01-08-2019, 06:02 PMkit Wrote: yeah but it would be really cool to be able to compare stats to nhl teams and players
would make for more media too imo
Idk regression would have to change too cause it makes it easier to fight regression due to more chances for ac and itc. I think longer regular seasons would be great as it will limit the chances of a bad 10 game stench of the season ruining your playoff chances and stuff. Making the reg season longer will make the playoffs and offseason seem shorter and stuff like that.
idk can just sim 3-5 games a day for each team, instead of 1-3
01-08-2019, 06:33 PM(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019, 06:35 PM by ArGarBarGar.)
I wouldn't hate a 12 team playoff, even if that is a lot of teams.
How many people brag about playoff appearances on this site, anyway?
Also fuck longer regular seasons. It's been 40+ seasons with 50-60, no need to change that at this point just because we have a lot of teams.
01-08-2019, 06:05 PMEggy216 Wrote:
01-08-2019, 05:59 PMThatDamnMcJesus Wrote: I wouldn't mind a longer season but it would fuck everything in terms of history and stuff in terms of points record.
Isn't that what we have eras for?
We don't have eras for the all-time stats, so basically we will have essentially every single dominant player in the 50-60 game era getting pushed to the sides by the 82 game era.
And what are we getting out of it? Some media pieces to compare to NHL players?
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01-08-2019, 05:55 PMThatDamnMcJesus Wrote: ya thats the only option if we do a 50 game season.
It's not the only option, just the simplest. We could make just about any schedule work by pairing up each team with a rival that they play more often than the other divisional rivals:
-8 games vs rival (4 home, 4 away) = 8 games
-5 games vs division (alternate 2 home, 3 away and 3 home, 2 away) = 10 games
-4 games vs same conf (2 home, 2 away) = 16 games
-2 games vs other conf (1 home, 1 away) = 16 games
=50 games
Or we could go all-in on the 4-team divisions and have:
-10 games vs rival (5 home, 5 away) = 10 games
-8 games vs division (4 home, 4 away) = 16 games
-2 games vs other divisions (1 home, 1 away) = 24 games
=50 games
Or say fuck divisions:
-10 games vs rival (5 home, 5 away) = 10 games
-4 games vs conference (2 home, 2 away) = 24 games
-2 games vs other conf (1 home, 1 away) = 16 games
=50 games
Or say fuck divisions another way, rotating which team you face 4 teams each season:
-5 games vs 6 conference (alternate 2/3 and 3/2) = 30 games
-4 games vs 1 conference (2 home, 2 away) = 4 games
-2 games vs other conf (1 home, 1 away) = 16 games
=50 games
etc etc etc
If we want to keep a 50 game schedule we can do so easily with pretty much any divisional structure we want, I wouldn't pass on a more popular structure just because it makes the schedule a little bit messier.
01-08-2019, 05:55 PMThatDamnMcJesus Wrote: I want a system where a) from a gming standpoint that I actually have to worry about making the playoffs every season like we currently have and b)limit the potentially long playoff+off-season wait times.
12 teams making the playoffs would just making it easier to make the playoff every season and make missing the playoffs and its wait time until regular season even longer.
I think the way to resolve those two are to reward good performances with playoff byes, if STHS allows. That way GMs still have something to strive for (your chances of winning dramatically increase with a bye) while more users get involved in the postseason.
For each conference:
5th vs 8th -> winner vs 4th -> winner vs 1st -> conf finals -> finals finals
6th vs 7th -> winner vs 3rd -> winner vs 2nd -> conf finals -> finals finals
Or:
3rd vs 6th -> winner vs 2nd -> conf finals -> finals finals
4th vs 5th -> winner vs 1st -> conf finals -> finals finals
Again, I've never fucked around with STHS playoff settings so not sure what the limitations there are but we could make the play-in rounds shorter, a best-of-3 or best-of-5 or even a single game, to make the incentive for getting a bye even stronger and to cut down the wait for the the teams with byes (though I'm not sure they'll care too much).
I think a double elimination tournament (with the losers' bracket being best-of-1 until the end) would be awesome but I have no delusions of it happening.
01-08-2019, 06:33 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: I wouldn't hate a 12 team playoff, even if that is a lot of teams.
How many people brag about playoff appearances on this site, anyway?
Also fuck longer regular seasons. It's been 40+ seasons with 50-60, no need to change that at this point just because we have a lot of teams.
01-08-2019, 06:05 PMEggy216 Wrote: Isn't that what we have eras for?
We don't have eras for the all-time stats, so basically we will have essentially every single dominant player in the 50-60 game era getting pushed to the sides by the 82 game era.
And what are we getting out of it? Some media pieces to compare to NHL players?
I'm not even thinking 82, I'm thinking sometime down the line if we the league continues to expand we might have to go up to 55-60 games.
But I don't that's necessary this season, and considering it took 20 seasons between expansions the odds that comes up anytime soon are slim.
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01-08-2019, 07:14 PM(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019, 07:24 PM by Mayuu.)
Why not skip conferences and just go EU style, one big league and whatever amount of games is dividable. Top 6 qualify directly, 7-10 plays play in for the the last two spots against seed 1 and 2.
I never understood conferences but I guess they are a thing cause Murica+Canada=big
01-08-2019, 07:27 PM(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019, 07:30 PM by Hallsy.)
01-08-2019, 06:44 PMBeaver Wrote:
01-08-2019, 05:55 PMThatDamnMcJesus Wrote: ya thats the only option if we do a 50 game season.
It's not the only option, just the simplest. We could make just about any schedule work by pairing up each team with a rival that they play more often than the other divisional rivals:
-8 games vs rival (4 home, 4 away) = 8 games
-5 games vs division (alternate 2 home, 3 away and 3 home, 2 away) = 10 games
-4 games vs same conf (2 home, 2 away) = 16 games
-2 games vs other conf (1 home, 1 away) = 16 games
=50 games
Or we could go all-in on the 4-team divisions and have:
-10 games vs rival (5 home, 5 away) = 10 games
-8 games vs division (4 home, 4 away) = 16 games
-2 games vs other divisions (1 home, 1 away) = 24 games
=50 games
Or say fuck divisions:
-10 games vs rival (5 home, 5 away) = 10 games
-4 games vs conference (2 home, 2 away) = 24 games
-2 games vs other conf (1 home, 1 away) = 16 games
=50 games
Or say fuck divisions another way, rotating which team you face 4 teams each season:
-5 games vs 6 conference (alternate 2/3 and 3/2) = 30 games
-4 games vs 1 conference (2 home, 2 away) = 4 games
-2 games vs other conf (1 home, 1 away) = 16 games
=50 games
etc etc etc
If we want to keep a 50 game schedule we can do so easily with pretty much any divisional structure we want, I wouldn't pass on a more popular structure just because it makes the schedule a little bit messier.
well no shit I was just talking within the schedule builder that sths give us. There isn't a "rival" option.
I think the way to resolve those two are to reward good performances with playoff byes, if STHS allows. That way GMs still have something to strive for (your chances of winning dramatically increase with a bye) while more users get involved in the postseason.
01-08-2019, 06:44 PMBeaver Wrote: For each conference:
5th vs 8th -> winner vs 4th -> winner vs 1st -> conf finals -> finals finals
6th vs 7th -> winner vs 3rd -> winner vs 2nd -> conf finals -> finals finals
Or:
3rd vs 6th -> winner vs 2nd -> conf finals -> finals finals
4th vs 5th -> winner vs 1st -> conf finals -> finals finals
Again, I've never fucked around with STHS playoff settings so not sure what the limitations there are but we could make the play-in rounds shorter, a best-of-3 or best-of-5 or even a single game, to make the incentive for getting a bye even stronger and to cut down the wait for the the teams with byes (though I'm not sure they'll care too much).
I think a double elimination tournament (with the losers' bracket being best-of-1 until the end) would be awesome but I have no delusions of it happening.
to my knowledge you can't change playoff length mid playoffs
Honestly, I don't see the need for divisions in this league at all. People seem to take them as a logical conclusion of expansion but... why? They reduce variety because you play against the same small number of teams all the damn time while barely meeting a lot of the others, they also make things less fair overall in case one of the divisions is significantly stronger or weaker than their counterparts, which can always happen as teams go through cycles of contending and rebuilding. And the biggest real life argument for divisions (travel) doesn't apply in a sim league.
So yeah, I don't see a need for them at all, just have 2 conferences à 8 teams, playoffs with 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd and so on. If we feel that that's not enough teams in the playoffs overall, which could be a legitimate argument because unlike in real life, people who miss the playoffs in this league don't have the consolation price of earning a ton of money while doing so, then we could expand to 10-12 team playoffs.
01-08-2019, 05:22 PMxDParK Wrote: What’s your suggestion then?
idek.
On one hand I feel like 75% of the league is too much for making the playoffs.
another that playoffs+off-season wait times is horrible and 50% of the league experiencing that isn't option
This is a super important and quite tough to answer question imho that gets overlooked way too often. Because one of the biggest problems of the league is the season-to-offseason ratio, off-seasons are just too long compared to the seasons. Ironically this isn't because off-seasons have gotten longer, they aren't any longer than they used to be in the past, but because our simming has become so damn reliable with the last few simmers that it has cut down our season length significantly. Seasons used to be like 8 weeks followed up by a 3 week offseason, now it's more like 5-6 week seasons and then 3 weeks of off-season. However, this 5-6 weeks number only applies if your team goes deep in the playoffs - if you don't make the playoffs or lose in the first round then the ratio becomes much, much worse.
Look at last season for example: The regular season started on November 5th and it ended on November 29th, so if your team didn't make the playoffs you only had about 3.5 weeks worth of games, followed by a 4-5 week off-season. That means that people spend up to 60% of their time here without any games going on. Luckily we have a bunch of other activities like the IIHF and discord interaction, but that's not always a substitute for actual league games and generally it's just a terrible ratio overall. Even for teams who made it into the playoffs, losing in the first round can still put you in the 50% downtime range.
Now you could argue that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it stops people from burning out too quickly as they are actually excited for the new season time and time again, and it also allows the people with a heavy day-to-day workload, most notably the simmer, to have more time to recharge their batteries. Still, I think that at this point, we have too much time with no games going on compared to time with games. And there are different ways how we could adress this: Shorter off-seasons (unrealistic), longer regular seasons (has some downsides but could work) or simply more teams making the playoffs (my preferred approach)
Sure, some people might complain about "participation trophies" or whatever, but I think in a league like this as many people as possible should be allowed to participate in the fun activities, as long as it doesn't water down competition too much. Even if if is just a wild card round between the 4th and 5th seed, or something bigger like the 3rd-6th seeds battling out in round one of the playoffs, it would make things a lot more fun for a lot of people and it would also give more teams something to fight for during the regular season, because you won't have half a dozen teams completely out of the playoff race just halfway through the season. So yeah, anything between 8 and 12 teams should be fine imho - just stay away with that division bullshit .
On one hand I feel like 75% of the league is too much for making the playoffs.
another that playoffs+off-season wait times is horrible and 50% of the league experiencing that isn't option
This is a super important and quite tough to answer question imho that gets overlooked way too often. Because one of the biggest problems of the league is the season-to-offseason ratio, off-seasons are just too long compared to the seasons. Ironically this isn't because off-seasons have gotten longer, they aren't any longer than they used to be in the past, but because our simming has become so damn reliable with the last few simmers that it has cut down our season length significantly. Seasons used to be like 8 weeks followed up by a 3 week offseason, now it's more like 5-6 week seasons and then 3 weeks of off-season. However, this 5-6 weeks number only applies if your team goes deep in the playoffs - if you don't make the playoffs or lose in the first round then the ratio becomes much, much worse.
Look at last season for example: The regular season started on November 5th and it ended on November 29th, so if your team didn't make the playoffs you only had about 3.5 weeks worth of games, followed by a 4-5 week off-season. That means that people spend up to 60% of their time here without any games going on. Luckily we have a bunch of other activities like the IIHF and discord interaction, but that's not always a substitute for actual league games and generally it's just a terrible ratio overall. Even for teams who made it into the playoffs, losing in the first round can still put you in the 50% downtime range.
Now you could argue that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it stops people from burning out too quickly as they are actually excited for the new season time and time again, and it also allows the people with a heavy day-to-day workload, most notably the simmer, to have more time to recharge their batteries. Still, I think that at this point, we have too much time with no games going on compared to time with games. And there are different ways how we could adress this: Shorter off-seasons (unrealistic), longer regular seasons (has some downsides but could work) or simply more teams making the playoffs (my preferred approach)
Sure, some people might complain about "participation trophies" or whatever, but I think in a league like this as many people as possible should be allowed to participate in the fun activities, as long as it doesn't water down competition too much. Even if if is just a wild card round between the 4th and 5th seed, or something bigger like the 3rd-6th seeds battling out in round one of the playoffs, it would make things a lot more fun for a lot of people and it would also give more teams something to fight for during the regular season, because you won't have half a dozen teams completely out of the playoff race just halfway through the season. So yeah, anything between 8 and 12 teams should be fine imho - just stay away with that division bullshit .
Good post, though why the hate against divisions?
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01-08-2019, 09:02 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: This is a super important and quite tough to answer question imho that gets overlooked way too often. Because one of the biggest problems of the league is the season-to-offseason ratio, off-seasons are just too long compared to the seasons. Ironically this isn't because off-seasons have gotten longer, they aren't any longer than they used to be in the past, but because our simming has become so damn reliable with the last few simmers that it has cut down our season length significantly. Seasons used to be like 8 weeks followed up by a 3 week offseason, now it's more like 5-6 week seasons and then 3 weeks of off-season. However, this 5-6 weeks number only applies if your team goes deep in the playoffs - if you don't make the playoffs or lose in the first round then the ratio becomes much, much worse.
Look at last season for example: The regular season started on November 5th and it ended on November 29th, so if your team didn't make the playoffs you only had about 3.5 weeks worth of games, followed by a 4-5 week off-season. That means that people spend up to 60% of their time here without any games going on. Luckily we have a bunch of other activities like the IIHF and discord interaction, but that's not always a substitute for actual league games and generally it's just a terrible ratio overall. Even for teams who made it into the playoffs, losing in the first round can still put you in the 50% downtime range.
Now you could argue that this isn't necessarily a bad thing, because it stops people from burning out too quickly as they are actually excited for the new season time and time again, and it also allows the people with a heavy day-to-day workload, most notably the simmer, to have more time to recharge their batteries. Still, I think that at this point, we have too much time with no games going on compared to time with games. And there are different ways how we could adress this: Shorter off-seasons (unrealistic), longer regular seasons (has some downsides but could work) or simply more teams making the playoffs (my preferred approach)
Sure, some people might complain about "participation trophies" or whatever, but I think in a league like this as many people as possible should be allowed to participate in the fun activities, as long as it doesn't water down competition too much. Even if if is just a wild card round between the 4th and 5th seed, or something bigger like the 3rd-6th seeds battling out in round one of the playoffs, it would make things a lot more fun for a lot of people and it would also give more teams something to fight for during the regular season, because you won't have half a dozen teams completely out of the playoff race just halfway through the season. So yeah, anything between 8 and 12 teams should be fine imho - just stay away with that division bullshit .
01-08-2019, 11:16 PM(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019, 11:17 PM by Hallsy.)
01-08-2019, 11:12 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
01-08-2019, 11:07 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: Good post, though why the hate against divisions?
Previous post
If we use the STHS scheduling thing, no possible combination works for a 50 game season within that with16 teams unless we manually edit it. Which is a pain in the ass to do and weird.
Divisions actually allow use to use the scheduling thing within a 16 team league.
Eggy216
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