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+---- Thread: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 (/showthread.php?tid=108618)
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - StadiumGambler - 07-21-2020
BAP / WPG trade was worth it on our end, Thunfish has been a good addition to the Discord team culture and should hold down a second/third line center spot for a few more seasons than Svensson would.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - Wally - 07-21-2020
Y'all understand that a goalie's build can control his performance, correct? The only way to keep the random trend rocking is for a goalie to continue to updating ALL of their attributes. In saying that, Kavy would be my choice as a starter... Not just for his youth, but also for his foundation that he can update on.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - luke - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 12:48 PMWally Wrote: Y'all understand that a goalie's build can control his performance, correct? The only way to keep the random trend rocking is for a goalie to continue to updating ALL of their attributes. In saying that, Kavy would be my choice as a starter... Not just for his youth, but also for his foundation that he can update on.
I can’t speak for what the other people had to say. But for me I though the assets spent could have been used on forwards. SFP has a great 6 defensemen. It was the forwards that were the issue. Kavy is a top earning(I think) 800+ tpe young goalie that has a good build. The defense will be good behind them. For me it’s boosting the forward depth to try and compete with their division and conference
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - grok - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 12:45 PMStadiumGambler Wrote: BAP / WPG trade was worth it on our end, Thunfish has been a good addition to the Discord team culture and should hold down a second/third line center spot for a few more seasons than Svensson would.
Yeah I didn't fully consider the impact of regression/activity when I wrote my piece. Makes it less one-sided, although I still think BAP comes out ahead on value and position.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - Wally - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 01:08 PMluketd Wrote: I can’t speak for what the other people had to say. But for me I though the assets spent could have been used on forwards. SFP has a great 6 defensemen. It was the forwards that were the issue. Kavy is a top earning(I think) 800+ tpe young goalie that has a good build. The defense will be good behind them. For me it’s boosting the forward depth to try and compete with their division and conference
Totally agree Luke... Those picks could have definitely been used elsewhere (trade/draft alike)... Kavy is absolutely ready to start and will be an absolutely force in the right conditions. I really wasn't breaking down the trade specifically as I think you guys broke it down well, I was more dissecting the continuous comments about the randomness of goalies. All I do is sim goalie builds (and typing that at this very moment sounds pathetic), but I do. There are definitely ways to facilitate a stronger goaltender if updated accordingly and minimizing the sim risk.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - fishy - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 12:48 PMWally Wrote: Y'all understand that a goalie's build can control his performance, correct? The only way to keep the random trend rocking is for a goalie to continue to updating ALL of their attributes. In saying that, Kavy would be my choice as a starter... Not just for his youth, but also for his foundation that he can update on.
It has an influence yes, but ultimately goalies, even irl, are random af. Look at Cain's numbers from the regular season compared to the postseason, Vilde's from the regular season etc. Hell, look at Kryyst's numbers from the series against Buffalo compared to the series against NOLA. If higher attributes were the only thing that decreased randomness then Slash and Vliddy wouldn't have each had .903 and .890 save percentages respectably.
We agree on the Kavy part, and obviously it was none of our intentions to cause Grape any further stress or anything, it was just our opinions and it sucks to see Grape leave
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - fishy - 07-21-2020
Also @Wally even with doing everything to minimize the randomness of goalies, i think everyone agrees they are still random at this point. I know some teams have tested to see the difference in their goalie and the highest earning goalie in the league and the difference of about 800 tpe led to an extra single win on average over the season.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - slothfacekilla - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 01:28 PMjfisherr Wrote:07-21-2020, 12:48 PMWally Wrote: Y'all understand that a goalie's build can control his performance, correct? The only way to keep the random trend rocking is for a goalie to continue to updating ALL of their attributes. In saying that, Kavy would be my choice as a starter... Not just for his youth, but also for his foundation that he can update on.
It has an influence yes, but ultimately goalies, even irl, are random af. Look at Cain's numbers from the regular season compared to the postseason, Vilde's from the regular season etc. Hell, look at Kryyst's numbers from the series against Buffalo compared to the series against NOLA. If higher attributes were the only thing that decreased randomness then Slash and Vliddy wouldn't have each had .903 and .890 save percentages respectably.
We agree on the Kavy part, and obviously it was none of our intentions to cause Grape any further stress or anything, it was just our opinions and it sucks to see Grape leave
Slash redistributed a bit near the end of the regular season if I remember correctly fwiw
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - honkerrs - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 01:33 PMjfisherr Wrote: Also "Wally" even with doing everything to minimize the randomness of goalies, i think everyone agrees they are still random at this point. I know some teams have tested to see the difference in their goalie and the highest earning goalie in the league and the difference of about 800 tpe led to an extra single win on average over the season.no no no. oBvIouSlY you didn't test sim enough to minimize risk. Walt at <800 TPE with like 1 attribute over 16 just knew how to minimize risk better than a goalie who had 20s in nearly every attribute. cmon man
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - SlashACM - 07-21-2020
Bro I just suck lmao any goalie could do better
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - Wally - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 01:33 PMjfisherr Wrote: Also @Wally even with doing everything to minimize the randomness of goalies, i think everyone agrees they are still random at this point. I know some teams have tested to see the difference in their goalie and the highest earning goalie in the league and the difference of about 800 tpe led to an extra single win on average over the season.
If you step out of the bubble of needing to apply all of your TPE, you can make a pretty damn good and consistent goalie if the strats are made around that.
07-21-2020, 01:47 PMSlashACM Wrote: Bro I just suck lmao any goalie could do better
There are a few changes I would suggest... and ideally it revolves around taking away TPE, not adding.
07-21-2020, 01:39 PMhonkerrs Wrote: no no no. oBvIouSlY you didn't test sim enough to minimize risk. Walt at <800 TPE with like 1 attribute over 16 just knew how to minimize risk better than a goalie who had 20s in nearly every attribute. cmon man
Not sure what you are implying. A maxed out goalie WILL do worse than an optimally built goalie. This is a sim... everything revolves around calculations.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - takethehorizon - 07-21-2020
Quote:honkerrsno no no. oBvIouSlY you didn't test sim enough to minimize risk. Walt at <800 TPE with like 1 attribute over 16 just knew how to minimize risk better than a goalie who had 20s in nearly every attribute. cmon man
Not sure what you are implying. A maxed out goalie WILL do worse than an optimally built goalie. This is a sim... everything revolves around calculations.
Can you elaborate on this, @Wally? Curious how this could be true.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - honkerrs - 07-21-2020
sick i can actually go IA now. @ml002 youre welcome for my unstoppable 425 goalie
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - Wally - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 02:06 PMtakethehorizon Wrote: Can you elaborate on this, @Wally? Curious how this could be true.
A sim, while is suppose to replicate realism, is just a sim. A bunch of equations mashed together to create an experience. (duh, Wally we know this)
However, when we switched to FHM all goalies have become hybrids. Meaning certain attributes need a minimum to be passable in the SHL, but too high and they will be used too often causing more problems in a risk/reward scenario. However there are many other intangibles that go into this as well. Which is why I really like the FHM switch to be honest.
RE: [SHN] Offseason Trades Part 1 - sve7en - 07-21-2020
07-21-2020, 02:19 PMWally Wrote:07-21-2020, 02:06 PMtakethehorizon Wrote: Can you elaborate on this, @Wally? Curious how this could be true.
A sim, while is suppose to replicate realism, is just a sim. A bunch of equations mashed together to create an experience. (duh, Wally we know this)
However, when we switched to FHM all goalies have become hybrids. Meaning certain attributes need a minimum to be passable in the SHL, but too high and they will be used too often causing more problems in a risk/reward scenario. However there are many other intangibles that go into this as well. Which is why I really like the FHM switch to be honest.
Ahh yes, if a goalie maxes his glove he'll reach across his body to use it and that's inefficient.
I like that you somehow both acknowledge this isn't SimonT anymore, and then use the assumption that this is SimonT.