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+---- Thread: Waivers for those who signed up after the draft (/showthread.php?tid=86579)
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- Troy_McClure03 - 06-05-2018
I noticed a few players made a player after the draft. Like me. I did this.
I screwed Colorado over last season by being afk, so I thought I owed it to them to help them out. Plus a lot of guys helped me out the first time around. I never considered other teams. The timing turned out that I remade too late for the draft. But I could sign anywhere?
But then I thought about it, and that's kinda messed up. What if they have a team full of 350tpe hold outs for the big league, and they gained a super active player over the other teams?
That's why I purpose the waiver system for new people who sign up. The way I look at it:
-odds are in the junior level a team is going to have a few afk or ghost players.
- the teams with the most afk players will most likely have the worst record.
- if a team really wants said player, it'll hopefully encourage a team to make a roster move to get them.
I know that it isn't a huge deal for the first year, since everybody starts at 155 tpe. But the draft is important, and circumventing the draft sets up a situation where a team can be a powerhouse for a few years, while other teams will be lower for longer.
So, a simple waiver system, where current last place gets first shot at the player.
Just a thought to try to make things fair from square one.
- ztevans - 06-05-2018
DISCLAIMER: NO LONGER IN SMJHL HO, TAKE AT FACE VALUE
My argument against waivers while in SMJHL HO went thusly.
1 - They aren't necessary to make things "level from square one." Everyone has the same chance to sign a free agent, not everyone would have the same chance to acquire a player via waivers. And while there are ebbs and flows, by and large there was a pretty good balance across the league in terms of how many of the post-draft free agents signed with each team.
2 - In every league I've seen a waiver system used, it turns into a shitshow at some point or another. Either you get a recreate who refuses to go wherever the waiver process put them, or arguments over the waiver process among GMs. I sincerely believe it would create more problems than it solves.
3 - Most importantly, I think the FA process is a vital replacement for new users who miss out on the SMJHL Draft, from a user experience standpoint. Ultimately, the SMJHL exists for new users to become familiar with the league and want to stick around to join the SHL proper. The best way to ensure that is to give them the choice of which team they join, and the opportunity to get courted by other teams. Being forced onto a weak team, likely with very few actives in the LR beyond the GMs considering the cyclical nature of the SMJHL, is not conducive to this and actively works against the SMJHL's mission.
- ml002 - 06-05-2018
It's not really an issue and I say that from experience. Despite PGF being pretty bad last season and not great this season, I've still nabbed more players via FA than I think anyone else. Are all still active? No, but we've got some real gems from it. A FA shouldn't be forced to play for a team they don't have interest in playing for. That defeats the purpose of juniors, which is to entice players to be active.
- RomanesEuntDomus - 06-05-2018
I never liked the waiver system that other leagues use for their juniors/rookies, hell the SHL actually tried it as well for a season or two a loooooooong time ago and it didn't work to well either. Evans has already elaborated on most of the reasons, I'd just add one more which is that the FA system can help us get new members, as people try to get their friends to sign up so they can play on the same team as them.
People holding out until after the draft to all sign with one team is a problem that could theoretically come up but it has never happened, mostly because people enjoy the draft process and they don't want to lose out on a bunch TPE, so I don't think we need to implement preventive measures. If there really came a point where people started trying this en masse then I'm confident that the HO would step in and even if they didn't - it doesn't necessarily give a team that big of an advantage anyway, as there are a limited amount of spots available on each roster. Getting a bunch of players as fake FAs will make it tougher to get real FAs because you can't offer them ice time, also people get to 350 TPE rather quickly so an extra maxed out SMJHL player isn't necessarily that big of an advantage.
- ztevans - 06-05-2018
Quote:Originally posted by RomanesEuntDomus@Jun 5 2018, 07:33 AM
I never liked the waiver system that other leagues use for their juniors/rookies, hell the SHL actually tried it as well for a season or two a loooooooong time ago and it didn't work to well either. Evans has already elaborated on most of the reasons, I'd just add one more which is that the FA system can help us get new members, as people try to get their friends to sign up so they can play on the same team as them.
People holding out until after the draft to all sign with one team is a problem that could theoretically come up [b] but it has never happened, mostly because people enjoy the draft process and they don't want to lose out on a bunch TPE, so I don't think we need to implement preventive measures. If there really came a point where people started trying this en masse then I'm confident that the HO would step in and even if they didn't - it doesn't necessarily give a team that big of an advantage anyway, as there are a limited amount of spots available on each roster. Getting a bunch of players as fake FAs will make it tougher to get real FAs because you can't offer them ice time, also people get to 350 TPE rather quickly so an extra maxed out SMJHL player isn't necessarily that big of an advantage.[/b]
Just to add before someone else says it, it did happen with the "Deplorables" in S31. It was utterly useless since all of them but <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> went inactive. Bastards.
- RomanesEuntDomus - 06-05-2018
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 5 2018, 02:45 PM
Just to add before someone else says it, it did happen with the "Deplorables" in S31. It was utterly useless since all of them but <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> went inactive. Bastards.
Oh right, I totally forgot about that since it did end up helping the team at all :D
- sarmo - 06-05-2018
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 5 2018, 08:45 AMThey were all weirdos anyway
Just to add before someone else says it, it did happen with the "Deplorables" in S31. It was utterly useless since all of them but <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> went inactive. Bastards.
- Grapehead - 06-05-2018
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 5 2018, 09:45 AMya lol wtf <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> is GOAT Deplorable
Just to add before someone else says it, it did happen with the "Deplorables" in S31. It was utterly useless since all of them but <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> went inactive. Bastards.
I am also of the thought that forcing players onto teams in the SMJHL is not the best outcome for all involved. However, I think free agency can be abused and tilt things to one team's favour, and that has happened in several scenarios. One thing I hated was seeing guys waiting to recruit their friends until after the draft, or a user retiring their player after the draft to recreate as a position of need for their team (free position change essentially). I've still not come up with a good alternative that doesn't handcuff users though.
- Brandon - 06-05-2018
I've usually been in favor of a waiver system for the Juniors, but I think there is something to be said the excitement new members can get from being courted from the beginning instead of being placed on a team against their will. If it produces more activity for new members, I think it's hard to move away from the signing system.
- sarmo - 06-06-2018
Quote:Originally posted by Grapehead@Jun 5 2018, 11:15 AM
ya lol wtf <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> is GOAT Deplorable
Im the best of the worst o:-) :(
- RainDelay - 06-06-2018
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 5 2018, 08:45 AM
Just to add before someone else says it, it did happen with the "Deplorables" in S31. It was utterly useless since all of them but <a href='index.php?showuser=5' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-52'>sarmo</a> went inactive. Bastards.
Who were the other ones? I know Merica but forgot the rest
- ztevans - 06-06-2018
Quote:Originally posted by RainDelay@Jun 6 2018, 09:05 PM
Who were the other ones? I know Merica but forgot the rest
Oh fuck. Hmm.
Merica, Maxy, Leo, EMS, Sarmo iirc.
- Avakael - 06-06-2018
Was Deener in there?
- Waters - 06-07-2018
Quote:Originally posted by Avakael@Jun 6 2018, 11:30 PMno i think he was seperate
Was Deener in there?
- Waters - 06-07-2018
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 6 2018, 10:07 PMnike too i think
Oh fuck. Hmm.
Merica, Maxy, Leo, EMS, Sarmo iirc.