you mean, all the game files are available to download in the GM office.
It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I'm pretty sure the switch to google drive was to keep regular users from finding the box score easy too. Ppl (including me) could just replace the game number in the url of a different game in the index or dig through the parent directory and find all the games. GMs and HO still have complete access to the games now though.
JackCross always just changed the name of the file so people couldn't just guess it.
And if the parent directory isn't updated there is no link to access in the first place.
I had no problem finding it in the parent directory. JY used to just change the names too but I could find them. Either way I think it was just simmer choice because HO never ruled to go that way with it.
How exactly did you do that?
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
08-23-2018, 10:02 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I'm pretty sure the switch to google drive was to keep regular users from finding the box score easy too. Ppl (including me) could just replace the game number in the url of a different game in the index or dig through the parent directory and find all the games. GMs and HO still have complete access to the games now though.
JackCross always just changed the name of the file so people couldn't just guess it.
And if the parent directory isn't updated there is no link to access in the first place.
I had no problem finding it in the parent directory. JY used to just change the names too but I could find them. Either way I think it was just simmer choice because HO never ruled to go that way with it.
I think part of the issue is that PBPs just aren't for everyone. When Tommy told me his idea I was pretty excited about it, but I think expecting anybody to devote as much time as he did for 8 TPE is a bit of a joke (maybe he can get 8 TPE in all of the leagues for doing it...eh?). I hope Tommy keeps it up but I cannot expect that level of time commitment from everyone.
I have been trying to get some fresh ideas to keep it interesting. I did a "radio broadcast" style PBP that cut down on the time it'd take viewers to hear everything, but there were quite a few people that were not fans (It doesn't help that I was terrible). So it is pretty hard to put together a product everyone is going to enjoy.
In terms of the time people have to prepare, I cannot do much about that either. The games are simmed the day of and I don't think anybody wants to stretch out the process of the post season for more creative PBPs.
The issue with alternates like King getting very little time is just going to be the nature of the beast. Last season we had like 7 people bail on their PBPs and it created A LOT of issues where I had to scramble to find alternates. As people get weeded out by the system that is becoming less common, as this season we only had 1. Obviously it would be nice if nobody bailed, but I do not think we are going to do much better than only one person flaking out or having some RL issue at the last minute.
As I have said after every season, I am open to hearing out any ideas people have to improve PBPs.
PBP's are made good when the players on the teams are active.
This PBP from S41 WJC was super fun because everyone from UCORCAL was hyped in the locker room and doing a little bit of posting on the forum (though it mostly us talking in the LR). It was awesome though, and it was only 4 pages long! We couldn't wait for next season's WJC because of how much fun this thing was. Taking that away would be awful.
08-23-2018, 09:48 AMArGarBarGar Wrote: I don't know why there was a switch from handing out the html files to what we have now. If you let all GMs/HO members have access to the html immediately then you can get the game out to people sooner.
So some games get leaked to some people. Who cares?
I'm not quite sure what you mean, all the game files are available to download in the GM office.
It seems the last couple seasons they haven't been doing html files that can easily be viewed, but instead take the text and plop it into a google drive file, now.
And if GMs and everyone has access to it, that is on everyone involved if PBP information isn't getting sent out.
I think For those that like play by plays or are involved in those games having all those people accessible to them was a big problem. Cause Even if you did your best not to know the results you could tell who won just by who did or didn’t show up to the play-by-play or who kept quiet or was bummed out in your locker room. If we’re going to implement play by play in some fashion then it makes sense to try and have as many people as possible interested in coming in and watching it. As someone that likes play by plays i feel like the last few seasons have been successful, @ErM has done a good job trying to get the most out of them.
Agreed, things seem perfect to me right now (as much as I hate not getting TPE from PBPs with the reduction). Keep them there for the finals in the post season and the worlds.
08-23-2018, 07:53 AMGrapehead Wrote: Do PBPs actually hurt your experience though? It seems like you're just complaining about something some people like, and trying to convince them not to like it either, when the thing really doesn't need to have any effect on you at all. Some PBPs will suck, that's just the nature of the game unfortunately, but Erm seems to be keeping tabs on those writers, and I imagine the goal is to weed them out. I think it would actually be sad to see the SHL ditch PBPs altogether.
This is not the point I was making, what I was trying to say was that PbP's could be better handled. Mentioning the notion that we don't really need them was more to just see how people feel, as I do know that people like them and I don't want to take that away if they want to continue seeing them. But no one likes poorly done PbPs, no one. And I know there's a lot of well done PbPs that happen, but there's just as many poorly done ones, if not more. And that's not at the fault of the person doing them, they just don't have the resources/help needed to know what to do and how to plan a PbP effectively. I think the league would benefit a lot from keeping PbPs to players who have already gone through an SMJHL season and have been drafted just so they know what one looks like.
Just to add onto my previous point, I don't want anyone to be barred from PbP's after one rough one in their rookie season because they just didn't know. Let's keep it to people who we feel like were explicitly negligent to what they knew would be their responsibility.
08-23-2018, 01:33 PMJustice Wrote: Just to add onto my previous point, I don't want anyone to be barred from PbP's after one rough one in their rookie season because they just didn't know. Let's keep it to people who we feel like were explicitly negligent to what they knew would be their responsibility.
I think the new system works on a 2 strikes policy. Basically they get one freebie for a bad one but if they do 2 bad ones they're not allowed to do another PbP for a set amount of time or something. It allows the one's struggling more time to get better and for the PbPs to get better (hopefully) each season.
08-23-2018, 01:33 PMJustice Wrote: Just to add onto my previous point, I don't want anyone to be barred from PbP's after one rough one in their rookie season because they just didn't know. Let's keep it to people who we feel like were explicitly negligent to what they knew would be their responsibility.
Can you give me an example of a bad PBP for reference? I know they happen, just curious which fall into that category in your opinion.
One idea I had before was to turn PBPs into a league job. Hire a group of writers, divide up the games. I think you would see a lot more consistency, and you could hype up PBPs without the risk of someone flopping because it was their first time. I think this also gives new writers some structure to easily refer to when starting out, and they can be brought along with lower profile games to start. It would certainly be a niche job, but I definitely think a few people would put a lot of time into this if they were paid well.
I also like the idea of giving out 1 TPE to everyone in the thread (like weekend funtime) instead of a lump sum to the writer. The writer would obviously qualify for the 1 like everyone else though.
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