My love of the SMJHL's atmosphere prevents me from getting behind this personally, not to say that I'm completely against it but I really like the way we have things now. (Of course I would though, I guess)
MWHazard Wrote:i'll playwith anyone
playing with my teammates is part of the intangibles I bring to the table
i play with them a lot.
they didn't like it at first
but after a while, it just felt normal
Justice,Sep 18 2016, 02:09 PM Wrote:4-0 and 0-4 aren't that different tbh
McJesus - Today at 10:38 PM Wrote:FIRE EGGY
HIRE ARTY
I get where you are coming fro with this idea but i just dont think its necessary
If the issue is playing time or not "lighting it up" as a rookie i think there are other more practical solutions to those issues, Things like the rookie showcase and World Juniors help with these things, At the same time i dont think any new guy is expecting to join a team get 2nd or 1st line minutes and light it up right away. Its a grind and even at that the "grind" is one season maybe 2 if you're really unlucky.
New guys join a team and more often than not are given 4th or 3rd line minutes right off the bat 10-15% play time typically, this makes a lot of sense imo and by the second season they are 2nd or even 1st line. Its a quick progression in the SMJHL even with all these new faces.
I have only had one maybe 2 guys complain about their playtime or lack of points in my time as a junior GM and neither of those guys lasted because of the "selfish" mentality they had and only wanting to see their stats improve and not others it is a team game after all.
Its easy to keep new guys entertained with discord and all the new site features nowadays you dont need 50pt seasons and 30% playtime to retain New faces. People want the realism I find and although your idea does add to the "realism" i also think it complicates things for no real reason. and i have already heard on numerous occasions the site is overwhelming for new people.
tl:dr i dont think this is needed because of things like world juniors and the rookie showcase, rookies earn their sport normally and there hasn't been any complaints about this (to my knowledge)
01-02-2019, 04:11 PMTML99 Wrote: I get where you are coming fro with this idea but i just dont think its necessary
If the issue is playing time or not "lighting it up" as a rookie i think there are other more practical solutions to those issues, Things like the rookie showcase and World Juniors help with these things, At the same time i dont think any new guy is expecting to join a team get 2nd or 1st line minutes and light it up right away. Its a grind and even at that the "grind" is one season maybe 2 if you're really unlucky.
New guys join a team and more often than not are given 4th or 3rd line minutes right off the bat 10-15% play time typically, this makes a lot of sense imo and by the second season they are 2nd or even 1st line. Its a quick progression in the SMJHL even with all these new faces.
I have only had one maybe 2 guys complain about their playtime or lack of points in my time as a junior GM and neither of those guys lasted because of the "selfish" mentality they had and only wanting to see their stats improve and not others it is a team game after all.
Its easy to keep new guys entertained with discord and all the new site features nowadays you dont need 50pt seasons and 30% playtime to retain New faces. People want the realism I find and although your idea does add to the "realism" i also think it complicates things for no real reason. and i have already heard on numerous occasions the site is overwhelming for new people.
tl:dr i dont think this is needed because of things like world juniors and the rookie showcase, rookies earn their sport normally and there hasn't been any complaints about this (to my knowledge)
Its really unfortunate to see a head office member try and shoot down an idea like this especially when its gaining a lot of support. Just because no one is complaining about something (and people are maybe you just dont see it because everyones so private now with discord) doesn't mean things cant be improved. Being okay with the system being stagnant is not something that I think is good in a head office member and I would hope that you would at least consider ideas like this or some other solutions with this being a hot topic right now in the minor leagues.
01-02-2019, 05:14 PM(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019, 05:16 PM by RomanesEuntDomus.)
01-02-2019, 04:11 PMTML99 Wrote: I get where you are coming fro with this idea but i just dont think its necessary
If the issue is playing time or not "lighting it up" as a rookie i think there are other more practical solutions to those issues, Things like the rookie showcase and World Juniors help with these things, At the same time i dont think any new guy is expecting to join a team get 2nd or 1st line minutes and light it up right away. Its a grind and even at that the "grind" is one season maybe 2 if you're really unlucky.
New guys join a team and more often than not are given 4th or 3rd line minutes right off the bat 10-15% play time typically, this makes a lot of sense imo and by the second season they are 2nd or even 1st line. Its a quick progression in the SMJHL even with all these new faces.
I have only had one maybe 2 guys complain about their playtime or lack of points in my time as a junior GM and neither of those guys lasted because of the "selfish" mentality they had and only wanting to see their stats improve and not others it is a team game after all.
Its easy to keep new guys entertained with discord and all the new site features nowadays you dont need 50pt seasons and 30% playtime to retain New faces. People want the realism I find and although your idea does add to the "realism" i also think it complicates things for no real reason. and i have already heard on numerous occasions the site is overwhelming for new people.
tl:dr i dont think this is needed because of things like world juniors and the rookie showcase, rookies earn their sport normally and there hasn't been any complaints about this (to my knowledge)
Yup, completely agree.
Also I still don't see why people would be very interested to play in that kind of feeder league in the first place? Players either want to spend time with their junior team and the people and GMs they met there, or go up and start their SHL-careers. I don't think that extra step in-between those two leagues would be very enticing for most of them, at least it wouldn't be for me. If I had been forced out of juniors after one send-down season then I would've just gone to the SHL right away and i'm pretty sure that most other people would've done the same.
The SMJHL isn't broken, it's healthier than it ever was and people obviously enjoy their time there and build stronger connections to their junior teams than they did in the past. I don't see why we would want to change or prohibit that. Yes the SMJHL is different now than it was twenty or thirty season now but it isn't worse - it's better.
01-02-2019, 04:11 PMTML99 Wrote: I get where you are coming fro with this idea but i just dont think its necessary
If the issue is playing time or not "lighting it up" as a rookie i think there are other more practical solutions to those issues, Things like the rookie showcase and World Juniors help with these things, At the same time i dont think any new guy is expecting to join a team get 2nd or 1st line minutes and light it up right away. Its a grind and even at that the "grind" is one season maybe 2 if you're really unlucky.
New guys join a team and more often than not are given 4th or 3rd line minutes right off the bat 10-15% play time typically, this makes a lot of sense imo and by the second season they are 2nd or even 1st line. Its a quick progression in the SMJHL even with all these new faces.
I have only had one maybe 2 guys complain about their playtime or lack of points in my time as a junior GM and neither of those guys lasted because of the "selfish" mentality they had and only wanting to see their stats improve and not others it is a team game after all.
Its easy to keep new guys entertained with discord and all the new site features nowadays you dont need 50pt seasons and 30% playtime to retain New faces. People want the realism I find and although your idea does add to the "realism" i also think it complicates things for no real reason. and i have already heard on numerous occasions the site is overwhelming for new people.
tl:dr i dont think this is needed because of things like world juniors and the rookie showcase, rookies earn their sport normally and there hasn't been any complaints about this (to my knowledge)
Yup, completely agree.
Also I still don't see why people would be very interested to play in that kind of feeder league in the first place? Players either want to spend time with their junior team and the people and GMs they met there, or go up and start their SHL-careers. I don't think that extra step in-between those two leagues would be very enticing for most of them, at least it wouldn't be for me. If I had been forced out of juniors after one send-down season then I would've just gone to the SHL right away and i'm pretty sure that most other people would've done the same.
The SMJHL isn't broken, it's healthier than it ever was and people obviously enjoy their time there and build stronger connections to their junior teams than they did in the past. I don't see why we would want to change or prohibit that. Yes the SMJHL is different now than it was twenty or thirty season now but it isn't worse - it's better.
I strongly disagree that the smjhl as a whole is better than it used to be. I think the bonds people create are possibly better and activity definitely is purely because of discord. You dont hear people complaining about the biggest issue with the smjhl because they go inactive, and that is that staying at 350 tpe for 2 or 3 seasons just isnt fun. and at the moment you dont really have a choice. sure for some people it is enjoyable to be in the juniors for longer and all power to them, but i think totally ignoring the issue that keeps being brought up and just saying that everything is fine is totally asinine.
Also I still don't see why people would be very interested to play in that kind of feeder league in the first place? Players either want to spend time with their junior team and the people and GMs they met there, or go up and start their SHL-careers. I don't think that extra step in-between those two leagues would be very enticing for most of them, at least it wouldn't be for me. If I had been forced out of juniors after one send-down season then I would've just gone to the SHL right away and i'm pretty sure that most other people would've done the same.
The SMJHL isn't broken, it's healthier than it ever was and people obviously enjoy their time there and build stronger connections to their junior teams than they did in the past. I don't see why we would want to change or prohibit that. Yes the SMJHL is different now than it was twenty or thirty season now but it isn't worse - it's better.
I strongly disagree that the smjhl as a whole is better than it used to be. I think the bonds people create are possibly better and activity definitely is purely because of discord. You dont hear people complaining about the biggest issue with the smjhl because they go inactive, and that is that staying at 350 tpe for 2 or 3 seasons just isnt fun. and at the moment you dont really have a choice. sure for some people it is enjoyable to be in the juniors for longer and all power to them, but i think totally ignoring the issue that keeps being brought up and just saying that everything is fine is totally asinine.
But nobody forces people to stay at 350 TPE for 2 or 3 seasons. People usually hit that mark in their first off-season or shortly after and can move up to the SHL after their first send-down season if they like, if you've been decently active you will be in the 500-600 TPE by then which is serviceable in the SHL. Plenty of people have done so recently and have become contenders for the Jesster in the process. It's absolutely possible to go up after just a season or two down in juniors but unlike you, I believe that people don't do so because they like their junior team and not because there is no room for them in the SHL (which could be alleviated by expansion as well).
That's not to say that there can't be adjustments to other details of the SMJHL experience. Junior GMs pressuring people to stay down as long as possible shouldn't be a thing because as you guys said, the prime focus in juniors should be to develop players and make them enjoy the site, NOT the GMs winning cups at all costs to bolster their ego. The playoff-changes will hopefully be a step in that direction. I also wouldn't be completely against changes to SMJHL eligibility for older players, I just think that this suggestion and others that wants to force out people after their first send-down season are too drastic. Make it two send-down seasons (maybe three for goalies) and then we can talk.
Also I still don't see why people would be very interested to play in that kind of feeder league in the first place? Players either want to spend time with their junior team and the people and GMs they met there, or go up and start their SHL-careers. I don't think that extra step in-between those two leagues would be very enticing for most of them, at least it wouldn't be for me. If I had been forced out of juniors after one send-down season then I would've just gone to the SHL right away and i'm pretty sure that most other people would've done the same.
The SMJHL isn't broken, it's healthier than it ever was and people obviously enjoy their time there and build stronger connections to their junior teams than they did in the past. I don't see why we would want to change or prohibit that. Yes the SMJHL is different now than it was twenty or thirty season now but it isn't worse - it's better.
I strongly disagree that the smjhl as a whole is better than it used to be. I think the bonds people create are possibly better and activity definitely is purely because of discord. You dont hear people complaining about the biggest issue with the smjhl because they go inactive, and that is that staying at 350 tpe for 2 or 3 seasons just isnt fun. and at the moment you dont really have a choice. sure for some people it is enjoyable to be in the juniors for longer and all power to them, but i think totally ignoring the issue that keeps being brought up and just saying that everything is fine is totally asinine.
You don't have to stay down for 2-3 seasons unless you're a goaltender.
D-men can go up right away.
Forwards +1 season is ideal.
People just scared.
You only really need one season down at 350, and this is if you're a top prospect type of guy.
In fact part of the allure that DRIVES me to go up is to see how my full build is doing against top guys. Doesn't uncapping in some minor AHL defeat that? I want to see more guys going up to the SHL, less spreading the talent thinner through this other league that acts as ANOTHER buffer between the SMJHL and SHL.
I had been thinking about a NCAA system for the SMJHL that acts as a counter part for the juniors system, but my thoughts haven't been fully fleshed out regarding that.
01-02-2019, 08:38 PM(This post was last modified: 01-02-2019, 08:41 PM by Mayuu.)
01-02-2019, 05:45 PMBoomcheck Wrote:
01-02-2019, 05:27 PMkit Wrote: I strongly disagree that the smjhl as a whole is better than it used to be. I think the bonds people create are possibly better and activity definitely is purely because of discord. You dont hear people complaining about the biggest issue with the smjhl because they go inactive, and that is that staying at 350 tpe for 2 or 3 seasons just isnt fun. and at the moment you dont really have a choice. sure for some people it is enjoyable to be in the juniors for longer and all power to them, but i think totally ignoring the issue that keeps being brought up and just saying that everything is fine is totally asinine.
You don't have to stay down for 2-3 seasons unless you're a goaltender.
D-men can go up right away.
Forwards +1 season is ideal.
People just scared.
You only really need one season down at 350, and this is if you're a top prospect type of guy.
In fact part of the allure that DRIVES me to go up is to see how my full build is doing against top guys. Doesn't uncapping in some minor AHL defeat that? I want to see more guys going up to the SHL, less spreading the talent thinner through this other league that acts as ANOTHER buffer between the SMJHL and SHL.
I had been thinking about a NCAA system for the SMJHL that acts as a counter part for the juniors system, but my thoughts haven't been fully fleshed out regarding that.
Why don't you pm some of this seasons rookies that's called up to play the fourth line and see how much fun they have?
01-02-2019, 05:45 PMBoomcheck Wrote: You don't have to stay down for 2-3 seasons unless you're a goaltender.
D-men can go up right away.
Forwards +1 season is ideal.
People just scared.
You only really need one season down at 350, and this is if you're a top prospect type of guy.
In fact part of the allure that DRIVES me to go up is to see how my full build is doing against top guys. Doesn't uncapping in some minor AHL defeat that? I want to see more guys going up to the SHL, less spreading the talent thinner through this other league that acts as ANOTHER buffer between the SMJHL and SHL.
I had been thinking about a NCAA system for the SMJHL that acts as a counter part for the juniors system, but my thoughts haven't been fully fleshed out regarding that.
Why don't you pm some of this seasons rookies that's called up to play the fourth line and see how much fun they have?
I mean they are rookies. They shouldn't expect to be in a top 6 role on a good team.
Credit to Copenhagen, Wasty, FlappyGiraffe, InciteHysteria, and caltroit_red_flames
01-02-2019, 08:38 PMMayuu Wrote: Why don't you pm some of this seasons rookies that's called up to play the fourth line and see how much fun they have?
I mean they are rookies. They shouldn't expect to be in a top 6 role on a good team.
I understand that. But if you have the choice of seeing your player play 15+ minutes a game or 7ish. What seems more fun?
Also depending on drafted team situation may differ from player to player.
01-02-2019, 08:42 PMml002 Wrote: I mean they are rookies. They shouldn't expect to be in a top 6 role on a good team.
I understand that. But if you have the choice of seeing your player play 15+ minutes a game or 7ish. What seems more fun?
Also depending on drafted team situation may differ from player to player.
I mean kinda ironic from the guy with a 750+ tpe player in J ain't it? Like I get your point but your player is like the poster child for what keeps the rookies out of more playing time
Credit to Copenhagen, Wasty, FlappyGiraffe, InciteHysteria, and caltroit_red_flames
01-02-2019, 08:42 PMml002 Wrote: I mean they are rookies. They shouldn't expect to be in a top 6 role on a good team.
I understand that. But if you have the choice of seeing your player play 15+ minutes a game or 7ish. What seems more fun?
Also depending on drafted team situation may differ from player to player.
7ish minutes? That's interesting. Pretty sure these rebuilding squads have made lots of room for their guys.
I'm probably the wrong guys to ask though, with my first player I went up immediately. Pretty much played 3rd/4th line minutes my entire ELC. I was happy doing it too. I don't respect GMs that put too much effort into playing inactives over fresh guys that can still contribute in a way either.
01-02-2019, 08:46 PMMayuu Wrote: I understand that. But if you have the choice of seeing your player play 15+ minutes a game or 7ish. What seems more fun?
Also depending on drafted team situation may differ from player to player.
I mean kinda ironic from the guy with a 750+ tpe player in J ain't it? Like I get your point but your player is like the poster child for what keeps the rookies out of more playing time
Yeah, cause putting me on 4th line sure would be fun. I don't even have enough TPE to crack the 3rd line.
Excuse me for "eating minutes" in the non competitive league while I'm supposed to do fuck all on the 4th in the competitive league.
01-02-2019, 08:46 PMMayuu Wrote: I understand that. But if you have the choice of seeing your player play 15+ minutes a game or 7ish. What seems more fun?
Also depending on drafted team situation may differ from player to player.
7ish minutes? That's interesting. Pretty sure these rebuilding squads have made lots of room for their guys.
I'm probably the wrong guys to ask though, with my first player I went up immediately. Pretty much played 3rd/4th line minutes my entire ELC. I was happy doing it too. I don't respect GMs that put too much effort into playing inactives over fresh guys that can still contribute in a way either.
I'd rather not make my teams chances of winning a cup lower.
Would you have dropped Randellman to the lowest when he went inactive you mean?
01-02-2019, 09:01 PMml002 Wrote: I mean kinda ironic from the guy with a 750+ tpe player in J ain't it? Like I get your point but your player is like the poster child for what keeps the rookies out of more playing time
Yeah, cause putting me on 4th line sure would be fun. I don't even have enough TPE to crack the 3rd line.
Excuse me for "eating minutes" in the non competitive league while I'm supposed to do fuck all on the 4th in the competitive league.
Such a massive different between you and Gross tbh, how can they ever replace his production.
Being apart of a SHL cup run is a pretty good feeling. Buffalo hasn't won in a while, maybe their front office should bring in new blood like you instead of ramming their head into the wall with these other long timers that haven't gotten it done.
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