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Slappydoodle · 03-26-2018, 12:37 AM

Quote:Originally posted by artermis@Mar 25 2018, 11:55 AM

I mean, real talk

In short, I think it's safe to say that all the best players to have ever played in the league are playing now or have played recently, due to the fact that the game has evolved so much. For instance, if Orr and Gretzky played in today's league, I highly doubt they'd be noticeable as stars, perhaps, and this is only optimistically, as strong second liners.

I love you brother, now and always but....... You really need to get off the pipe kid. Remember, dope is for dopes.

Cheers

ORIGINSZ · 03-26-2018, 01:07 AM

Even Era Adjusted Gretzky finishes first. Its just not as big a gap, and he loses a few records like most goals in a season to Ovi/Hull. Saying he is a second liner in todays NHL does baffle me. Arguements can be made for players better in NHL history like Lemiuex/Orr etc

***artermis*** · 03-26-2018, 01:53 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Slappydoodle@Mar 26 2018, 12:37 AM

I love you brother, now and always but....... You really need to get off the pipe kid. Remember, dope is for dopes.

Jokes on u

I'm as clean as a . . . . well, I'm clean.

***artermis*** · 03-26-2018, 01:58 PM

Quote:Originally posted by ORIGINSZ@Mar 26 2018, 01:07 AM
Even Era Adjusted Gretzky finishes first. Its just not as big a gap, and he loses a few records like most goals in a season to Ovi/Hull. Saying he is a second liner in todays NHL does baffle me. Arguements can be made for players better in NHL history like Lemiuex/Orr etc

What I was going at really goes beyond stats.

For instance, I'm sure, when adjusted, Joe Malone's numbers are huge, but I'd be curious if he could even crack an NHL squad today.

As for Gretzky, I retracted the strongest of my statements, as there are definitely parts of Gretzky's game that fit into today's and he'd likely be adaptable enough to fit in as a potentially strong player, once again I'd just like to to say that it's not my fault that all I've seen of his highlights are unimpressive slapshots and quick stickhandles that are trivial in today's hockey.

The biggest questions to me are if Gretzky can handle the pace and skating style of the new age of hockey (from what I can tell, he has great skating ability, so even if he's not as quick he could likely slow down play) and, most importantly, how Gretzky would fare against modern-day goaltenders. Perhaps today's defenders would be a problem as well, but I don't know any particular attributes that have changed drastically with defence.

Beaver · 03-26-2018, 03:18 PM

Quote:Originally posted by artermis@Mar 26 2018, 12:58 PM

What I was going at really goes beyond stats.

For instance, I'm sure, when adjusted, Joe Malone's numbers are huge, but I'd be curious if he could even crack an NHL squad today.

As for Gretzky, I retracted the strongest of my statements, as there are definitely parts of Gretzky's game that fit into today's and he'd likely be adaptable enough to fit in as a potentially strong player, once again I'd just like to to say that it's not my fault that all I've seen of his highlights are unimpressive slapshots and quick stickhandles that are trivial in today's hockey.

The biggest questions to me are if Gretzky can handle the pace and skating style of the new age of hockey (from what I can tell, he has great skating ability, so even if he's not as quick he could likely slow down play) and, most importantly, how Gretzky would fare against modern-day goaltenders. Perhaps today's defenders would be a problem as well, but I don't know any particular attributes that have changed drastically with defence.

I do think it's underappreciated just how much "sports science," training, etc has advanced even within our lifetimes and so I tend to agree with you that if 18 year old Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, etc somehow time traveled to 2005 and entered the league they wouldn't have been nearly as great as they were in their own era. That said, who's to say that if Gretzky was born in 1991 instead of 1961 that he wouldn't have been just as dominant now than he was with a better body of knowledge about diets, training, etc? To me it's important to keep in mind not only the differences in era for scoring (ie: it's much more impressive to score 100 points in 2001 than it was in 1985) but also the advantage that modern players have with more information available to them.

Muerto · 03-26-2018, 03:35 PM

1. Am I maybe the only person around who ever watched Gretzky in his prime? The guy was so far ahead of everyone else he played with. He was unreal. I do agree that he played in a generally slower overall league, compared to today's game, But he didn't set all those records by fluke, he was that fucking good.
2. Bobby Orr - redefined what was possible for a defenseman
3. Gordie Howe - Gretzky and Orr say he was the bets, so, I trust them
4. Mario Lemieux - size and talent, and one of the nicer players I have met in person
5. Connor McDavid - still a lot to prove but fuck he is so good and so exciting and will probably be number 1 on my list before long
6. Paul Coffey - homer bias for sure but he was Orr 2.0
7. Glenn Anderson - I modeled my game after his, speedy fearless playmaker
8. Mark Messier - fucked shit up
9. Sidney Crosby - golden goal will live forever
10. Pavel Bure - I normally hate the Canucks but I loved his speed and flash

***Hallsy*** · 03-26-2018, 06:22 PM

Arty. Gretzky wasnt the most skilled player during his time. The thing that made him so great that he was ten steps ahead of everyone on the ice.

***artermis*** · 03-26-2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:Originally posted by ThatDamnMcJesus@Mar 26 2018, 06:22 PM
Arty. Gretzky wasnt the most skilled player during his time. The thing that made him so great that he was ten steps ahead of everyone on the ice.

Couldn't agree more, I think another thing that set him apart (and also while trying to avoid the cheesy chess analogies that so many people use) was the fact that he played hockey as it would become after he retired, save for the speed of the play.

***artermis*** · 03-26-2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:Originally posted by Beaver@Mar 26 2018, 03:18 PM

I do think it's underappreciated just how much "sports science," training, etc has advanced even within our lifetimes and so I tend to agree with you that if 18 year old Bobby Orr, Wayne Gretzky, etc somehow time traveled to 2005 and entered the league they wouldn't have been nearly as great as they were in their own era. That said, who's to say that if Gretzky was born in 1991 instead of 1961 that he wouldn't have been just as dominant now than he was with a better body of knowledge about diets, training, etc? To me it's important to keep in mind not only the differences in era for scoring (ie: it's much more impressive to score 100 points in 2001 than it was in 1985) but also the advantage that modern players have with more information available to them.

OH no, I absolutely agree.

Due to concepts such as tabula rasa, Gretzky/Orr could be just as good, worse or not play hockey at all had they been born at a later date, but in the interests of the second type of "greatest ever" list I defined earlier, I think that's too much of a liberty to take

CFJ · 03-26-2018, 06:33 PM

I'm liking the discussion here surrounding The Great One.

Thanks to prettyburn, TML, Carpy, JNH, Jepox, Engi, Karey, Flappy, Skolpadder, Mook, DollarAndADream, Smirnov and Toe for the sigs.

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