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SMJHL Conflict of Interest Rule Update
#16

01-27-2019, 07:30 PMSymmetrik Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:25 PMztevans Wrote: I still have a "management" tag in Detroit Discord as a former GM of the team.  My input was minimal, at best, and I recused myself entirely ahead of the last J Draft, but they've let me keep the tag.  If this rule existed as written a season ago, they would have been stupid to not claim I was a "coach" and draft me in the second round.  Same with Montreal and ArGar, Jenny and Kelowna, etc.

Tomen with ANC too. You could do it with non alumni too if you really wanted. Literally you can just pick a player and have them essentially bypass the draft to be an auto 2nd rounder.

maybe doing something like the rule for drafting SHL Co-GMs should be implemented to avoid this, you've raised a good point here

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#17

01-27-2019, 07:23 PMztevans Wrote: Five SHL dollars to the person who can explain me how on earth you will possibly enforce this in a realistic manner.

If there were to be a conflict, it would pretty much require the management of the team without the player tattling, or the player slipping up. That management group would be the only ones who would know.

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#18
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2019, 07:37 PM by O4L.)

01-27-2019, 07:10 PMspooked Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:06 PMO4L Wrote: 1. If a player is undrafted in the SHL Entry Draft, they return to juniors as a SMJHL Free Agent. The type of player determines how they may be signed.
2. These players are NOT send-downs. They do NOT qualify for ANY SHL Point Tasks, Training, or anything a send-down would qualify to complete. They are also NOT SMJHL Rookies. They may do SMJHL weekly training and Activity Checks ONLY. Undrafted SMJHL players may        NOT complete SMJHL Point Tasks or Team Training Camp.
3. A SMJHL player must enter the SHL via draft. A player may not bypass the SMJHL to sign directly to an SHL team. A player may not declare themselves ineligible for either the SMJHL or SHL Draft (i.e. may not declare themselves Free Agents).


This rule needs to be changed next. It's a rule just to have a rule with no real purpose. If a player is inactive his junior year and for whatever reason goes undrafted and comes back then he is basically forced into retirement or is two seasons behind his peers. It used to be any player whose draft year had past could do SHL pts regardless of whether they were drafted or not. I get that we don't want undrafted SHL players signing with SHL teams but I can't recall it ever being a problem and at most happened every few seasons. IMO its much better to allow these players to sign with w/e team they want than it is forcing them to wait another year of doing absolutely nothing or retiring since they already got screwed over by not being picked.

an ANC player got wrecked by this a few seasons ago. No budge on it.

Also, management drafting rule is super flimsy and gonna be abused every draft on the recreates. Not sure why that is even included tbh. If they really want to help manage a team they can work a trade out after the draft to get them into the LR. Rule about conflict stands on its own, don't need to change drafting rules at all IMO.

Did that player stay active?

I know if
1. I go undrafted
2. I can't sign with SHL team and have to wait another 2 months
3. I can't do PTS and I'm completely behind everyone in my class
4. Im one year closer to regression than everyone else in draft class

I'd just quit the league instead of staying active for that season or recreating. There is literally no reason for rookies to get screwed over like this just cause they need a rule. If the problem is association with SHL team then just let them sign with an SHL team, it's not like it was creating big problems before.

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#19

01-27-2019, 07:36 PMO4L Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:10 PMspooked Wrote: an ANC player got wrecked by this a few seasons ago. No budge on it.

Also, management drafting rule is super flimsy and gonna be abused every draft on the recreates. Not sure why that is even included tbh. If they really want to help manage a team they can work a trade out after the draft to get them into the LR. Rule about conflict stands on its own, don't need to change drafting rules at all IMO.

Did that player stay active?

I know if
1. I go undrafted
2. I can't sign with SHL team and have to wait another 2 months
3. I can't do PTS and I'm completely behind everyone in my class
4. Im one year closer to regression than everyone else in draft class

I'd just quit the league instead of staying active for that season or recreating. There is literally no reason for players to get screwed over like this just cause they need a rule. If the problem is association with SHL team then just let them sign with an SHL team, it's not like it was creating big problems before.

It was Mac. He just recreated again.

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#20

01-27-2019, 07:30 PMSymmetrik Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:25 PMztevans Wrote: I still have a "management" tag in Detroit Discord as a former GM of the team.  My input was minimal, at best, and I recused myself entirely ahead of the last J Draft, but they've let me keep the tag.  If this rule existed as written a season ago, they would have been stupid to not claim I was a "coach" and draft me in the second round.  Same with Montreal and ArGar, Jenny and Kelowna, etc.

Tomen with ANC too. You could do it with non alumni too if you really wanted. Literally you can just pick a player and have them essentially bypass the draft to be an auto 2nd rounder.

Sadly no longer have the management tag since I came back from the dead. but would have abused this 100%

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3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)
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#21

01-27-2019, 07:37 PMTomen Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:36 PMO4L Wrote: Did that player stay active?

I know if
1. I go undrafted
2. I can't sign with SHL team and have to wait another 2 months
3. I can't do PTS and I'm completely behind everyone in my class
4. Im one year closer to regression than everyone else in draft class

I'd just quit the league instead of staying active for that season or recreating. There is literally no reason for players to get screwed over like this just cause they need a rule. If the problem is association with SHL team then just let them sign with an SHL team, it's not like it was creating big problems before.

It was Mac. He just recreated again.

Hmm well we can't expect all rookies to have the same commitment to their in sim face-off percentage as Mac.

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"“HA HA! THIS GAME WILL NEVER END! I POSSESS THE SOUL OF EVERY GOALIE ON TEAM B!! CREW 4 LIFE!! SIGN WITH EDMONTON FOR THE CUP!!!” cackled Belial as he placed a Fedora on his head."
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Calgary Dragons GM S14-S23
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#22
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2019, 07:45 PM by Tomen.)

01-27-2019, 07:40 PMO4L Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:37 PMTomen Wrote: It was Mac. He just recreated again.

Hmm well we can't expect all rookies to have the same commitment to their in sim face-off percentage as Mac.

Sadly yeah :(

The rule you mentioned was always something I would have loved to see being changed to: The player enters the next seasons draft while eligible to do all task just like a normal send-down. Their rights are hold by their SMJHL team regardless how much TPE they currently have. This could also technically be "abused" but the abuse is so negligible.

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3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)
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#23

01-27-2019, 07:37 PMTomen Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:30 PMSymmetrik Wrote: Tomen with ANC too. You could do it with non alumni too if you really wanted. Literally you can just pick a player and have them essentially bypass the draft to be an auto 2nd rounder.

Sadly no longer have the management tag since I came back from the dead. but would have abused this 100%

There's not actually a defined thing. There's not even a public list or a set number of "management positions". Even without the tag, no one would be the wiser if both you and the GM claimed you were part of management.

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#24

Standard rules regarding the drafting of GMs will apply to management positions, so no giving someone in the upcoming draft a management position just to draft them. We'll likely be having GMs list any extra management positions as part of off-season tasks and any attempt to circumvent this will result in a punishment for the team. We'd hope that teams would be honest with us here.

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#25

01-27-2019, 07:44 PMTomen Wrote:
01-27-2019, 07:40 PMO4L Wrote: Hmm well we can't expect all rookies to have the same commitment to their in sim face-off percentage as Mac.

Sadly yeah :(

The rule you mentioned was always something I would have loved to see being changed to: The player enters the next seasons draft while eligible to do all task just like a normal send-down. Their rights are hold by their SMJHL team regardless how much TPE they currently have. This could also technically be "abused" but the abuse is so negligible.

Much better than the current system. I'm still not really a fan of making these players wait an extra season to get an SHL team but at least they aren't treated like they did something wrong by not getting drafted.

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"“HA HA! THIS GAME WILL NEVER END! I POSSESS THE SOUL OF EVERY GOALIE ON TEAM B!! CREW 4 LIFE!! SIGN WITH EDMONTON FOR THE CUP!!!” cackled Belial as he placed a Fedora on his head."
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#26

01-27-2019, 08:03 PMNobody Wrote: Standard rules regarding the drafting of GMs will apply to management positions, so no giving someone in the upcoming draft a management position just to draft them. We'll likely be having GMs list any extra management positions as part of off-season tasks and any attempt to circumvent this will result in a punishment for the team. We'd hope that teams would be honest with us here.

Okay, sure? But what if you know a guy is recreating in 2-3 seasons?

And again, how are you possibly going to police this? Even *you* can't see the management channel in Detroit's Discord. Can you prove I haven't been double-crossing Montreal? Even if I lose the tag and "title," I could still simply message Grok or Tig with any forbidden information, whether it be line advice, gossip from Montreal, w/e.

Sometimes, stupid people do stupid shit. Creating unnecessary, convoluted rules won't prevent stupid people from doing stupid shit.

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#27

01-27-2019, 08:21 PMztevans Wrote:
01-27-2019, 08:03 PMNobody Wrote: Standard rules regarding the drafting of GMs will apply to management positions, so no giving someone in the upcoming draft a management position just to draft them. We'll likely be having GMs list any extra management positions as part of off-season tasks and any attempt to circumvent this will result in a punishment for the team. We'd hope that teams would be honest with us here.

Okay, sure? But what if you know a guy is recreating in 2-3 seasons?

And again, how are you possibly going to police this?  Even *you* can't see the management channel in Detroit's Discord. Can you prove I haven't been double-crossing Montreal? Even if I lose the tag and "title," I could still simply message Grok or Tig with any forbidden information, whether it be line advice, gossip from Montreal, w/e.

Sometimes, stupid people do stupid shit.  Creating unnecessary, convoluted rules won't prevent stupid people from doing stupid shit.

I mean it doesn't prevent it. But it does let us punish people if it does happen.

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#28
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2019, 08:50 PM by spooked.)

01-27-2019, 08:35 PMNobody Wrote:
01-27-2019, 08:21 PMztevans Wrote: Okay, sure? But what if you know a guy is recreating in 2-3 seasons?

And again, how are you possibly going to police this?  Even *you* can't see the management channel in Detroit's Discord. Can you prove I haven't been double-crossing Montreal? Even if I lose the tag and "title," I could still simply message Grok or Tig with any forbidden information, whether it be line advice, gossip from Montreal, w/e.

Sometimes, stupid people do stupid shit.  Creating unnecessary, convoluted rules won't prevent stupid people from doing stupid shit.

I mean it doesn't prevent it. But it does let us punish people if it does happen.

Like I said though, the conflict of interest portion stands on its own. You are creating a loophole that you don't need to. No reason to have it influence drafting at all. Force the GMs to sort it out if they really want a recreate like always.
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#29

01-27-2019, 08:35 PMNobody Wrote: I mean it doesn't prevent it. But it does let us punish people if it does happen.

Does literally everything require a punishment, though? Something like a conflict of interest of this nature seems like it would be far easier to just handle internally between the parties involved rather than creating more legislature that will clearly have a more far-reaching impact than I think HO realizes.

Also still waiting to pay out that five dollars to whoever can explain how this can be realistically enforced. This will end up being a training wheels version of tampering, where it's a one-in-ten, maybe, shot of actually being caught if it happens. Not to mention, again, it creates more loopholes than it closes.

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#30

I dunno about this... I will never not give Montreal advice and assistance. Hell, I "own" the discord server, so they can't keep me out of their management discussions in there. I also hope to play for a different SMJHL team someday. So ... I'll likely be in violation of this in some fashion I guess? Seems like a rule to prevent something that wasn't really an issue? This all came about cause samee still helps Kelowna with their lines? tf?





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