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Obsidian311 · 04-24-2019, 12:45 PM

04-24-2019, 11:35 AMAcsolap Wrote:
04-24-2019, 10:33 AMObsidian311 Wrote: I will say the first gen in my household is having tons of fun at 7 minutes per game.

/s

Why you leave anchorage discord tho?

Been gone since 45. Didn't mean to purge it when I purged a lot of others. Never thought to ask for an invite back

Chris-McZehrl · 04-24-2019, 12:49 PM

small note of the name SMJHL

Simulation Major? JUNIOR Hockey League

former name NWJHL

North Western JUNIOR Hockey League

in our Case the Junior means to 100% first gen

this huge send down thingy started with the S20 Draft class what I know! before you had 50% stay in SHL and 50% are send downs

small survey about my players:

Chris McZ arrived S7 in the NWJHL and was drafted S8 in the SHL and did stay in the SHL
VLAD McZ arrived S23 in the SMJHL and was drafted S24 in the SHL, there my player had after the 2nd season 3 games because of a player punishment in the SHL after that back to the SMJHL. after the 2nd send down season VLAD came up as 3rd liner
GOD McZ arrived S39 in the SMJHL and was drafted S40 in the SHL, S42 I had my first SHL Season so again 2 send down season

and now?

***Ace*** · 04-24-2019, 12:55 PM

Speaking as someone who has never been a SMJHL GM and exclusively a SHL GM, I know my perspective on this will be different than most. The SMJHL’s sole purpose (in my opinion) is to provide an environment to introduce new players to the site. It’s a “training wheels league” that is meant to prepare these players for the real thing – the SHL. We need to make the SMJHL a better environment for first gen and first season players. We need to make sure that while we accommodate these young players, a degree of competitiveness is still needed to ensure they’re getting the true (although introductory) SHL experience to keep them involved.

Look at it from this perspective – if you went to a player on a team that’s the heavy favorite for the Memorial Cup and asked them “Hey player, I know you’re the top line center on X team, but we’ve got a 4th line spot open on the Ottawa Senators. Are you in?” 99.9% of the time, that player will drop everything they’re doing and jump into the NHL to prove they can play at the biggest stage in the world.

I know it’s not fun being a 4th line and 3rd line player in a sim league where you want to be the best, but there’s been countless times where players have prioritized their SMJHL clubs and the chance at Four Star Cups over the improvement of their SHL club. In the grand scheme of things, Four Star Cups are completely irrelevant and 3+ seasons in the SMJHL only hurt your player’s legacy in the long run if your player is ready to make the jump. Even if you come up as a rookie with 400 TPE, you’re playing at the highest league possible and earning points that count towards your career totals. Who cares that you won’t win the Jesster Trophy?

I know the first locker room you get into with your player becomes a family. I get that, and I love that about the SMJHL. It’s no different than real life. Those bonds you make in Juniors stay with a player. There’s a reason why the NHL guys still are buddies with their old teammates. There just has to be more incentive to play at the SHL level, not try to strong-arm or guilt a GM into keeping you down another couple of seasons if there’s a hole at the SHL level.

Chris-McZehrl · 04-24-2019, 01:10 PM

04-24-2019, 12:55 PMAce Wrote: Speaking as someone who has never been a SMJHL GM and exclusively a SHL GM, I know my perspective on this will be different than most. The SMJHL’s sole purpose (in my opinion) is to provide an environment to introduce new players to the site. It’s a “training wheels league” that is meant to prepare these players for the real thing – the SHL. We need to make the SMJHL a better environment for first gen and first season players. We need to make sure that while we accommodate these young players, a degree of competitiveness is still needed to ensure they’re getting the true (although introductory) SHL experience to keep them involved.

Look at it from this perspective – if you went to a player on a team that’s the heavy favorite for the Memorial Cup and asked them “Hey player, I know you’re the top line center on X team, but we’ve got a 4th line spot open on the Ottawa Senators. Are you in?” 99.9% of the time, that player will drop everything they’re doing and jump into the NHL to prove they can play at the biggest stage in the world.

I know it’s not fun being a 4th line and 3rd line player in a sim league where you want to be the best, but there’s been countless times where players have prioritized their SMJHL clubs and the chance at Four Star Cups over the improvement of their SHL club. In the grand scheme of things, Four Star Cups are completely irrelevant and 3+ seasons in the SMJHL only hurt your player’s legacy in the long run if your player is ready to make the jump. Even if you come up as a rookie with 400 TPE, you’re playing at the highest league possible and earning points that count towards your career totals. Who cares that you won’t win the Jesster Trophy?

I know the first locker room you get into with your player becomes a family. I get that, and I love that about the SMJHL. It’s no different than real life. Those bonds you make in Juniors stay with a player. There’s a reason why the NHL guys still are buddies with their old teammates. There just has to be more incentive to play at the SHL level, not try to strong-arm or guilt a GM into keeping you down another couple of seasons if there’s a hole at the SHL level.

very good example!

we must think about the league as base and not for every single member or SMJHL GM! we see all the time that many members leave and we must really analyze the reason for that. the biggest part for the first gen players is a bad role in their very first season. On the other way we must also make sure that members be happy and interested if they are capped. Not all are like Mayuu and starting plan is their head about the future build. For that you have also many experienced members on the site/team/.....

The most know that I am looking just for the best of the league and for me it means always SHL, SMJHL and IIHF. WJC was a good start for lower TPE national players to get some interesting things to see about their play.

My goal for seasons is now to figure something out for the send downs and the juniors! this week I saw some really interesting options how we (as league and community) could handle it and save the league for decades (season based).

what is happen in the last 5-7 seasons in the SHL with send downs?
#1 - they want to stay down because they prefer help the SMJHL Team over the SHL team because of limited minutes
#2 - some want to save more TPE to be a top tier rookie for the season (700-900 TPE)
#3 - some get asked again and again and again and again to stay and the please that they tell this to the SHL GM
#4 - they go inactive
#5 - they went semi-active
#6 - they will lose many of possible SHL years for the SHL (Esa Anrikkanen as example was drafted in 18 and started in S18 in the SHL)
#7 - because of losing many years of possible SHL years (2-4 seasons) they also lose possible top stats for their careers because after the 10th season the regression start (ok its a joke but still regression and later its a mess with regression with over 20%)

**.bojo** · 04-24-2019, 01:20 PM

My quick hits

Raise cap to 400. Tpe easier to get today than when cap was introduced. 50 more won't change too much.

Players should expect to stay down. But 4 seasons probably too much.

Ice time should be earned. It shouldn't feel boring or unjust to build your player to be worthy of first line.

Mayuu · 04-24-2019, 01:24 PM

04-24-2019, 01:10 PMChris-McZehrl Wrote:
04-24-2019, 12:55 PMAce Wrote: Speaking as someone who has never been a SMJHL GM and exclusively a SHL GM, I know my perspective on this will be different than most. The SMJHL’s sole purpose (in my opinion) is to provide an environment to introduce new players to the site. It’s a “training wheels league” that is meant to prepare these players for the real thing – the SHL. We need to make the SMJHL a better environment for first gen and first season players. We need to make sure that while we accommodate these young players, a degree of competitiveness is still needed to ensure they’re getting the true (although introductory) SHL experience to keep them involved.

Look at it from this perspective – if you went to a player on a team that’s the heavy favorite for the Memorial Cup and asked them “Hey player, I know you’re the top line center on X team, but we’ve got a 4th line spot open on the Ottawa Senators. Are you in?” 99.9% of the time, that player will drop everything they’re doing and jump into the NHL to prove they can play at the biggest stage in the world.

I know it’s not fun being a 4th line and 3rd line player in a sim league where you want to be the best, but there’s been countless times where players have prioritized their SMJHL clubs and the chance at Four Star Cups over the improvement of their SHL club. In the grand scheme of things, Four Star Cups are completely irrelevant and 3+ seasons in the SMJHL only hurt your player’s legacy in the long run if your player is ready to make the jump. Even if you come up as a rookie with 400 TPE, you’re playing at the highest league possible and earning points that count towards your career totals. Who cares that you won’t win the Jesster Trophy?

I know the first locker room you get into with your player becomes a family. I get that, and I love that about the SMJHL. It’s no different than real life. Those bonds you make in Juniors stay with a player. There’s a reason why the NHL guys still are buddies with their old teammates. There just has to be more incentive to play at the SHL level, not try to strong-arm or guilt a GM into keeping you down another couple of seasons if there’s a hole at the SHL level.

very good example!

we must think about the league as base and not for every single member or SMJHL GM! we see all the time that many members leave and we must really analyze the reason for that. the biggest part for the first gen players is a bad role in their very first season. On the other way we must also make sure that members be happy and interested if they are capped. Not all are like Mayuu and starting plan is their head about the future build. For that you have also many experienced members on the site/team/.....

The most know that I am looking just for the best of the league and for me it means always SHL, SMJHL and IIHF. WJC was a good start for lower TPE national players to get some interesting things to see about their play.

My goal for seasons is now to figure something out for the send downs and the juniors! this week I saw some really interesting options how we (as league and community) could handle it and save the league for decades (season based).

what is happen in the last 5-7 seasons in the SHL with send downs?
#1 - they want to stay down because they prefer help the SMJHL Team over the SHL team because of limited minutes
#2 - some want to save more TPE to be a top tier rookie for the season (700-900 TPE)
#3 - some get asked again and again and again and again to stay and the please that they tell this to the SHL GM
#4 - they go inactive
#5 - they went semi-active
#6 - they will lose many of possible SHL years for the SHL (Esa Anrikkanen as example was drafted in 18 and started in S18 in the SHL)
#7 - because of losing many years of possible SHL years (2-4 seasons) they also lose possible top stats for their careers because after the 10th season the regression start (ok its a joke but still regression and later its a mess with regression with over 20%)

I agree with some of this, but don't think everyone wants to be a HOF player or top some statistics. I played down that long cause I love my crew in the Falcons and WBF always reassure me that they can call me up if I want but it won't make or break buffalo's season.

I think all members wants to feel like their player is useful, some members feel like they will be useful for thier SHL team early on, some people don't.

RETIRED

Mayuu · 04-24-2019, 01:29 PM

04-24-2019, 12:55 PMAce Wrote: Speaking as someone who has never been a SMJHL GM and exclusively a SHL GM, I know my perspective on this will be different than most. The SMJHL’s sole purpose (in my opinion) is to provide an environment to introduce new players to the site. It’s a “training wheels league” that is meant to prepare these players for the real thing – the SHL. We need to make the SMJHL a better environment for first gen and first season players. We need to make sure that while we accommodate these young players, a degree of competitiveness is still needed to ensure they’re getting the true (although introductory) SHL experience to keep them involved.

Look at it from this perspective – if you went to a player on a team that’s the heavy favorite for the Memorial Cup and asked them “Hey player, I know you’re the top line center on X team, but we’ve got a 4th line spot open on the Ottawa Senators. Are you in?” 99.9% of the time, that player will drop everything they’re doing and jump into the NHL to prove they can play at the biggest stage in the world.

I know it’s not fun being a 4th line and 3rd line player in a sim league where you want to be the best, but there’s been countless times where players have prioritized their SMJHL clubs and the chance at Four Star Cups over the improvement of their SHL club. In the grand scheme of things, Four Star Cups are completely irrelevant and 3+ seasons in the SMJHL only hurt your player’s legacy in the long run if your player is ready to make the jump. Even if you come up as a rookie with 400 TPE, you’re playing at the highest league possible and earning points that count towards your career totals. Who cares that you won’t win the Jesster Trophy?

I know the first locker room you get into with your player becomes a family. I get that, and I love that about the SMJHL. It’s no different than real life. Those bonds you make in Juniors stay with a player. There’s a reason why the NHL guys still are buddies with their old teammates. There just has to be more incentive to play at the SHL level, not try to strong-arm or guilt a GM into keeping you down another couple of seasons if there’s a hole at the SHL level.

I see where you are coming from, this is a simulation with a setup much like the NHL
The SMJHL does not feel like a AHL comparison though. As a rookie you earn less as a SHL player then your first season for instance. For a AHL player it's also the consideration of a big big paycheck.

Id say the SMJHL is more like the European leagues, competitive but with NHL out clauses in every contract.

Maybe it's cause I'm European that I value my first club and stay loyal, maybe it's because I'm so grateful when NHL clubs sends Swedish prospects back to thier team to develop instead of stashing them in AHL. I can't tell if it's my bias.

I don't see the SMJHL as training wheels leauge, I feel it's just as important and on par as SHL

RETIRED

***Ace*** · 04-24-2019, 01:34 PM

04-24-2019, 01:29 PMMayuu Wrote:
04-24-2019, 12:55 PMAce Wrote: Speaking as someone who has never been a SMJHL GM and exclusively a SHL GM, I know my perspective on this will be different than most. The SMJHL’s sole purpose (in my opinion) is to provide an environment to introduce new players to the site. It’s a “training wheels league” that is meant to prepare these players for the real thing – the SHL. We need to make the SMJHL a better environment for first gen and first season players. We need to make sure that while we accommodate these young players, a degree of competitiveness is still needed to ensure they’re getting the true (although introductory) SHL experience to keep them involved.

Look at it from this perspective – if you went to a player on a team that’s the heavy favorite for the Memorial Cup and asked them “Hey player, I know you’re the top line center on X team, but we’ve got a 4th line spot open on the Ottawa Senators. Are you in?” 99.9% of the time, that player will drop everything they’re doing and jump into the NHL to prove they can play at the biggest stage in the world.

I know it’s not fun being a 4th line and 3rd line player in a sim league where you want to be the best, but there’s been countless times where players have prioritized their SMJHL clubs and the chance at Four Star Cups over the improvement of their SHL club. In the grand scheme of things, Four Star Cups are completely irrelevant and 3+ seasons in the SMJHL only hurt your player’s legacy in the long run if your player is ready to make the jump. Even if you come up as a rookie with 400 TPE, you’re playing at the highest league possible and earning points that count towards your career totals. Who cares that you won’t win the Jesster Trophy?

I know the first locker room you get into with your player becomes a family. I get that, and I love that about the SMJHL. It’s no different than real life. Those bonds you make in Juniors stay with a player. There’s a reason why the NHL guys still are buddies with their old teammates. There just has to be more incentive to play at the SHL level, not try to strong-arm or guilt a GM into keeping you down another couple of seasons if there’s a hole at the SHL level.

I see where you are coming from, this is a simulation with a setup much like the NHL
The SMJHL does not feel like a AHL comparison though. As a rookie you earn less as a SHL player then your first season for instance. For a AHL player it's also the consideration of a big big paycheck.

Id say the SMJHL is more like the European leagues, competitive but with NHL out clauses in every contract.

Maybe it's cause I'm European that I value my first club and stay loyal, maybe it's because I'm so grateful when NHL clubs sends Swedish prospects back to thier team to develop instead of stashing them in AHL. I can't tell if it's my bias.

I don't see the SMJHL as training wheels leauge, I feel it's just as important and on par as SHL

I’m not comparing it to the AHL, I’m comparing it to the CHL.

I agree that there needs to be more of an incentive to playing at the SHL level, but that’d include a full development process overhaul at the SMJHL and SHL level and I don’t think HO has an appetite to do that.

Mayuu · 04-24-2019, 01:36 PM

04-24-2019, 01:34 PMAce Wrote:
04-24-2019, 01:29 PMMayuu Wrote: I see where you are coming from, this is a simulation with a setup much like the NHL
The SMJHL does not feel like a AHL comparison though. As a rookie you earn less as a SHL player then your first season for instance. For a AHL player it's also the consideration of a big big paycheck.

Id say the SMJHL is more like the European leagues, competitive but with NHL out clauses in every contract.

Maybe it's cause I'm European that I value my first club and stay loyal, maybe it's because I'm so grateful when NHL clubs sends Swedish prospects back to thier team to develop instead of stashing them in AHL. I can't tell if it's my bias.

I don't see the SMJHL as training wheels leauge, I feel it's just as important and on par as SHL
I’m not comparing it to the AHL, I’m comparing it to the CHL.

Oh, I know nothing about how CHL works, only that they score a lot.

RETIRED

***Ace*** · 04-24-2019, 01:40 PM

04-24-2019, 01:36 PMMayuu Wrote:
04-24-2019, 01:34 PMAce Wrote: I’m not comparing it to the AHL, I’m comparing it to the CHL.

Oh, I know nothing about how CHL works, only that they score a lot.

CHL is just like SMJHL, but is composed of three separate Juniors leagues, the OHL, QMJHL and WHL. Each of these players are drafted and developed by their franchise and are NHL draft eligible. They can even be drafted to an NHL franchise and return to their junior club, even after signing an NHL Entry Level Contract.

The clubs send the prospects back to their Juniors club when they’re determined to not be ready for the NHL/can crack their roster. That’s what the SMJHL is supposed to be.

EuroCap · 04-24-2019, 01:44 PM

If SHL GMs expect to keep players in the SMJHL for 4 seasons. I mean seriously that is atrocious and shouldn't happen. Then we may have to take a look at when regressions starts. Back in the day it was 1 or 2 seasons. I know the amount of players has changed, but still this is a "development league" not a "minor league" and if players have to stay for 4 seasons, then it isn't what it was meant to be.

Also, if you are a SHL GM and expect my guy to spend 4 years in the SMJHL, then don't draft me because I am not doing that. I would rather leave again.

gordieboom · 04-24-2019, 01:47 PM

I’d say. Fix the salary structure, ‘problem’ solved. A senddown should earn less then a player playing in the SHL, let’s say 25% of his contract. That will certainly push some players towards playing in the SHL.

That will help the SHL, but i think it is also important to have an active SMJHL...

Mayuu · 04-24-2019, 01:48 PM

04-24-2019, 01:40 PMAce Wrote:
04-24-2019, 01:36 PMMayuu Wrote: Oh, I know nothing about how CHL works, only that they score a lot.

CHL is just like SMJHL, but is composed of three separate Juniors leagues, the OHL, QMJHL and WHL. Each of these players are drafted and developed by their franchise and are NHL draft eligible. They can even be drafted to an NHL franchise and return to their junior club, even after signing an NHL Entry Level Contract.

The clubs send the prospects back to their Juniors club when they’re determined to not be ready for the NHL/can crack their roster. That’s what the SMJHL is supposed to be.

Yeah so pretty much like the deal NHL has with the Swedish and Finnish league.

If we want to truly emulate that relationship (with most players getting called up after second season in J) we need to expand the SHL again imo. SHL and SMJHL were pretty clogged straight after S43 reddit recruitment. And even more so after the S46.

RETIRED

kit · 04-24-2019, 02:46 PM

Ive been one of the biggest arguers for a lot fo these points so i guess ill give my opinion.

I thinka nyone whos been around for a while agrees that the smjhl is for the new members, its a way to get them hooked on the site before they get to experience the fun that is the actual SHL.

I dont think rookie ice time should be prioritiezed over send downs or anything, but i think that actives should 100% be played over inactives during the regular season, reward people for their work, and if your team is stacked to the brim with capped players, find a way to give your rookies some extra ice time imo.

I really dont care about the cap, but a higher cap means that people stay down longer which is bad imo.

The focus of the league is and should be development, and keeping new members around. Does that mean you cant want to win? no, thats part of keeping members around, but you should never, as a gm, be sacrificing your players excitement for the league or enjoyment of the league for a couple wins. If someone comes to you and asks if they can get traded cuz they arent having fun, you trade them, even if its a suboptimal trade, because its a development league.

Spending a long time in the smjhl is bad because it creates logjams. The new members see the send downs and want to be them in their second season, what happens when your top 2 lines are already capped players? Now these newer members have to play bad ice time because of logjams and shit, idk its stupid, play 2 seasons, 3 if you have to and no more.

*Katth* · 04-24-2019, 03:26 PM

04-24-2019, 01:20 PM.bojo Wrote: My quick hits

Raise cap to 400. Tpe easier to get today than when cap was introduced. 50 more won't change too much.

Players should expect to stay down. But 4 seasons probably too much.

Ice time should be earned. It shouldn't feel boring or unjust to build your player to be worthy of first line.

If 50 TPE don't matter much, than why raise it?

S50 Challenge Cup Finals Game 7
[Image: gNFVjT6.png]

Poll: Agree/Dissagree You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
SMJHL is a league for the first gen rookies	14.81%	44	14.81%
SMJHL is NOT a league for the first gen rookies	4.38%	13	4.38%
Rookie ice time should be prioritized	10.77%	32	10.77%
Rookie ice time should NOT be prioritized	8.08%	24	8.08%
350 TPE cap is to low	10.77%	32	10.77%
350 TPE cap is NOT to low	10.10%	30	10.10%
Competitiveness of the SMJHL should be the focus of the league	10.44%	31	10.44%
Competitiveness of the SMJHL should NOT be the focus of the league	10.10%	30	10.10%
Spending long time in the SMJHL is good	7.74%	23	7.74%
Spending long time in the SMJHL is bad	12.79%	38	12.79%
Total		297 vote(s)	100%

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