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DeletedAtUserRequest · 07-24-2019, 11:54 PM

07-24-2019, 11:42 PMiRockstar Wrote: I get some people can write essays on 4-5 questions, 4-5 questions should not determine if someone is good or not, no matter the bullshit they write in an essay, lets be real, I could easily write you 1000 words if I felt like it, but is it necessary?

Yes

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***Alaska*** · 07-24-2019, 11:55 PM

07-24-2019, 11:44 PMgrok Wrote:
07-24-2019, 11:34 PM39alaska39 Wrote: I agree with this. As someone who has been hired for a couple different jobs that came with applications here, I can honestly say that I never got a response on any of them. I found out I got hired as Raptors GM from the announcement post and that’s the same way I found out I didn’t getting the Raptors job the first time. Even if there was just a simple message back saying, “Hey, thank you for your application but we’ve decided to go another direction” would go a long way in my opinion.

I'm considering adding "collect and respond to applications as instructed" to the intern position. Not sure yet but it's under consideration.

And for what it's worth, we do have a new policy of offering jobs to the winning applicant prior to the announcement. I've done it for fuzz and NJ.

I think that’s definitely a positive step. Not that I would have rejected the job when offered, but it’s always possible that someone will have some major change in the time between them submitting the application and hearing back

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ztevans · 07-24-2019, 11:55 PM

07-24-2019, 11:42 PMiRockstar Wrote: But this is exactly the flaw. I understand people know one another, we all interact here, and so on. But it doesn't make it any more encouraging for anyone who is either returning, or new for that matter, to feel like they stand a chance, because people automatically go with the same people they know and do NOTHING to get to know their possible future successors. Again, this isn't just towards HO, Slash said it happened to him with a totally different position that was dealt with by someone else completely.

Don't confuse "known" for "old." Plenty of newer users have been hired for important jobs over time. My point was, if you display an investment in the site, hiring folks are more likely to take notice when it's time to fill a vacancy because of that investment. Not because it's some "good old boys club" or because they don't want to get to know other people.

grok · 07-24-2019, 11:59 PM

07-24-2019, 11:51 PMiRockstar Wrote:
07-24-2019, 11:48 PMgrok Wrote: I'll be real with you. I'm an S43 first gen who avoided the big discord like the plague. I don't know everyone on the site, so the apps are often my first impression of people who aren't very actively engaged with the SMJHL.

And you're telling me here you could easily make a better first impression with a stronger application, but you're consciously choosing not to?

I was under the impression SOMEONE would have done so much as to acknowledge my application and if they needed further information...to ask. Why put all my eggs in one basket when I can then have a real conversation with someone and answer as much as possible through the course of an interaction? Knowing that wont happen and people only view the initial application, I now know, I'll need to write essays to get jobs, which I am fine with, but it's just not what I expected.

The continuing issue is whether we needed further information to ask. In our last two hirings, we didn't need further information to ask because the best application was far ahead of the others.

We aren't asking for essays, we're asking for the best application. We've gotten that in a lot of ways. In my time in HO, I've voted for a candidate who laid out his short term and long term roadmap to revitalize the franchise he applied for. I've voted for a candidate who emphasized how desperately their LR needed stable leadership. I've voted for a candidate who, knowing a huge draft is coming, had already prepared their draft board and draft plan.

When we get those quality applications that make it obvious, we don't need to have conversations. And I so wish we did have to have conversations. I wish every app was so strong we had to hold interviews for every job and fight tooth and nail with each other, so we knew we were making the best choice.

But our reality right now is that most of the time, those 4-5 questions filter out the person who has the best insight and plan.

We will take the suggestion of sending receipt and rejection messages and add it to our S49 discussion board. If we are not complete by the end of S49, we will update in the State of the Union.

iRockstar · 07-25-2019, 12:04 AM

07-24-2019, 11:59 PMgrok Wrote:
07-24-2019, 11:51 PMiRockstar Wrote: I was under the impression SOMEONE would have done so much as to acknowledge my application and if they needed further information...to ask. Why put all my eggs in one basket when I can then have a real conversation with someone and answer as much as possible through the course of an interaction? Knowing that wont happen and people only view the initial application, I now know, I'll need to write essays to get jobs, which I am fine with, but it's just not what I expected.

The continuing issue is whether we needed further information to ask. In our last two hirings, we didn't need further information to ask because the best application was far ahead of the others.

We aren't asking for essays, we're asking for the best application. We've gotten that in a lot of ways. In my time in HO, I've voted for a candidate who laid out his short term and long term roadmap to revitalize the franchise he applied for. I've voted for a candidate who emphasized how desperately their LR needed stable leadership. I've voted for a candidate who, knowing a huge draft is coming, had already prepared their draft board and draft plan.

When we get those quality applications that make it obvious, we don't need to have conversations. And I so wish we did have to have conversations. I wish every app was so strong we had to hold interviews for every job and fight tooth and nail with each other, so we knew we were making the best choice.

But our reality right now is that most of the time, those 4-5 questions filter out the person who has the best insight and plan.

We will take the suggestion of sending receipt and rejection messages and add it to our S49 discussion board. If we are not complete by the end of S49, we will update in the State of the Union.

like I said this was not directed to any one person or group, but thank you for taking the time to explain your take on things, it's opened my eyes and allowed me to actually know the procedure but also know everything that goes into the HO decisions, cheers for that Smile

artermis · 07-25-2019, 11:21 AM

Honestly, I haven't even thought of thanking people for their applications, just a matter of habit and how it's been on the site since I've joined I guess, but that's a simple addition to make if people truly do want acknowledgement of the reception of their app.

Follow-ups I'd say are rarely required, at least in my experience. I've only had two positions that were contended for roughly equally in passion and experience that required follow-ups.

The problem about general transparency is the same reason I don't release the name of who has applied. With how toxic and opinionated the site can be, I feel it's important for applicants to remain anonymous to help protect them, at the very least during the hiring process.

After the fact is a different matter, and while again I feel it important to protect those making the decision, they should also deliberate in a way that could be aired publicly without issue, but putting most deliberations out publicly may lead to more abuse as it is I worry.

Those are my initial thoughts at least.

artermis · 07-25-2019, 11:26 AM

Also, skimming over most the points thus far:

As someone who runs apps with less than 4-5 questions, it truly is enough for me, as I try to make them as abstract as possible, allowing for expansion if possible. The result? The visionary or romantic, not necessarily the best writer, can really put together a solid response.

Also re: essay-length apps, if you can write an essay for an app, and it's not bullshitted, then you immediately have a great chance at being hired. You've shown dedication, passion, and the know-how, the main qualities in a hiree.

ArGarBarGar · 07-25-2019, 11:38 AM

Wait, iRockstar is back? Noice

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
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Blastmeaway · 07-30-2019, 12:04 AM

07-24-2019, 11:34 PM39alaska39 Wrote: I agree with this. As someone who has been hired for a couple different jobs that came with applications here, I can honestly say that I never got a response on any of them. I found out I got hired as Raptors GM from the announcement post and that’s the same way I found out I didn’t getting the Raptors job the first time. Even if there was just a simple message back saying, “Hey, thank you for your application but we’ve decided to go another direction” would go a long way in my opinion.

There’s a bunch of thoughts, ideas, and beliefs in this thread. My biggest takeaway is from what @artermis said, “Honestly, I haven't even thought of thanking people for their applications, just a matter of habit and how it's been on the site since I've joined I guess, but that's a simple addition to make if people truly do want acknowledgement of the reception of their app.” this is the issue more over anything else. People by habit require acknowledgement. This allows that person to accept that their applications has been received and at a minimum opened.

Alaska put it well. People aren’t requiring a rubric with feedback about their application in the response. Those that do, will go out of their way to ask. We all are aware that you’re not the only person applying for a job, but the excuse that there are too many people to message, too much work to be had to do, that’s the precedent for the site, these are excuses for laziness. When you’re in a management position that’s your responsibility. If you apply for a job IRL and they don’t get back to you, you probably don’t want to work for a company that is lacking in communication skills.

During my last set of hirings for updaters I had 17 applicants, and I have another 16 applicants that I need to get back to currently for hiring, I messaged every single one of them to let them know that they’d either been hired or not, except for one who I won’t go into detail about. It takes all of about a minute to write a basic copy and paste statement like Alaska states above.

Shout out to ml002, schultzy, slashacm, tedward!
[Image: blastmeaway.gif]

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09-05-2018, 10:04 PMBeaver Wrote: Wow look what the PT affiliation has done to our pristine league.

12-19-2018, 12:31 AMBeaver Wrote: I personally blame the PT affiliation for handing out massive amounts of free TPE to all these players, inflating the TPE they're at when they get called up.

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