04-24-2019, 08:44 AMChris-McZehrl Wrote: many teams are stacked and that mean ... min 8 Forwards over 1000 TPE + 4 Defender over 1000 TPE
probably inactives also over 1000 TPE
if you read a bit higher my post about the next SHL Expansion (since the SHL S46 Reddit Draft / S45 SMJHL one ... killed the Expansion) then way more send downs would be called up and we have more spots in the SMJHL.
Give me data. How many teams are like that?
The one I'm on isn't.
Also. What's wrong with having actives on third lines not inactives?
Also. Why does everyone feel the need to talk about lines in tpe order. Build Combinations are far more important from what I can tell. Why not slot in the pass first rookie on the second line if you don't have a +1000 tpe player with that build.
04-24-2019, 08:23 AMluketd Wrote: 1st season is learning
2nd season is getting capped/enjoying/going for the cup
3rd season is for getting more tpe and the previous things
4th season is unbanking the past 2 seasons
Now there will be exceptions as people grow slower than some, so they may need an extra season in the smjhl. But it allows a quick turnaround that doesn’t screw over the SMJHL GM’s
In any league there will be competitiveness, you can’t get rid of it. But there’s always a cycle of SMJHL teams of building a good team then watch it burn by people leaving.
What I do personally as a gm is get the rookies ingrained into the culture of the LR, build the LR up with them. I tell the rookies that they won’t have a ton of points, but what they can see is the team doing well as well as an active LR environment that makes them excited and happy to be there. Sure a sim is great and it’s the reason why people are here, but a good LR makes people stay a lot more than how their player is in the sim. What I do is have them get excited for this season and next season, always having hope for the future.
From what I see analytically, is that once you get drafted in the SHL, depending on factors the # of people getting drafted to the #of people staying halves around 3-4 seasons into it.
Mayuu for our S43 draft class, we got drafted with 63 people, Now we have 28-35 people left active
For S44 there was about 28 or so people drafted that were active, now there is 10-15 people left.
Nice, yeah I agree with most of what you said!
Just a personal question, did you not get bored of banking TPE for two season?
Near the end kinda, but I the way I think of it, is that once I unbank I’m more SHL ready, because at that time, I was going to be on the 1st line, maybe it’s different when you know you’re going to be sheltered in minutes in the beginning
04-24-2019, 08:44 AMChris-McZehrl Wrote: many teams are stacked and that mean ... min 8 Forwards over 1000 TPE + 4 Defender over 1000 TPE
probably inactives also over 1000 TPE
if you read a bit higher my post about the next SHL Expansion (since the SHL S46 Reddit Draft / S45 SMJHL one ... killed the Expansion) then way more send downs would be called up and we have more spots in the SMJHL.
Give me data. How many teams are like that?
The one I'm on isn't.
Also. What's wrong with having actives on third lines not inactives?
Also. Why does everyone feel the need to talk about lines in tpe order. Build Combinations are far more important from what I can tell. Why not slot in the pass first rookie on the second line if you don't have a +1000 tpe player with that build.
I can't speak for every team, but there's rigorous line combinations test before each season. If a rookie on second line brings the best average result I'm very sure most GM's would play them there. It's not a matter of just throwing the highest TPE players on each line.
04-24-2019, 08:04 AMaaronwilson Wrote: I kind of like that SMJHL is about building smart and ditributing your TPE well, not just how much TPE you can hoard. I believe GOMHL has a similar concept.
Hence why I like the low cap.
I do believe, however, that people shouldn't spend more than 3 seasons in SMJHL.
Competitiveness should be the focus of the league. That's just more fun.
Thanks for your input!
Why 3 seasons though, how did you come to that conclusion?
Seems like 4th season is when most players are called up.
S45 class is at 500-750 tpe right now, that's at least 3rd line minutes on most teams.
Alternative solution - players should be allowed to stay down as long as their SHL team has 9 forwards/4 dmen/2 goalies with higher TPE but not more than 5 seasons (like now).
Inactive players can stay down for 3 seasons.
04-24-2019, 08:24 AMKatth Wrote: SMJHL is a league for the first gen rookies:
Yes, I agree 100%. It should be a learning place to prepare people for the SHL.
Rookie ice time:
Active players should always be prioritized over inactive players, but I do not believe that rookies should get more ice time. It's a sim after all. When you are called up to the SHL chances are you'll be playing 3rd line minutes for quite a long time also.
350 TPE cap is to low:
The TPE cap of 350 is fine. With the 350 cap the development of your player doesn't stand still. You can think ahead and plan accordingly to the TPE you are earning. Also with the 350 cap in place it will maintain a smaller gap between newly drafted players and send downs.
Competitiveness of the SMJHL should not be the focus of the league:
Hockey is competitive and as this is a hockey sim, the sim should be competitive too. It can't be learning place where things are being spoonfed, it shouldn't be too easy. Look at it like this generation of kids is growing up. Everything is handed to them, they aren't allowed to get hurt. When they are getting older they will face the harsh world that's called maturity. When a kid in school didn't perform well, you got a good talking to by your parents. Nowadays it's the teachers fault. Let's not be like that.
Spending to long time in the SMJHL is bad:
I agree and I think this is a responsibility for the SHL GM's as well as the player itself. SHL GM's need to really consider the flow of players that they are drafting. Giving everyone equal opportunity if they are active. Let's say you have 7 picks in a SHL draft and draft 7 players, but you know that in 3-4 seasons you only have room for 4 players. Some might say a luxury problem, but I don't see it that way. I see it as a lack of insight.
Interesting!
Quote:Active players should always be prioritized over inactive players, but I do not believe that rookies should get more ice time. It's a sim after all. When you are called up to the SHL chances are you'll be playing 3rd line minutes for quite a long time also.
Would you, if you were a GM play an active rookie over an inactive 350 TPE player? As you said it's hockey so competition is natural, but where does one draw the line?
Quote:Giving everyone equal opportunity if they are active. Let's say you have 7 picks in a SHL draft and draft 7 players, but you know that in 3-4 seasons you only have room for 4 players. Some might say a luxury problem, but I don't see it that way. I see it as a lack of insight.
Isn't this how it is in real life as well? When a NHL team drafts they don't just draft for their current needs, anything can happen between and during season. Who know's who might leave in FA or go inactive.
If your squad is full and looks to be full the upcoming season, giving away picks for free isn't something I'd ever do as a GM.
Quote:Would you, if you were a GM play an active rookie over an inactive 350 TPE player? As you said it's hockey so competition is natural, but where does one draw the line?
Yes, I would. Inactives should be used to fill roster spots. From bottom-up and not from top-down.
Quote:Isn't this how it is in real life as well? When a NHL team drafts they don't just draft for their current needs, anything can happen between and during season. Who know's who might leave in FA or go inactive.
If your squad is full and looks to be full the upcoming season, giving away picks for free isn't something I'd ever do as a GM.
You could always trade your picks for future picks. Let's say a team is in rebuild and you have a 2nd/3rd round pick you don't need. You trade them for future 1st or 2nd picks or you trade up in the draft and get a free t-shirt also. But I see your point. It's not an easy job being a good GM.
04-24-2019, 10:32 AM(This post was last modified: 04-24-2019, 10:42 AM by Mayuu.)
04-24-2019, 08:56 AMaaronwilson Wrote:
04-24-2019, 08:09 AMMayuu Wrote: Thanks for your input!
Why 3 seasons though, how did you come to that conclusion?
Seems like 4th season is when most players are called up.
S45 class is at 500-750 tpe right now, that's at least 3rd line minutes on most teams.
Alternative solution - players should be allowed to stay down as long as their SHL team has 9 forwards/4 dmen/2 goalies with higher TPE but not more than 5 seasons (like now).
Inactive players can stay down for 3 seasons.
Average of all lines across SHL
1st line 1189
2nd line 989
3rd line 657
1st pair 1219
2nd pair 986
3rd pair 536
Starter Goalie 1005
Median
1st line 1230
2nd line 970
3rd line 635
1st pair 1233
2nd pair 930
3rd pair 531
Starter Goalie 1056
here's a link to all the SHL team's lines with average TPE of each line
04-24-2019, 11:41 AM(This post was last modified: 04-24-2019, 11:47 AM by awils13.)
04-24-2019, 10:32 AMMayuu Wrote:
04-24-2019, 08:56 AMaaronwilson Wrote: Seems like 4th season is when most players are called up.
S45 class is at 500-750 tpe right now, that's at least 3rd line minutes on most teams.
Alternative solution - players should be allowed to stay down as long as their SHL team has 9 forwards/4 dmen/2 goalies with higher TPE but not more than 5 seasons (like now).
Inactive players can stay down for 3 seasons.
Average of all lines across SHL
1st line 1189
2nd line 989
3rd line 657
1st pair 1219
2nd pair 986
3rd pair 536
Starter Goalie 1005
Median
1st line 1230
2nd line 970
3rd line 635
1st pair 1233
2nd pair 930
3rd pair 531
Starter Goalie 1056
here's a link to all the SHL team's lines with average TPE of each line
Right, so if I'm interpreting this correctly, the majority of 4th-year players have enough tpe to play on a 3rd line/pair in SHL. That doesn't seem too bad.
Regarding SMJHL rookies: GMs can play a rookie over a capped inactive but it should be entirely up to them imo.
For me the prospect showcase was fun, my first season in SMJHL not so much. Especially the first half because I was below 200 tpe and my player wasn't scoring at all, even though I played like 20 minutes a game. (edit: I enjoyed being in our locker room though, so that's an important part of retaining new users as well).
Maybe we can create a 3rd league that would run beginning after the draft and until game 30 of the regular season. Similar to the prospect showcase.
GMs would have the option to send their rookies to this league or play them in SMJHL.
I know something similar have been suggested before, this is just my take on it.
Right, so if I'm interpreting this correctly, the majority of 4th-year players have enough tpe to play on a 3rd line/pair in SHL. That doesn't seem too bad.
Regarding SMJHL rookies: GMs can play a rookie over a capped inactive but it should be entirely up to them imo.
For me the prospect showcase was fun, my first season in SMJHL not so much. Especially the first half because I was below 200 tpe and my player wasn't scoring at all, even though I played like 20 minutes a game.
Maybe we can create a 3rd league that would run beginning after the draft and until game 30 of the regular season. Similar to the prospect showcase.
GMs would have the option to send their rookies to this league or play them in SMJHL.
I know something similar have been suggested before, this is just my take on it.
this option was about a Farm League with min 6 teams (HO would looking for this min number)
also 350 or 400 TPE as min TPE.
SMJHL would then stay at 350 TPE
BUT
Inactive Signings cant be over 200 TPE and for the Farm League from 201 to 350 or 400 TPE
Challenge Cup Wins:
S18 - Seattle Riot (with Chris McZehrl)*
S23 - New England Wolfpack (with Chris McZehrl)*
S27 - Calgary Dragons (with VLAD McZehrl)
S34 - Manhattan Rage (with VLAD McZehrl)
S37 - Winnipeg Jets (with VLAD McZehrl)
S46 - Buffalo Stampede (with GOD McZehrl)*
*first ever Challenge Cup of Franchise History
Four Star Cup Wins:
S24 - Vancouver Whalers (with VLAD McZehrl)
S39 - St. Louis Scarecrows (with GOD McZehrl)
"The SMJHL's main purpose is to introduce the first generation members to the site and how it works, from how to apply your TPE to how to gain money. This league is where you are supposed to learn it all.
This to setup the user for the real deal, the SHL."
Id say this is more of the responsibility of Juniors GM's, Mentors & HO; a league (SMJHL) doesn't introduce people to the fundamentals of the site nor does it teach them how to apply TPE, that comes from asking questions, GMs reaching out and offering advice, posting guidelines and how-to's also staying up to date with rookies making sure they aren't confused and are generally enjoying themselves the SMJHL more or less prepares people for the cruelty that is STHS and gets them used to reading idex's, ect. In the GOMHL you have one league, the "league" doesn't teach you anything that comes from the quality members, GMs, mentors, teammates and HO
Rookie ice time:
Actives over inactive, I get that for sure although are you playing a 160 active rookie over a capped inactive? competition matters at the end of the day and rookies understand that, it gives actives something to work towards "I want to improve so I move up in the lines" I like giving guys this fire and 9 times out of 10 I see them rise to the occasion and they are replacing higher TPE inactives in no time at all and enjoying the story line along the way. Its not "welcome to the SMJHL here have first line minutes, dont worry you dont have to work for it"... there is nothing to learn there imo. You earn your ice time its the same everywhere its makes sense to me and should be that way. There are dozens of other ways to keep a rookie active giving them top minutes shouldn't have to be one of them that being said I think there is a good balance that needs to be met and as long as your players are happy are you really doing anything wrong?
350 TPE cap is to low:
I have bounced back and forth between raising the cap or keeping it, its hard to say how it would affect things without seeing concrete evidence. I think you may end up with rookies spending more time playing less minutes do to the now larger tpe gap between rookies and 2nd or 3rd year players. I like the increase in build diversity and I like the idea of giving juniors more stuff to spend tpe on but in the end I think this goes against most peoples concern of rookies not playing enough (which I dont think is a concern personally)
Competitiveness of the SMJHL should not be the focus of the league:
100% it should be part of the league I dont know if its necessarily the "main" focus I think that's an assumption of how each team feels. The main focus to me is making sure my guys are having fun period always has been and always will be. I think preforming well & winning cups are just a result of doing that and keeping people around and engaged. I'm fine with everyone making the playoffs I think that does help make the off season a little more bearable and creates some good story lines yet at the same time I understand how shitty it would be to be knocked out of the playoffs by a team that probably shouldn't have even made it because you know... STHS lol.
Spending to long time in the SMJHL is bad:
I never thought this was a bad thing I remember when Kez was SMJHL Commish he actually wanted to make lifetime SMJHL'ers a thing, not sure if he still feels the same way but I loved that idea, I guess it depends if people consider the SMJHL to be more like the CHL or the AHL. I really like the idea of being able to stay as long as you want but maybe after 5 seasons you hit "junior regression" which is more harsh then the SHL regression encouraging people to make the leap.
At the end of the day rookies come in and want to help the "Team" not themselves, I think that "I need to be top scorer" mindset is way more rare then the "I want to help my team win a cup" mindset. Hockey is a team sport at the end of the day. Rookies learn and grow and stay active through teammates, the LR, & GMs being active and diligent, ultimately people want to be around a winning culture. Winning cups is not the main focus of a team nor should it be, but when everyone does their job right the result is such. The goal isn't to win numerous cups in a row either its to be competitive and keep your guys happy the later is only a result of everyone on a team doing their jobs to the best of their ability.
04-24-2019, 12:22 PM(This post was last modified: 04-24-2019, 12:22 PM by DrunkenTeddy.)
04-24-2019, 12:07 PMTML99 Wrote: SMJHL is a league for the first gen rookies:
"The SMJHL's main purpose is to introduce the first generation members to the site and how it works, from how to apply your TPE to how to gain money. This league is where you are supposed to learn it all.
This to setup the user for the real deal, the SHL."
Id say this is more of the responsibility of Juniors GM's, Mentors & HO; a league (SMJHL) doesn't introduce people to the fundamentals of the site nor does it teach them how to apply TPE, that comes from asking questions, GMs reaching out and offering advice, posting guidelines and how-to's also staying up to date with rookies making sure they aren't confused and are generally enjoying themselves the SMJHL more or less prepares people for the cruelty that is STHS and gets them used to reading idex's, ect. In the GOMHL you have one league, the "league" doesn't teach you anything that comes from the quality members, GMs, mentors, teammates and HO
Rookie ice time:
Actives over inactive, I get that for sure although are you playing a 160 active rookie over a capped inactive? competition matters at the end of the day and rookies understand that, it gives actives something to work towards "I want to improve so I move up in the lines" I like giving guys this fire and 9 times out of 10 I see them rise to the occasion and they are replacing higher TPE inactives in no time at all and enjoying the story line along the way. Its not "welcome to the SMJHL here have first line minutes, dont worry you dont have to work for it"... there is nothing to learn there imo. You earn your ice time its the same everywhere its makes sense to me and should be that way. There are dozens of other ways to keep a rookie active giving them top minutes shouldn't have to be one of them that being said I think there is a good balance that needs to be met and as long as your players are happy are you really doing anything wrong?
I agree wholeheartedly with these statements, ice time shouldn't be just handed to someone because they are new to the site, but they should get playing time if they are active. If someone is active and working hard to earn TPE they should be rewarded (regardless of if they are new to the site or not). The whole idea of the SHL is a hockey experience, the SMJHL HO shouldn't act like each player's mom demanding more ice time for their sweet little babies, those players should work on earning a bigger role by updating and gaining TPE. If highly active players are being pushed to really tiny roles it's likely because the league is overcrowded. To solve that I'd say expand the SHL again.
Different people have different opinions on what the SMJHL is. I've heard people say that it's just a stepping stone to the SHL and that you shouldn't waste a long time there. I've heard others who love being able to become a great player in one season and have a chance at awards and such. I don't think we really need to define it because it's different for each individual.
As for the TPE cap, I like the idea of raising it to 400, maybe 450. Players suddenly becoming massively better when they reach the SHL is a strange thing, so raising the cap a bit makes it a smaller bump, but I wouldn't want to raise it so far that newbies feel too far behind.
SMJHL GM S30-S34
Co-GM currently
3 players in the SMJHL
Marek Vyskoc (S18-S19)
Barak Obrana (S27-S30)
Dionyz Vyskoc (S35-S38)
(All of this in my opinion of course)
SMJHL is NOT a league for the first gen rookies
It is not, however it's impact and importance as being the first league is immense and a very important fact taht should always be considered. Generally, concerns regarding this are fair and do not go about neglecting recreates anyway, which I appreciate.
Rookie ice time should NOT be prioritized
Prioritized is an odd word to use, so under that wording I'd say no. Teams should still make the best lines they can, however thanks to the cap and parity of the league you can have 3 or 4 lines with equal play time be fine, and generally if a line is active that's how it works.
350 TPE cap is NOT too low:
I didn't have an opinion on this until I hit this thread actually.
I used to not care, I couldn't see why someone would want raise the cap nor why someone would want to keep it at 350.
But alas, I don't think banking is an issue and that parity is an incredible tool that the SMJHL has over the SHL. You still can do very well at 350, just as one can as a rookie sometimes, so it's fine the way it is I think.
Competitiveness of the SMJHL should be the focus of the league
I've said parity a dozen times and I helped bring back the "all teams make it" format, so my stance is fairly obvious. It's just generally more entertaining to play in, leave the more realistic and "rewarding" system as some people would call it to the big leagues, there's no point to add it in the SMJHL.
Spending long time in the SMJHL is good
I mean, I wouldn't say "good" but I wouldn't say it's bad either.
The SMJHL is my favorite league on the site to play in, and I dislike the SHL
Not to mention, players shouldn't be thrown out into the SHL only when they've just started as I did with my first player. I was so disheartened having left my favorite team that was doing well for a team I was a 3rd and 4th liner for and doing nothing. Had I stayed in the SMJHL for another season or two, I would've had a very different career.
4 seasons is the max for an unwaived active, and that's plenty, so I feel that rule is perfect.
MWHazard Wrote:i'll playwith anyone
playing with my teammates is part of the intangibles I bring to the table
i play with them a lot.
they didn't like it at first
but after a while, it just felt normal
Justice,Sep 18 2016, 02:09 PM Wrote:4-0 and 0-4 aren't that different tbh
McJesus - Today at 10:38 PM Wrote:FIRE EGGY
HIRE ARTY
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Seattle Riot (with Chris McZehrl)*
Calgary Dragons (with VLAD McZehrl)
Manhattan Rage (with VLAD McZehrl)
Winnipeg Jets (with VLAD McZehrl)
Vancouver Whalers (with VLAD McZehrl)
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