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Rabidsponge21 · 02-23-2017, 09:29 PM

So as the season chugs along here, I have noticed one thing with a few teams and players which I had a legitimate question for the League as whole. I mean having only being a part of the league for what is now my 4th season, I am wondering what the exact stance is, and intent for the league when it comes to the dreaded subject of....

PLAYING TIME FOR PLAYERS!

Yes, this again. Why now? Well I will show you, and want to know peoples stances, ways to fix it if there is any intent to, or lets just screw it and play as much as we want. The reason I ask is cause I am wondering what sort of league this is trying to be overall. Is it strictly a for fun, "SHL is it's own thing, with it's own rules" sort of deal? Or are we trying to maybe be a bit like the NHL? If we are, then we are really starting to stray further away from that idea. I won't get started on my wish for an 82 game season for potentially comparable stats, but playing time will be the subject of this post.

The Average MP for a top end Forward in the NHL is currently:
21:40 Mins Per Game - Ryan O'Reilly
21:35 - Ryan Kesler
21:30 - Patrick Kane
21:20 - Vincent Trocheck
21:08 - Connor McDavid

The Average MP for a top end Defenseman is.:
27:25 - Dustin Byfuglien
27:14 - Drew Doughty
27:14 - Ryan Suter
26:58 - Rasmus Ristolainen
26:53 - Erik Karlsson

SHL Top 10 Forwards
28.97 - Theo Kane (EDM) - 60% 5v5 - 65% PP - 50% PK
28.92 - Ivan Koroviev (EDM) - 60% 5v5 - 65% PP - 50% PK
28.11 - Kian Hamilton (MAN)- 47% 5v5 - 45% PP - 50% PK
28.21 - VLAD McZherl (MAN) - 53% 5v5 - 55% PP - 50% PK
27.84 - Harry Hans (MAN) - 53% 5v5 - 55% PP - 50% PK
27.06 - Nikolaus Scholz (EDM) - 40% 5v5 - 35% PP - 50% PK
26.86 - Ace Redding (MAN) - 47% 5v5 - 45% PP - 50% PK
26.67 - Lord Pretty Flacko (MIN) - 55% 5v5 - 50% PP - 50% PK
26.04 - Sven Karlsson (TOR) - 51% 5v5 - 40% PP - 55% PK
25.13 - Pedro Sarantez (EDM) - 60% 5v5 - 65% PP - 50% PK

SHL Top 5 Defense
29.04 - Wyatt Wollker (MAN) - 50% 5v5 - 55% PP - 50% PK
28.75 - Alonzo Garbanzo (MIN) - 55% 5v5 - 50% PP - 60% PK
26.89 - Bubba Nuck (CGY) - 50% 5v5 - 60% PP - 50% PK
26.83 - Michael Boychuk (CGY) - 50% 5v5 - 40% PP - 50% PK
26.86 - Pal Vikingstod (MAN) - 50% 5v5 - 45% PP - 50% PK

Now I had someone suggest that, well with only 50 games played thinking about this as the same time frame players playing less games (than 82) would be able to play more. But comparing it to the actual SHL (european league) where they actually play roughly 50 games a year (52) they actually averaged LESS ice time per player.

So the question is. Do we not give a shit? Should we enable some sort of restriction on playing % per player? (min/max) Because I feel like this is impacting the stats being generated when other teams are running at least 9 forwards and 5-6 D. It's inflating stats, and being incredibly unrealistic, and really leaves no point to running teams with more than 6 forwards, 4 D and a goalie. Might as well reduce rosters to 3 forward lines, and 4 D at that point. The defense in this case seem mostly okay to be honest with just the 2 stand outs.

A suggestion for the reduce it camp. Set the minimum required for players on the roster to play 5v5 at a hard 10% and max of 50%.

Special teams + 5v5 time together cannot go over 120% when added together. Would allow something like 40% 5v5, 40% PP, 40% PK. is more than reasonable. still would most likely log the most 5v5 time on team, and be on 2nd pairings of special teams.

But as I said, it all depends what this league is aiming for. More a realism approach for comparable playing time, or meh, it's a sim league go with it. Thoughts?

ArGarBarGar · 02-23-2017, 09:35 PM

I feel like if you can't doubleshift guys you won't see this stuff nearly as much.

Would need to be tested, but it seems like the simplest solution.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

Possum Queen · 02-23-2017, 09:35 PM

The consensus thus far has been that playing time restrictions hit rebuilding teams and/or teams with thinner rosters too hard, and that it starts putting things into "not fun" territory.

If you look at things right now, Banananov is leading the league in goals and tied for the points lead at just shy of 20:00 ATOI. More playing time does inflate things to some degree, but it's not as though that's the only factor.

I definitely have opinions on what works best when it comes to playing time, but I don't think there's much of a reason to change anything right now.

Rabidsponge21 · 02-23-2017, 09:40 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Tanner@Feb 23 2017, 08:35 PM
The consensus thus far has been that playing time restrictions hit rebuilding teams and/or teams with thinner rosters too hard, and that it starts putting things into "not fun" territory.

If you look at things right now, Banananov is leading the league in goals and tied for the points lead at just shy of 20:00 ATOI. More playing time does inflate things to some degree, but it's not as though that's the only factor.

I definitely have opinions on what works best when it comes to playing time, but I don't think there's much of a reason to change anything right now.

What do you mean by not fun? In that, because their team lacks the depth needed to field an active and competitive roster they get down about things cause their team does poorly?

I mean I do feel a bit for teams that get stuck in a rut where they may only be left with say 6 actives, but thats the eb and flow of a league. Gotta piece together what you can for now, sign some inactives and draft well. Seems a bit unfair that because your shorthanded, you can just play your top players half of the game to make up for it, and stay potentially competitive no?

Rabidsponge21 · 02-23-2017, 09:41 PM

Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Feb 23 2017, 08:35 PM
I feel like if you can't doubleshift guys you won't see this stuff nearly as much.

Would need to be tested, but it seems like the simplest solution.

Not about to admit being an STHS expert, but why is there the need for that anyways? would a say 40-30-20-10 not work well enough for say forwards for dividing up time?

50-30-20 likewise for D?

***Ohtaay*** · 02-23-2017, 09:42 PM

How much effect does endurance actually have in the sim, in regards to making players play worse with increased time played?

Would setting a cap for endurance make any effect?

Possum Queen · 02-23-2017, 09:45 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Rabidsponge21@Feb 23 2017, 08:40 PM

What do you mean by not fun? In that, because their team lacks the depth needed to field an active and competitive roster they get down about things cause their team does poorly?

I mean I do feel a bit for teams that get stuck in a rut where they may only be left with say 6 actives, but thats the eb and flow of a league. Gotta piece together what you can for now, sign some inactives and draft well. Seems a bit unfair that because your shorthanded, you can just play your top players half of the game to make up for it, and stay potentially competitive no?

Yeah, that's more or less been the argument, I think.

I honestly prefer to side with realism, and I've been on that side of this argument in the past. But as I said, the consensus thus far has been that it's an unnecessary change.

As for remaining competitive.. Well, yes and no? I think it's worth noting that for the last several seasons, the cup-winning team has been one that keeps ice times reasonable, not one that plays their skaters for 30 minutes a game.

Possum Queen · 02-23-2017, 09:46 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Rabidsponge21@Feb 23 2017, 08:41 PM

Not about to admit being an STHS expert, but why is there the need for that anyways? would a say 40-30-20-10 not work well enough for say forwards for dividing up time?

50-30-20 likewise for D?

People don't want to play low-TPE inactives is what it comes down to. They'd rather have their better players pull an extra shift.

Possum Queen · 02-23-2017, 09:48 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Ohtaay@Feb 23 2017, 08:42 PM
How much effect does endurance actually have in the sim, in regards to making players play worse with increased time played?

Would setting a cap for endurance make any effect?

There's no concrete evidence either way, I don't think, but I'm of the belief that it does factor into things a decent amount.

As for setting a cap for endurance .. I think it would make a difference, yeah, but again, I don't think it's necessary. Generally speaking, teams that manage ice time well are going to do better than teams that don't, with the occasional exception.

Possum Queen · 02-23-2017, 09:48 PM

Quad-post, just because I can.

TML99 · 02-23-2017, 09:49 PM

Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Feb 23 2017, 07:35 PM
I feel like if you can't doubleshift guys you won't see this stuff nearly as much.

Would need to be tested, but it seems like the simplest solution.

and then bye bye send downs </3

Rabidsponge21 · 02-23-2017, 09:51 PM

I mean I'll admit Im on the side of 'close' realism to be honest.

Im an advocate of a larger season. 70-82 games. Mostly cause when I make a player for this sort of stuff (Makes me think NHL Be a PRO! Wink

I'd love to compare my player to some of my favourite NHL defenseman, or forwards, or goalie. That's the half of the fun for creating our imaginary players. To see how you stack up against the greats. Sure as you play on the site more, you might relate to old SHL players, but for someone who hasn't been around for that history here, it's hard to be excited to maybe beat the great records set by Blowjob Jesus Jr. compared to Bobby Orr. But yeah...

And of somewhat restricted ice time. Honestly if forwards were pulling 24 MP a game, it's still over, but I wouldn't really bat and eye at that, but going 25+ is a bit insane. Sure it totally sucks having to play inactives, but that's the nature of the beast. Need to let it motivate you as a team and GM to get those great players to your team to fix that and compete.

sarmo · 02-23-2017, 09:52 PM

Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Feb 23 2017, 07:35 PM
I feel like if you can't doubleshift guys you won't see this stuff nearly as much.

Would need to be tested, but it seems like the simplest solution.

Limiting double shifts would make sense imo

Rabidsponge21 · 02-23-2017, 09:53 PM

Quote:Originally posted by TML99@Feb 23 2017, 08:49 PM

and then bye bye send downs </3

I dont think that would cause some massive exodus from juniors. A lot of the recent players I have seen have wanted to stay a 2nd or 3rd season.

TML99 · 02-23-2017, 09:57 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Rabidsponge21@Feb 23 2017, 07:53 PM

I dont think that would cause some massive exodus from juniors. A lot of the recent players I have seen have wanted to stay a 2nd or 3rd season.

Oh I just meant if you need a full roster of 20 decent skaters because you can't double shift I'm sure GMs would have to call up a lot more guys

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