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Bruins10 · 04-20-2019, 06:05 PM

04-20-2019, 05:51 PMEaster Eggy Wrote:
04-20-2019, 05:33 PMRublic Wrote: I really like Ofer's Idea. We could even do something similar to the NHL/AHL where two SHL teams share an AHL team if we don't want to create a AHL equivalent for each team. This could also open more GM positions which could entice new users. I would probably make it max 2-3 seasons in SMJHL and then however long until you get called up to your SHL team by playing in the SSHL(Senddown Simulation Hockey League).

How many teams can we actually fill by going that route, though? We'd be fielding 6 player teams, even with two teams sharing one.

And then you risk the similar situation where players will be forced to be playing less minutes with less production

Dangles13 · 04-21-2019, 08:25 AM

Are there no team players in the SHL? Does nobody want a Nate MacKinnon on their team?

efiug · 04-21-2019, 10:48 AM

I think that just raising the TPE cap based on how many seasons you have played isn't really the answer, maybe a system with a higher cap in general and some way for GMs to designate players that can use a higher cap or whatever. There isn't really a difference between someone who is supposed to be the star player on the junior team and the 2nd year guys who have already hit the cap. Maybe allow one player to go 100 TPE over the cap and two players to go 50 TPE over or something like that. It allows players that are good to at least partially go over the cap and allows actives to gain a small advantage over capped inactives too. I think rookies would rather be a part of an active locker room on a team that is successful than have a super crazy amount of points.

This doesn't come with problems though because obviously there would have to be some rules on trading players if they are over the cap or if you want to pick someone else to use the extra cap too. Like maybe you get a team wide extra TPE cap of like 250 or something and you can spread it among your player and stuff. Then you can incentivize active players and allow star players to actually be better than their peers. Plus I think it would be pretty nice to stay active and gain TPE and be recognized as one of the best players on the team by your GM.

Troy_McClure03 · 04-21-2019, 11:29 AM

Keep the cap, close 4 jr teams, make all IAs that are over 2 seasons IA retire

*Otrebor13* · 04-21-2019, 11:54 AM

I think the issue with this is people want to have the best of both worlds. They want rookie production to be high enough to keep them active but they also want some sort of disparity between the rookies and the send downs who have spent a season or two in the SMJHL. I don’t think having both is possible.

Right now the current system is built to keep rookies happy and try to keep them active. That makes total sense, since without the continuous influx of rookies we wouldn’t be able to sustain either the SHL or SMJHL. The problem becomes you have second year players who are capped out at 350 and you have 3rd year send downs who have 600 TPE but have the identical stats as the second year, which kind of sucks for them.

Personally I really like the idea of a tiered system, it allows for players to somewhat have a distinction between each other so there’s still something to work for. For players spending 3-4 seasons in the J that means there are a couple of seasons of just banking TPE, which is also boring.

I saw this suggested in another thread a while back, but what if we increase scoring in the J? The juniors in hockey are extremely inflated, 3rd/4th year players get 100+ points in 60 games. We had 1 player break 50 points this season. I think you could implement a tiered system in the SMJHL, which would mimic the age disparity in players, and if you increase scoring it still allows rookies to see an increase in their production. I think that gives us the best of both worlds. I’m not sure if raising scoring is possible, but at least it would distinguish players from one another while still allowing rookies to put up decent numbers and not be demoralized when they only see themselves scoring 5 points in a season

***CampinKiller*** · 04-21-2019, 12:22 PM

Here’s a solution: don’t spend more than 2 seasons in juniors

In all seriousness though, the only way to satisfy both is to change sim engines to 2.0 or 2.1, which will allow more scoring. Sorry goalies

*Zoone16* · 04-21-2019, 12:50 PM

I think it was @O4L that showed increased shots and scoring without destroying goalies in another thread. Not sure what version of sths it was though.

efiug · 04-21-2019, 05:46 PM

If scoring in general goes up I think that would be nice, I think it is sorta ridiculous that only one player hit over 50 points last season, and if it is in a way that doesn't totally fuck over the goalies then there is literally no downside.

SlashACM · 04-21-2019, 06:35 PM

Join the nshl

***O4L*** · 04-21-2019, 06:58 PM

04-21-2019, 12:22 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Here’s a solution: don’t spend more than 2 seasons in juniors

In all seriousness though, the only way to satisfy both is to change sim engines to 2.0 or 2.1, which will allow more scoring. Sorry goalies

04-21-2019, 12:50 PMZoone16 Wrote: I think it was @O4L that showed increased shots and scoring without destroying goalies in another thread. Not sure what version of sths it was though.

Here is the test sims I did on 2.0 last season. With the right sliders, it's possible for goalies to get much better SVP than they currently get on 1.5 while still seeing a big increase in scoring. The trade-off that I noticed for the goalies was much more realistic SVPs at the cost of higher GAA's which is basically a flip from what it is right now.

"“HA HA! THIS GAME WILL NEVER END! I POSSESS THE SOUL OF EVERY GOALIE ON TEAM B!! CREW 4 LIFE!! SIGN WITH EDMONTON FOR THE CUP!!!” cackled Belial as he placed a Fedora on his head."
SMJHL Commisioner S17-S26
Calgary Dragons GM S14-S23

Tomasnz · 04-22-2019, 04:10 AM

04-20-2019, 02:19 PMMayuu Wrote: I agree something needs to change, I was very close to burning out cause there was no change in my player, even though I redistributed like crazy and bought the 12m build change.

I did not want to demand a call up just to see my player perform even worse with less ice time.

I think the first is a good point .agreed that not changing anything gets super boring fast .

I think the second is a massive misconseption. The idea that a player needs to be 900tpe before a player can contribute is not really that useful .
The Current rookie of the year got 29 points as a defensman (about 650), I think at least 5 of the top goalies last season were below 800.

Personally I think the second aspect is the main issue(s)
1. People like having high stats and don't want to step back as they jump up a league. While true and obvious, this is just unrealistic . If you were a star in the juniors chances are you will not be a star out of the gate in the seniors.
2. Teams could do a lot to even their line groupings and not prioritise super high tpe players on the top two lines as much. The difference between players in terms of stats is actually shockingly small especially if you compare a tightly built 750tpe to a 1200 that has had a chance to fill out secondaries. Imo a line full of actives shouldn't be getting less than 25% ice, if for nothing else than to manage the locker room better, and actually make room for those prospects.

Basically. People should be less scared about moving up.
And teams should do more to usefully include called up prospects in their lines.

Mayuu · 04-22-2019, 04:30 AM

04-22-2019, 04:10 AMTomasnz Wrote:
04-20-2019, 02:19 PMMayuu Wrote: I agree something needs to change, I was very close to burning out cause there was no change in my player, even though I redistributed like crazy and bought the 12m build change.

I did not want to demand a call up just to see my player perform even worse with less ice time.

I think the first is a good point .agreed that not changing anything gets super boring fast .

I think the second is a massive misconseption. The idea that a player needs to be 900tpe before a player can contribute is not really that useful .
The Current rookie of the year got 29 points as a defensman (about 650), I think at least 5 of the top goalies last season were below 800.

Personally I think the second aspect is the main issue(s)
1. People like having high stats and don't want to step back as they jump up a league. While true and obvious, this is just unrealistic . If you were a star in the juniors chances are you will not be a star out of the gate in the seniors.
2. Teams could do a lot to even their line groupings and not prioritise super high tpe players on the top two lines as much. The difference between players in terms of stats is actually shockingly small especially if you compare a tightly built 750tpe to a 1200 that has had a chance to fill out secondaries. Imo a line full of actives shouldn't be getting less than 25% ice, if for nothing else than to manage the locker room better, and actually make room for those prospects.

Basically. People should be less scared about moving up.
And teams should do more to usefully include called up prospects in their lines.

I agree but with my tests sims thats not how STSH works.

Put a 900 TPE forward on the top line of the strongest team versus the top line of the worst team and you'll see that the same player will perform way worse points wise on the better team. The 900 TPE player just gets way more opportunities on a weaker team due to being a leading player.

I don't think this have to be an issue though. It makes sense a stronk rookie makes a bigger impact on a weaker team, the same goes in SMJHL.
I don't think this is something we as a league should shy away from, I would not have minded playing third line my first rookie season of there was a need for it, in my case there wasn't.

My first year of SMJHL I started on third and got demoted to fourth, then I spent the next three sesson on the top line with various team mates. The last season we played a rookie center on my line.

I think it's wrong to sell big numbers and loads of ice time to rookies when that won't be the case in SHL. Where you will most likely play a season or two on the third line (depending on team)

RETIRED

Tomasnz · 04-22-2019, 04:34 AM

@Mayuu I think we are on the same page.

Mayuu · 04-22-2019, 05:18 AM

I'll say it one more time.

I think a tiered progression like @BDonini suggest is a good idea. I think there needs to be other venues for the rookies to shine if the league implements a tiered cap.

My suggestion is all-star tournament/prospect showcase tournaments for the rookies during or after the first season can be one of those, like @ArGarBarGar has done the last couple of seasons in preparation for the draft, I know many members has said how much fun those were.

This would allow to show your player in a different role or with different team mates and spice up your experience with your rookie player. East vs West could be a cool setup much like NHL all-star games.

WJC is a great venue for the send downs and if a tiered cap is implemented it would spice up WJC even more.

A tiered cap would also early on emulate how the progression in SHL looks,
as I think we need to setup members for the marathon instead of the sprint that causes so many players to burn out after they reach the SMJHL cap.

All in all I think that getting rookies hooked early on is important, I think that making the experience for the users who spend seasons as a send down stale is just as counter productive as making the rookie experience stale. A mix of both is needed.

RETIRED

Chris-McZehrl · 04-22-2019, 07:31 AM

I stay still with my opinion that some time you pay out too many TPE ... then for a short time less TPE ... and finally again more because that massive reddit Draft in S46!

with that issue you has now again very quickly members capped at 350 TPE and in the future with bad luck you have again problems with regression and so on!

a small word formula ...

first: hand out more TPE in comparison to the prior 10 Drafts = bad deal ... because the league was try all to shut down some TPE pay outs
second: the regression is a joke that a player can player a career over 25 seasons = this could happen for many players since S18
third: it was time to add 2 more expansion teams because over 80% of the SHL teams were full in the SHL or full with send downs + reddit Draft = even situation in my opinion ... for me we have now the same situation that some teams are full in the SHL or have a full send down pool + also many picks = bad situation again + also near next reddit draft
fourth: if you add 2 more SHL teams = less player in the SMJHL = more spots on the SMJHL teams = you wont need a new TPE Cap in the SMJHL
fifth: reduce this damn payout of TPE = also no new TPE Cap needed = better situation for all parts = for Regression + SMJHL TPE Cap + overall situation with many same builds in the SMJHL the first two season + also in SHL a better situation with more different builds = because we wouldnt have so many maxed out players
sixth: SHL problem with TPE capped situation = that is bad for the motivation if you know you could earn over 50 capped TPE but you cant claim them
seventh: too many uncapped TPE in SHL as pay out = less PTs with uncapped TPE = because on all predictions, weekend funtime and so on you also can earn uncapped TPE = TPE Expansion confirmed = cut some small PTs and make them for money or so (more effective for active members as result for Equipment buy and so on)

greetings from

Chris McZ

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