shoutout to <a href='index.php?showuser=1322' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-13'>mpc</a> for his commentary in his cast
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So I love this still being a thing. Good shit, <a href='index.php?showuser=2651' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-3'>gfridge</a>!
A few notes:
- The build diversity conversation has less to do with individual attributes and more to do with the version of STHS we use/settings we have in that sim. We don't use injuries or morale, and those two aspects of STHS affect gameplay. Injuries off also turns off game-to-game fatigue, so you can play 28 minutes/game and still be at 100.00 Conditioning for the next game. The only thing Endurance, therefore, affects is in-game rerates of attributes by period/shift. There's some equation somewhere I'm too lazy to look up that determines the effect of EN on your attributes as a game goes on, but we have so many players near 90/99 EN that it has little to no effect (you're only 10% worse than you were in the 1st, or even less if the effect is less).
- Rosters are kind of made by SimonT. There are a few places that create updates for NHL rosters and coach sliders, and you can upload those as your new roster. Apparently they use stats to predict attributes, and they also use attributes we don't (EX, LD, PO, MO). Potential, therefore, becomes a more crucial stat, as it is what dictates the STHS rerate that happens while you play the game and advance a season (if you're not constantly uploading a new roster for every season). We don't even use Morale, so it's all moot.
- The version of the sim you use also dictates what stats you have access to. SimonT has never really said why GA/TA are off in newer versions of the sim, but it is off for the one we use. The function is there, though, and technically, there is a way to track it. The SHL used to track it too, before we switched engines.
I know I'm thinking a bit inside the STHS box for your "generate a simulator for hockey" vibe, but those are my thoughts initially. And I'd love to pod with you sometime, beb :-x
thanks <a href='index.php?showuser=2652' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-3'>Candrews</a> I'm actually super self conscious of my voice, so that means a lot
<a href='index.php?showuser=1322' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-13'>mpc</a> thanks for the info, that definitely helps. Let's chat offline in discord and talk about doing a little joint cast
Yeah fridge you are the Ryan Seacrest of beautiful podcast voices. god bless with that.
Ive seen these screen shots here and there in discord, the thought of having that profile setup is rather exciting... but just wondering how does the league ecosystem deal with a feature that will take away half the jobs in the league?
Quote:Originally posted by Coach Biz@Jun 26 2017, 11:35 AM
Ive seen these screen shots here and there in discord, the thought of having that profile setup is rather exciting... but just wondering how does the league ecosystem deal with a feature that will take away half the jobs in the league?
probably a discussion to find new jobs. maybe some that try to promote activity in the league without requiring artistic skills some how? especially since this system could theoretically take away discussion if people can just use an app to update and don't need to come on to the forums.
The point of paying so well for so many jobs is that they absolutely have to be done to make the league work properly. If they don't have to be done, then the focus moves back to a; media/gfx stuff, and b; trying to actually get the best possible contract you can (something most people don't bother doing).
Quote:Originally posted by Avakael@Jun 26 2017, 08:32 PM The point of paying so well for so many jobs is that they absolutely have to be done to make the league work properly. If they don't have to be done, then the focus moves back to a; media/gfx stuff, and b; trying to actually get the best possible contract you can (something most people don't bother doing).
Jobs are part of the cycle of activity that the site relies on. Not sure you can cut that out without having a whole new way to earn money... to pay for TPE and other services... to keep the site active and engaged.
Quote:Originally posted by Coach Biz@Jun 27 2017, 10:42 AM
Jobs are part of the cycle of activity that the site relies on. Not sure you can cut that out without having a whole new way to earn money... to pay for TPE and other services... to keep the site active and engaged.
Yeah I get into this in the podcast towards the end. It's a solvable problem, but it's a problem that would still need to be solved.
The fact of the matter is, we're not just inventing jobs and positions to keep the economy afloat. We've got jobs that need to be done, people that need to be compensated for doing them, and thus we've priced things accordingly. We can simply change the prices or create other (more rewarding/less laborious) opportunities for people to make money.
Ashamed to say I'm finally getting around to this after seeing you talk about it so much in the DET Discord. I was definitely apprehensive going in because I am the furthest thing from a developer guy, but you actually present the information in a very accessible way even for my dumb ass. I enjoyed it a lot, and I learned a lot about what you're doing.
Just some things to add in passing that aren't already touched on in the above, more timely comments.
- The "free" version of STHS does not allow you to run sims. It is merely a "client" file which allows a coach to edit lines and submit them (via email, dropbox, whatever the simmer prefers) rather than using a text-based line template that requires manual changes. Some simmers prefer using that, some prefer the text-based method, but that's what the "free" sim does.
Similarly, the download link in the index file is for the free client application. It has a different extension than the full-blown league file you'd need to run test sims.
- To touch on <a href='index.php?showuser=1322' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-13'>mpc</a>'s point on build diversity ... don't disagree with anything you said, Clards, but would like to add something that I think goes drastically under-discussed in any diversity conversation is the role of the defense attribute in the sim. It's easily the most important stat in STHS, and it's not even close. For instance, if you want to be a defensive defenseman, you obviously put points into defense. But if you want to be a prolific scoring sniper ... you also have to put a ton of points into defense. You cannot build a truly successful one-way offensive player in this league, even with 99 scoring/skating/puck handling. It's completely counter-intuitive and confuses rookies when you explain it to them for the first time, but it's absolutely vital for building a good player regardless of what you want that player to do. That is probably the biggest factor in the conversation, and yet it hardly ever gets mentioned. The sim really handcuffs us in that regard.
- Perhaps most importantly, I appreciate someone entering the conversation admitting they don't have all the answers. Egos can be a terrible thing in these parts, so it's refreshing to see someone having some of the conversations and ideas you have with a rational frame of mind. I do think some of them, particularly in the last 15-20 minutes or so, are a bit radical for our league, but at least I know I can say that without you telling me to go fuck myself with a rusty switchblade.
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 30 2017, 10:19 PM Ashamed to say I'm finally getting around to this after seeing you talk about it so much in the DET Discord. I was definitely apprehensive going in because I am the furthest thing from a developer guy, but you actually present the information in a very accessible way even for my dumb ass. I enjoyed it a lot, and I learned a lot about what you're doing.
Just some things to add in passing that aren't already touched on in the above, more timely comments.
- The "free" version of STHS does not allow you to run sims. It is merely a "client" file which allows a coach to edit lines and submit them (via email, dropbox, whatever the simmer prefers) rather than using a text-based line template that requires manual changes. Some simmers prefer using that, some prefer the text-based method, but that's what the "free" sim does.
Similarly, the download link in the index file is for the free client application. It has a different extension than the full-blown league file you'd need to run test sims.
- To touch on <a href='index.php?showuser=1322' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-13'>mpc</a>'s point on build diversity ... don't disagree with anything you said, Clards, but would like to add something that I think goes drastically under-discussed in any diversity conversation is the role of the defense attribute in the sim. It's easily the most important stat in STHS, and it's not even close. For instance, if you want to be a defensive defenseman, you obviously put points into defense. But if you want to be a prolific scoring sniper ... you also have to put a ton of points into defense. You cannot build a truly successful one-way offensive player in this league, even with 99 scoring/skating/puck handling. It's completely counter-intuitive and confuses rookies when you explain it to them for the first time, but it's absolutely vital for building a good player regardless of what you want that player to do. That is probably the biggest factor in the conversation, and yet it hardly ever gets mentioned. The sim really handcuffs us in that regard.
- Perhaps most importantly, I appreciate someone entering the conversation admitting they don't have all the answers. Egos can be a terrible thing in these parts, so it's refreshing to see someone having some of the conversations and ideas you have with a rational frame of mind. I do think some of them, particularly in the last 15-20 minutes or so, are a bit radical for our league, but at least I know I can say that without you telling me to go fuck myself with a rusty switchblade.
- Hope your pupper makes a speedy recovery.
Can't wait to hear more.
Definitely agree with everything here, Defense is a weirdly overall attribute in STHS. Somehow I think it got lumped in as an Awareness attribute, and that's not really the right way to think about awareness, though it shouldn't be excluded either. There needs to be offensive and defensive awareness, and I don't think we have that split.
Also how dare you, I will fuck your grandchildren with a whole ensemble of corroded chainsaws :lol:
Thanks for the feedback <a href='index.php?showuser=2327' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-69'>ztevans</a>!
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans+Jun 30 2017, 10:19 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1' id='QUOTE-WRAP'><tr><td>QUOTE (ztevans @ Jun 30 2017, 10:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
- The "free" version of STHS does not allow you to run sims. It is merely a "client" file which allows a coach to edit lines and submit them (via email, dropbox, whatever the simmer prefers) rather than using a text-based line template that requires manual changes. Some simmers prefer using that, some prefer the text-based method, but that's what the "free" sim does.
Similarly, the download link in the index file is for the free client application. It has a different extension than the full-blown league file you'd need to run test sims.
[/b]
To clarify, you can actually get the full STHS binary from the website (not the Client) and run it without a license. It just doesn't allow certain features, so you actually can run sims you just can't save it (and thus can't run a proper league). I don't think you can use the file from the website though, someone had to give me another dump if I remember correctly but my memory's hazy.
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Jun 30 2017, 10:19 PM<br />
- To touch on <a href='index.php?showuser=1322' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-13'>mpc</a>'s point on build diversity ... don't disagree with anything you said, Clards, but would like to add something that I think goes drastically under-discussed in any diversity conversation is the role of the defense attribute in the sim. It's easily the most important stat in STHS, and it's not even close. For instance, if you want to be a defensive defenseman, you obviously put points into defense. But if you want to be a prolific scoring sniper ... you also have to put a ton of points into defense. You cannot build a truly successful one-way offensive player in this league, even with 99 scoring/skating/puck handling. It's completely counter-intuitive and confuses rookies when you explain it to them for the first time, but it's absolutely vital for building a good player regardless of what you want that player to do. That is probably the biggest factor in the conversation, and yet it hardly ever gets mentioned. The sim really handcuffs us in that regard.
This, combined with finding the sweet spot of randomness, is what concerns me about STHS. Again, I'm not faulting Simon T because this was never meant to be used for sim leagues. However, it's clear that there are certain attributes that are OP (like Defense) and others that are basically dumb for us to invest points in (like Fighting/Penalty Shots).
<!--QuoteBegin-ztevans@Jun 30 2017, 10:19 PM
- Perhaps most importantly, I appreciate someone entering the conversation admitting they don't have all the answers. Egos can be a terrible thing in these parts, so it's refreshing to see someone having some of the conversations and ideas you have with a rational frame of mind. I do think some of them, particularly in the last 15-20 minutes or so, are a bit radical for our league, but at least I know I can say that without you telling me to go fuck myself with a rusty switchblade. [/quote]
I don't think most of these things have a de facto "right" answer, but in all of my experience in product design the biggest thing I've learned is that there's degrees of wrongness. You can usually steer clear of "stupidly ultimate wrong" if you make planned, calculated decisions.
I agree that some/all of the ideas I put forth towards the end were pretty radical, but I also think that if we were to consider replacing the sim engine with one that's designed for a TPE/RPG experience then it'd make sense to consider other parts of the league that should be adjusted for it too.
gfridge![[Image: HHqnPVr.png]](http://i.imgur.com/HHqnPVr.png)
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