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+---- Forum: Championship Week (https://simulationhockey.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=375)
+---- Thread: S73 Championship Week (/showthread.php?tid=133705)
RE: S73 Championship Week - 5ympathies - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.clapper
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3. Written, 3 TPE, Forged in Fire (150 words min.)
The Forge and the Patriotes both won cups in recent memory, but while the Patriotes called it a window and tore everything down to the boards, their expansion brothers in Philadelphia have found a way to get back to the dance. How did they do it? Can they keep it up? What should teams like Winnipeg and New England learn from them?From what I have learned in my many many many, perhaps too many years in this league, is that when you have a window, even just a reasonable chance at a window, you go all in as long as you can, because there is no guarantee that your window lasts as long as you think it will, or that if you tear it down in an attempt to re salvage the future to come back into it quick, there is no guarantee or sure thing that is going to happen the way you plan for it. In my opinion, if you are in contention and you feel like you can make a deep run, do whatever it takes to go deep and go deep before regression starts to fuck your core hard, because with these new rules, you can not keep regression at bay like you used to be able to. All in forever in the hopes you win.
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12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)
Looks like [TEAM] won Season 73! Who won and why? What could the other team have done differently to change the result? What was your favorite part of the series?Congratulations to the Edmonton Blizzard. It is crazy that the last Challenge Cup they won was in S49, with me on the other side of the competition playing for New England who was unrightfully robbed of the victory due to STHS goaltending that fell apart the second we made it to the finals. Regardless, Philly should have won, and this is coming from the very insightful opinion of someone who just now found out that 1, Edmonton won, and 2, Philly was the opponent, and let's be honest 3, that the season had already ended. I am just happy that Toronto made the playoffs this season as it has been so long without us. Regarding what the other team could have done differently to change the outcome? A couple of things, secretly test simmed, thrown in some bad code that forced a win, had better players? Nothing can really be done once you let the sim engine take over, so there is no point in stressing.
RE: S73 Championship Week - charlieconway - 11-16-2023
Quote:1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.
verification: absolute
Quote:10. Written, 3 TPE, IIHF Analysis (150 words min.)
How do you think the IIHF federation you play for will do this season? Will you be better than last seasons? Why or why not?
I think Canada has as good a shot as anyone else of winning the gold. The roster is full of high TPE players, and the coaching is competent. It’s just a matter of putting together a tactic that will reap rewards.
That’s very tough now with the prohibition on test simming. You kinda just have to wing it and hope for the best. That’s an especially tall ask in a tournament, when the opportunities to tinker are so few and far between.
There has been some roster turnover this season, with Billy Herrington, Bastien Primeau, and Bean Beanman coming in to replace Kezia MacKenzie, Gudmundur Kristjansson, and Tommy Westbrook. Those last three were getting long in the tooth so it’s good to get fresh blood in the mix.
Last season’s tournament saw Canada not even qualify for the elimination round, so there is certainly room for improvement in S73. Though, to be fair to last year’s team, 5th in the division Canada was at 19 points while teams 1-4 in the conference finished with 22, 21, 21, 20 respectively.
Since it was such a slim margin, there are any number of ways Canada can inch itself across the line and qualify for the medal round. Scoring more goals would be a safe bet, as would tightening up the defense and hopefully being in an easier conference this time around.
Quote:12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)
Looks like [TEAM] won Season 73! Who won and why? What could the other team have done differently to change the result? What was your favorite part of the series?
The Edmonton Blizzard won the S73 Challenge Cup. Why? Because they had the more balanced offense.
I hate to use one game to make a case for this one way or another, but there's something to be learned in the final game of the playoffs: Game 7 between the two teams, an affair that ended 4-3 in favor of the Blizzard. In that game, Philadelphia had one player that provided all three of their goals: Ricky Koivu. Edmonton, on the other hand, had goals from four different players: Kobliska, Wong, Winter, St. Martin.
If you have your offense being filtered through one player, then your team lives and dies by that player. In game 7, it was Ricky Koivu. It could have just as easily been Red Kirkby, who led all players in post-season points.
But if your offense comes from everywhere, as it tended to do from Edmonton, then it’s much harder for your opponent to shut you down when it counts.
It might seem cheap to take such a lesson from just one game but consider that one goal was all that separated these two teams in the finals. This reason seems just as good as any other.
RE: S73 Championship Week - SewingWithNancy - 11-16-2023
1 - CINCY
2 -
- I think Philly impresses me most as since their inception they have never really been bottom of the pack. Their worst season was their first season in S60. And they finished 14th, which ill be honest, isn’t wonderful, but since that time they have been middle to head of the pack. So that just tells me that from the inception, they have had solid leadership.
- Personally Id rather be the hungry youngsters, as long as our future wasn’t completely mortgaged to get to the finals. If they got there without giving up too much talent/draft picks and are able to keep this window open, then hell yeah that is awesome. But if im on a team who gave away everything at a chance for just one championship, that will make a loss all that much more painful.
- Id give the edge to the Blizzard, as someone who has been on a team to lose to a rival, season after season, it is a real gut punch when you get matched up again in the playoffs. So to finally upend the Aurora must have felt like a huge huge win. That is something that the whole team will always remember. I still remember Maine’s first win over Newfoundland in the playoffs and I wasn’t even on the team at the time. I lost to them for 4 seasons in the finals so i understand the drama
- I give the edge to Philly as they have a core that knows how to win together. They have one ship, so they know how to get it done. Edmonton is too green and i think that will be their downfall. Too much pressure for the championship rookies. No one on that team has been there together yet, and it might lead to lots of nerves. Granted i could be completely wrong and they might really put up a fight!
RE: S73 Championship Week - trella - 11-16-2023
1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE
woo
2. Grab Bag, 2 TPE
a. The team in the finals that impresses me the most is the Edmonton Blizzard. The Blizzard have gone through a lot as a team since their last Challenge Cup win in S49. They have had to overcome a lot of adversity to get to this point, so I think they will have the courage and determination to win.
b. If I had to choose, I would be the hungry youngsters who are looking to capture glory for the first time. I would imagine there is a lot of pressure for the Forge to win this cup in the city of Philidelphia of all places. Edmonton has way less pressure to win, so I would rather be them.
3. No Time For Caution, 3 TPE
Like I said in my grab bag response, I am taking the Edmonton Blizzard to win this series. While the Forge have been to the finals before and won, thus having more experience, I think the Blizzard have the talent and energy to persevere and win their first Challenge Cup since S49. The Blizzard have an elite top 6 forward group, headlined by Benjamin Surkhi-Ze'ev and Luke Laraque, accompanied by an elite first defensive pairing of Eggward Elric and Emil Egli (so many E's, geck would be proud). With studs up and down the lineup, the Blizzard can rely on some great skaters to get the job done. You of course can not forget about their franchise goaltender Justin Time, who has posted great numbers for years and this playoff run has been no different. If TIme can stay hot, he can provide the stellar goaltending needed to win the Challenge Cup.
RE: S73 Championship Week - Jepox - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.VW: gwdjohnsonbetterberight
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12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)
Looks like [TEAM] won Season 73! Who won and why? What could the other team have done differently to change the result? What was your favorite part of the series?Wow these Simulation Hockey League playoffs sure were special and it comes as no surprise to me that the Edmonton Blizzard won the cup. Edmonton just had the firepower come out this series scoring a ton of goals and letting in fewer goals than Philly did and in my expert opinion that's a surefire way to win the cup. The Forge should've taken a page out of their book and let in fewer goals and scored a few more if they wanted to win the cup. Historically the team who wins more games in the series wins the cup so they should aim to do that next time around. My favourite part of the series was game seven because that meant we're one step closer to next season so I get to play again.
(134 words)
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8. Graphic, 3 TPE, Upon Further Review
Draw how your team's season went! As long as I can tell which team you play for and it conveys some kind of sentiment about your team's season, you'll get credit.![[Image: cw.png?ex=656927e4&is=6556b2e4&hm=0f0557...height=662]](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/744742467332472884/1174867785743073310/cw.png?ex=656927e4&is=6556b2e4&hm=0f055776f0c004c2564affb8ea80fedfb90bc990a03a6808bf2660f9f12edc5d&=&width=1177&height=662)
8/8
RE: S73 Championship Week - Nike - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.Code:
4. Written, 3 TPE, Winter is Coming (150 words min.)
Unlike their rivals, who have literally never been bad, the Blizzard were deep in the doldrums not too many seasons ago. Now that they've reached the mountaintop, how did they pull off such a strong rebuild? What can other teams currently facing hard times learn from their success?Rebuilds are never easy. And even more so in a league where everyone is fighting to get to the top. However, there are plenty of ways to remain competitive season after season with the right mix of good drafting, strong talent management and more than anything, consistency across your roster. It is really easy to find good people in your leadership group. It is really hard to get them to stay. Edmonton has found success in getting a strong management group that has a vision for how they want to build the organization and sticking to that plan. While it hasn’t been an easy road, Edmonton has absolutely shown some of the younger teams that there is a way to the top of the mountain. You have to find the right group of leaders, stick to the plan, and always be looking for a trade or a draft pick that is going to make you better in the long run. That’s why the Blizzard are now sitting at the top of the SHL universe.
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12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)
Looks like [TEAM] won Season 73! Who won and why? What could the other team have done differently to change the result? What was your favorite part of the series?The Edmonton Blizzard managed to take the Challenge Cup in an absolutely nail biting 7 game series with the Forge. After swiftly taking care of the Specters, Panthers and Winnipeg, it was expected that the Blizzard were going to be fairly well rested. On the other hand, it was not like the Forge had a terribly challenging road to the finals themselves. In fact, the Forge played exactly the same number of games as the Blizzard en route to the final. It is without a doubt that the magic of game 7 was the best part of the series. A 4-3 final in game 7 with the GWG coming late in the third period is just one of those stories that you expect the people of Edmonton to be telling for generations.
RE: S73 Championship Week - golden_apricot - 11-16-2023
1. cum (3 tpe)
2a. teh phorge have impresed me the most with their ability to sustain their sucess. their long term at or near the top of teh east has extended past what most teams have in the past as their "window" since the hamilton era of the SHL. In addition it does not appear that they have a hard fall coming in anytime soon which is interesting to look at moving forward.
b. veteran teams typically have a slight edge in these matchups, but this edge comes from their ability to anticipate how hard the grind is this late in the saeson. if the younger team can stay fresh in earlier rounds they should be able to make some noise in the title tilt. i think this makes for an interseting series taht could go the distance.
3. The phorge have an intesrting team building strategy of not building for distinct windows, but rather building a roster that is well balanced. This is a tactic that has been used by teams like Atlanta to have sustained success. You will have lower highs, but this strategy does help ward off low lows and the team does not have to go into a full tank to recover. It also does require a bit more scouting and hitting on one or two stretch prospects in a given time period to be able to compete for cups, but this has proven to be a good strategy for building a longer term near the top of the league. Other teams might try this in the future but having expansion to be able to start tbings off with more actives than not did help them a bit vs what newly rebuilding teams can expect which isn’t ideal for them. (152 words 3 tpe)
RE: S73 Championship Week - WithTheMoose - 11-16-2023
1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.
penguin
11. Written, 3 TPE, Teammates is Teammates (150 words min.)
Do you have any IIHF teammates that play your own SHL team? Do you feel your chemsitry from the SHL carries over to the IIHF? Does your GM play you together, or not? Should they?
Playing for Chicago means that Pengu absolutely has a ton of bleed over from his IIHF team in Sweden and his SHL team. In fact a large portion of the Chicago roster plays for the Swedes with power players like Adelie de Pengu himself, Melvin Majestic Moose, Matsmith Soderberg-Tremblay, Dave Heinrich, and Rasmus Bergling all sharing a roster. Might as well say an entire power line jumps between the two and I absolutely think having that kind of synergy gives the Swedes an advantage. These players get to play together all season, they know how each other think and how they move, and it really lets them get into each others heads and play together on a level that many of the other international teams just don't get to experience. Its almost a psychic connection and I do thing it is a big part of why Sweden has had so much success in the IIHF in recent seasons, as Chicago brings in more and more Swedish nationals.
5. Written, 3 TPE, No Time for Caution (150 words min)
Pick the finalist you think is going to win, and describe what that team needs to do to overcome their opponent and take home the cup. The Forge had the stronger offense in the playoffs, while the Blizzard had the stronger defense. Will those trends hold? Will Justin Time carry Edmtonton to victory?
I am normally pretty biased towards the team that is coming from the Western conference as they've been consistently stronger since I joined the league. That said this season I have to say I'm more impressed by the Eastern team coming in, the Forge. This is in large part because they beat the Wolfpack to get here and the Wolfpack looked far and away the best team in the regular season. They looked almost unstoppable and their losses were rare and yet the Forge found a way to knock them off. It took a mix of their strong offense and also their defense who stepped up to the challenge. Its for the reason that I think the Forge take it home because while Edmonton has thrived on their tough defense, their offense hasn't taken the kind of leap we've seen the forge's defense take. This makes the Forge a more complete team and I think thats enough to overcome their opponent.
RE: S73 Championship Week - Count Chocula - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.JNH
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2. Written, up to 4 TPE - Grab Bag: Pick up to 4 Challenge Cup related topics to write about! Each topic is worth 1 TPE. Each answer must be 50+ words.
c. The Blizzard upended a long-time nemesis in the Aurora to get here, while the Forge avenged several previous losses to the Wolfpack as well. Who had the more impressive victory to punch their ticket to the cup final, and why?
d. If it ain't broke don't fix it: Who you got? Who wins? Why?C. I'd say the Blizzard has the tougher task of making the finals. They had to go up against the defending champs. Almost the Aurora spent most of the season trying to cling on to their glory. They botched 3 seasons and saw their promising dynasty become a meme. A couple of bad deals and signings saw them turn into a one and done core. Blizzard however looks like the real deal.
D. The simple answer is the Blizzard win. They have a higher average TPE count. And that's all that really matters. That and a competent GM who can maximize the talent of the roster. Most important is the average TPE though. The Blizzard have a pretty deep team from top to bottom, while the Forge are well past their prime.
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4. Written, 3 TPE, Winter is Coming (150 words min.)
Unlike their rivals, who have literally never been bad, the Blizzard were deep in the doldrums not too many seasons ago. Now that they've reached the mountaintop, how did they pull off such a strong rebuild? What can other teams currently facing hard times learn from their success?The Blizzard took a two pronged approach on their road to the finals. It all started with their General Manager hounding me for days leading up to the season 69 draft. The GM HFFO had me targeted at the number eight slot and was begging me to sign off on his team philosophy. After finally giving in and deciding it would be a good fit, I ended up getting drafted there. Then one season later I got traded one for one for Eggward Elric out of no where. I was stunned to say the least that a GM that was so adamant about drafting me would just send me off before ever playing a game for the team. It seems as though selling your soul pays off in the long run. The other half of their approach was to illegally tamper another player away from a rival team. This done under the guide of coarse, to make said player an assistant manager. While having no real consequences for this it goes to show that if you ain't bending the rules, you ain't trying.
RE: S73 Championship Week - jbay7 - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.1. tactical
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10. Written, 3 TPE, IIHF Analysis (150 words min.)
How do you think the IIHF federation you play for will do this season? Will you be better than last seasons? Why or why not?Latvia is a team that is in a bit of a transitionary period. The team features a few well aged veterans on their last hurrah and very few players in their prime. The core is relatively young and the best days for Latvia are certainly ahead of them. I suppose this isn't saying much seeing as Latvia finished in dead last in the previous season's IIHF, coming away with just one win in twelve attempts. It would be very hard to not do better this go around and Latvia should be able to scrape a handful of wins together. Reaching the knockout rounds would take a strong performance from the team, but it is within the realm of possibility. For the most part however, this is a team whose better days are ahead of them as their young core continues to develop and improve. It won't be long before some of the retired players next generation also begin to make their mark for Latvia as well, but for now it's hard to expect much more than a few more wins than last season. (187 words)
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12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)
Looks like [TEAM] won Season 73! Who won and why? What could the other team have done differently to change the result? What was your favorite part of the series?Edmonton won a very tightly contested series over Philadelphia in seven games due to simply making one or two more clutch plays than their opponents. This was an extremely even series that turned on a few very close games that easily could have gone the other way. For Philadelphia to win, they simply needed to make just one more key play in games 5 or 7, both of which were lost by just 1 goal. The Forge put up 7 shots in OT in game 5 but couldn't put the game away before Edmonton did just that. They also seemed to have momentum in Game 7 when they tied the game in the third period on a SHG, but ultimately would give away the game, series, and championship winning goal late in that period to Edmonton. A close series that will have Philadelphia players, fans, and coaches wondering what could have been. (166 words)
RE: S73 Championship Week - Grum - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.Verification word: jog
+3
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10. Written, 3 TPE, IIHF Analysis (150 words min.)
How do you think the IIHF federation you play for will do this season? Will you be better than last seasons? Why or why not?The IIHF federation that Daniel Grumathan plays for is Germany and this should be the first season that he is able to join the team on the big stage. Last go around Germany went 9-1-2 in the round robin which was tied with Japan as the best record during that stage. Germany then took this momentum into the bracket stage and won the gold medal. As for this upcoming season, I think the team will be about the same as last season, maybe just slightly worse. Key players of the last tournament like Konstantin Selich and Jonas Kahnwald are getting up there in age so we will just have to see if they can keep up the level of play we have begun to be used to. That being said though we still have two of the best forwards in the world in Evan Winters and Red Kirkby that are going to be cornerstones of this team for more years to come. There are also talented youngsters on the team like Kermit Murphy and Olof Karsikko who were key members of the gold medal squad last year and are just going to keep improving.
WC: 193
+3
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12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)
Looks like [TEAM] won Season 73! Who won and why? What could the other team have done differently to change the result? What was your favorite part of the series?The winner of the S73 challenge cup was the Edmonton Blizzard and it is not hard to see why. The Blizzard are fielding one of the greatest offences that we have seen here in the SHL. This is evident by the fact that the team averaged a ridiculous 4.5 goals per game in this 7 game series. It is a bit hard to say what the Forge could have done differently as the series was extremely close the entire time but they thing I could argue could have been done better is capitalizing on the power player more in that last game. Best part of the finals was how close the games and series was as a whole.
WC: 118
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RE: S73 Championship Week - Bonk - 11-16-2023
1.) Belly
2.a) What impresses me most about the Philadelphia Forge is that their name almost makes to feel like to are working with steel or hot iron. The word forge just brings images in my mind of epic blacksmithing occurring and who does not love that. It is as if I can feel the heat rising.
Words~54
2.c) There is no question that the Edmonton Blizzard had the easier road to the finals, as they had to play the Winnipeg Aurora. Things could have been considerably worse as if things were a little different the Blizzard could have faced the Winnipeg Jets and more than likely they would have faced defeat.
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4.) The Edmonton Blizzard had a long way to build themselves up to where they are today. In the past they were not the team they are today; both their offence and defense had several issues that needed to be improved upon. The goal scoring was not where it needed to be and the defense was letting to many opposing players be unopposed head it to their end of the ice. These offensive and defensive issues are problematic for team trying to win championships in their pursuit of glory. Thing had to improve and that is just what they did. Through a combined effort of good drafting and marketing of the Edmonton Blizzard to the other players in the league, brought in building blocks need to build the team, while keeping and developing the players which had great potential. That is how the Edmonton Blizzard were able to have the team that they have today.
Words~154
TPE 8
RE: S73 Championship Week - Toivo - 11-16-2023
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2. Written, up to 4 TPE - Grab Bag: Pick up to 4 Challenge Cup related topics to write about! Each topic is worth 1 TPE. Each answer must be 50+ words.B I guess when the question is presented like this, I would like to see the new team win it. I have respect for the Forge and it would be cool to see them win it, but a newer team that hasn’t won in a while is exciting and thus, they have my support.
C Once again, I’d say Edmonton. Edmonton won in 5 games, whereas, the Forge had to go to game 6 to win the Eastern Finals. Edmonton’s performance in the conference finals was just more impressive and it led to them winning the whole thing. It was close since neither team got a sweep, but Edmonton gets the nod here as more impressive.
D Edmonton is hungrier, in my opinion. They haven’t been to this stage in a while so they have more to prove. Everyone knows Philadelphia is capable of picking up a championship win. So with more to prove, Edmonton wins because they are more motivated and winning would mean more to that franchise.
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5. Written, 3 TPE, No Time for Caution (150 words min)Code:
12. Written, 2 TPE - The Procrastinator Special! (100 words min.)RE: S73 Championship Week - Tomen - 11-16-2023
pt pass
RE: S73 Championship Week - thiefofcheese - 11-16-2023
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1. CW TRIVIA, 3 TPE max - 1.5 TPE for participation, 0.5 TPE for each correct answer. This is completed through a Google form linked below. Make sure to spell your answers correctly or you will not get credit. Post your verification word in your CW post.CW TRIVIA LINK
cheese
+3 TPE
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2. Written, up to 4 TPE - Grab Bag: Pick up to 4 Challenge Cup related topics to write about! Each topic is worth 1 TPE. Each answer must be 50+ words.
b. The Forge have won a cup with this core, while the Blizzard are sniffing this air for the first time in a while. Who would you rather be - the veteran team that's been here and won it before, or the hungry youngsters taking their first shot at glory?Who does not want to root for the team that has not had a chance for the cup? I do not know the last time I was hoping for a Blizzard win, but I am going to go with them this time. I realize the games have already been played and all, but I am still thinking the Blizzard should have.
+1 TPE
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c. The Blizzard upended a long-time nemesis in the Aurora to get here, while the Forge avenged several previous losses to the Wolfpack as well. Who had the more impressive victory to punch their ticket to the cup final, and why?Being as I am a player on the Wolfpack I am quite torn if I want to say that beating us was more impressive or just a crap draw from NEW. In reality the Forge beat us all season and it would have been quite an upset to have beaten them so I am going to say that this goes to the Blizzard again.
+1 TPE
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4. Written, 3 TPE, Winter is Coming (150 words min.)
Unlike their rivals, who have literally never been bad, the Blizzard were deep in the doldrums not too many seasons ago. Now that they've reached the mountaintop, how did they pull off such a strong rebuild? What can other teams currently facing hard times learn from their success?I think all credit on rebuilds go to the GM. It takes some serious work and time to get through a rebuild, bring up a young core, and then HOPE that it pays off when your core is in its prime. These things are never a sure thing and sometimes the stars leave the team coming out of a rebuild to go chase a cup which then puts you another step back. Kudos to the GMs for making it happen. Now I will be honest that I have no clue if there was a change of GM or anything here, but I am assuming that the GM that won was with them through some of those tough seasons.
But I can not give it all to the GM, the core of the team did also have to stick around in those terrible years so much credit to them for having faith in the plan and then seeing it come to fruition. Winning the cup is amazing and glad to see someone new up for it.
+3 TPE