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BDonini · 04-16-2019, 02:13 PM

I don't know if this is a topic that's been discussed before but I think that the pay scale for the graphics should see an increase. Imo, there's a big disparity between the pay system for media and for graphics. I wrote an article about SMJHL prospects in about 30 minutes last night reaching 1005 words. They pay out for that in a non double media week would be 1mil which is only 100k less than the pay out for a 10/10 sig (which the average SHL member doesn't have the skill required to make). I submitted a sig on Sunday which took me 4-5 hours to make and was graded as a 7/10 which in a non double media week would pay out 700k. It doesn't seem right to me that a low effort article is paid virtually the same as the best possible graphics. Can the members more experienced with graphics make a good sig much quicker than in 4-5 hours? Sure. Is it possible to make 1mil in 30 minutes off of graphic work? Maybe for Karey/Wasty but that's about it. It kinda sucks because in the time it would take me to make a 7-8/10 sig, I can probably write 4000-5000 words which is obviously much more worth the time but writing is boring and repetitive whereas designing is much more enjoyable. I'm not suggesting to make it possible to make 4-5mil off of one sig but I think that a scale where an average member can make a decent graphic and make at least as much as they'd make for a low effort article would be much more fair imo. If a 7-8/10 is in the 1.5-2m range and a 10/10 is something like 3m, I think it would be much more reflective of the time and effort it takes to do that. If earning too much is an issue (since a scale like that one would have a max of 12m/week), then maybe lowering the maximum submissions to 3 or placing a weekly earning cap could solve that.

Would like to know what other people who do both write and design for money think.

JNH · 04-16-2019, 02:20 PM

Dunno, that's why grading and the scale is so hard. When I switched it from straight words = cash to a grading scale to reward those that put extra time in (e.g a lot of stats work but that doesn't show up in words), it worked but it's a lot more effort for the grader and sometimes effort of the writer isn't clear.

Tbh, the gfx gods can crank out a 7 or 8/10 in like 30 minutes max, even some closer to average sig makers as well. But that's also getting the same grade as what you spent 4-5 hours on. So how do you compensate for time? You can't really, which makes it hard to up the payment as you'll be over compensating some but at the current point you're under compensating some. What would we rather have?

karey · 04-16-2019, 02:30 PM

I think the issue is that most people aren't spending 4-5 hours on their projects. And that grading doesn't necessarily take into account time spent.
With writing, there is a correlation between time spent and words written, however I'm graphics however, a Sig can take minutes or hours and not evidently showcase the effort.

Wasty and I spend more time on SIG's that people realize because of how many layers we use and refinements we make. Developing artists tend to only use few layers and it is easy to pump out 4 SIG's a week when you are maxing out at 15 layers on a Sig (I average ~ 40 layers)

The pay scale is fine IMO, I think there are more opportunities for graphics people to mmake money on this site. I generate all my money through contests, but before that, I did commissions for people for 1m+ per sig. That's something writers can't do

BDonini · 04-16-2019, 02:32 PM

04-16-2019, 02:20 PMJNH Wrote: Dunno, that's why grading and the scale is so hard. When I switched it from straight words = cash to a grading scale to reward those that put extra time in (e.g a lot of stats work but that doesn't show up in words), it worked but it's a lot more effort for the grader and sometimes effort of the writer isn't clear.

Tbh, the gfx gods can crank out a 7 or 8/10 in like 30 minutes max, even some closer to average sig makers as well. But that's also getting the same grade as what you spent 4-5 hours on. So how do you compensate for time? You can't really, which makes it hard to up the payment as you'll be over compensating some but at the current point you're under compensating some. What would we rather have?

Yea there definitely are people on here who can make a really good quality sig in a small amount of time but we're talking about a handful of people. Let's say an average person can make a 7-8/10 in ~1 hour, they're still making at most 825k whereas in the same amount of time they can probably make more than double that by writing. It's not so much about effort on a case by case basis but more about overall effort. Unless designing is part of your job, you can probably make much more much quicker by doing media.

kit · 04-16-2019, 02:39 PM

Yeet if you up the pay I’ll pump out 4 8’s in an hour and a half ez money

*slothfacekilla* · 04-16-2019, 02:43 PM

04-16-2019, 02:30 PMkarey Wrote: (I average ~ 40 layers)

Holy shit

karey · 04-16-2019, 02:54 PM

04-16-2019, 02:43 PMslothfacekilla Wrote:
04-16-2019, 02:30 PMkarey Wrote: (I average ~ 40 layers)

Holy shit

Actually going through some PSD..

40 is on the high end

It's really around 28-30

*slothfacekilla* · 04-16-2019, 02:59 PM

04-16-2019, 02:54 PMkarey Wrote:
04-16-2019, 02:43 PMslothfacekilla Wrote: Holy shit

Actually going through some PSD..

40 is on the high end

It's really around 28-30

Same reaction for me still haha. I uh... use a LOT less.

Also, I guess I forgot how amazed I was with the layers in the championship banner file you posted

JNH · 04-16-2019, 03:11 PM

04-16-2019, 02:59 PMslothfacekilla Wrote:
04-16-2019, 02:54 PMkarey Wrote: Actually going through some PSD..

40 is on the high end

It's really around 28-30

Same reaction for me still haha. I uh... use a LOT less.

Also, I guess I forgot how amazed I was with the layers in the championship banner file you posted

That tutorial is the SHL's equivalent of the Enlightenment.

***Tomen*** · 04-16-2019, 03:27 PM

there is something about GFX's grading I never got and that is why is there a cap on how many GFX you can submit for weekly grading? Would be weird to have a cap on media.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

kit · 04-16-2019, 03:30 PM

04-16-2019, 03:27 PMTomen Wrote: there is something about GFX's grading I never got and that is why is there a cap on how many GFX you can submit for weekly grading? Would be weird to have a cap on media.

I’ve been sayin this forever

*Carpy48* · 04-16-2019, 04:42 PM

I make most of my money by designing (and grading) sigs. That's because I really dislike writing - at least this kind of writing. And while it's not exactly a problem for me personally, keep in mind we have a lot of people here that aren't native English speakers (yes, me included) and for some it might actually be hard to write really long texts in English. I'm not talking about grammar or spelling, just writing in general.

I'm not a professional designer either, but I have some experience in PS and I often spend several hours on a sig like some others here. It takes some time to find out what sigs need to look like to get consistently high ratings and then you sometimes still only get a 6/10 for a sig that took hours to make. So I wouldn't be against a change in the pay scale or at least lifting the weekly submission limit.

*sköldpaddor* · 04-16-2019, 04:55 PM

04-16-2019, 04:42 PMCarpy48 Wrote: I'm not a professional designer either, but I have some experience in PS and I often spend several hours on a sig like some others here. It takes some time to find out what sigs need to look like to get consistently high ratings and then you sometimes still only get a 6/10 for a sig that took hours to make. So I wouldn't be against a change in the pay scale or at least lifting the weekly submission limit.

I agree with this - also not a professional designer nor do I have any design training whatsoever so it takes me a lot longer sometimes to figure out how to make things look nice, and there is a huuuuuge variation in what grade you get for the same amount of work because the different graders like different things (because they are human beings and have different taste which makes total sense).

I don't mind the cap on weekly submissions though just for practicality, because I know the graders already have their hands super full. If I have a particularly prolific week I can always just save some and submit them on a slower week. I feel like if people were submitting nine things all in one post that would just clog up the grading pipeline even more.

crutch · 04-16-2019, 05:07 PM

I've made it well known that I'm not at all a fan of the current grading scale to the GFX team, making it mandatory to have jersey changes to get a 9/10 on a signature or higher is a little obscene in my opinion, just because king had a boner for them doesn't mean that they are necessary to make good art.

to me, graphics grading should be primarily focused on rewarding users for techniques and creativity in their signatures, as well as what the final design looks like. if somebody is just starting out in photoshop or GIMP or what have you, bombing them with a 1/10 or a 3/10 doesn't do much to encourage them to continue with learning the program. If you make a solid effort and attempt to actually learn the program and incorporate different techniques into making your signatures (guys have reached out to me and I've helped them and that definitely gets noticed), then I think they should be rewarded.

sorry for the rant.

I think weekly submissions capped at 4 is reasonable, prevents people from dumping signatures they might have made for another league all at once. Plus, a user should never need more than 4 sig's worth of money per week so I think it's reasonable.

Eggy216 · 04-16-2019, 06:12 PM

04-16-2019, 05:07 PMligma Wrote: I've made it well known that I'm not at all a fan of the current grading scale to the GFX team, making it mandatory to have jersey changes to get a 9/10 on a signature or higher is a little obscene in my opinion, just because king had a boner for them doesn't mean that they are necessary to make good art.

to me, graphics grading should be primarily focused on rewarding users for techniques and creativity in their signatures, as well as what the final design looks like. if somebody is just starting out in photoshop or GIMP or what have you, bombing them with a 1/10 or a 3/10 doesn't do much to encourage them to continue with learning the program. If you make a solid effort and attempt to actually learn the program and incorporate different techniques into making your signatures (guys have reached out to me and I've helped them and that definitely gets noticed), then I think they should be rewarded.

sorry for the rant.

I think weekly submissions capped at 4 is reasonable, prevents people from dumping signatures they might have made for another league all at once. Plus, a user should never need more than 4 sig's worth of money per week so I think it's reasonable.

If you guys wanted to try coming up with a new rubric and sending it to me I'd be open to looking at a new one. In regards to graphics I tend to go with what you guys who know what's what say because I fully recognize I have 0 knowledge of graphics.

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