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Rabidsponge21 · 05-13-2018, 08:15 AM

So I sort of took the idea for the media piece I did a while back trying to measure the effectiveness of a players hitting from the base stats given by the sim. No sorry I did not go back and check PbP's and see which hit caused a loss of puck control, but I still think this method of meausre can be sort of looked at when considering what a good 'checking' build entails.

(970 words + Spread sheet)

Spread sheet link

So the main stats we are going to work with here are….

Penalty Minutes
Hits
Hits Taken
Hits – Hits Taken = Hit Differential
Minutes Played
MP vs PIM – More or less the amount of PIM taken vs the time on ice for that player over the last five seasons.

I didn’t cover everyone in the league. I sort of cherry picked who I saw as being some of the top checkers on teams scoring sheets as the season went along. I also tossed in Randy Randleman as a comparison to see as he used to be one of the big Hit’s leaders but since regression has started has taken that out of his game. On my spread sheet as well (when I link it further down) you will see the listed Checking and discipline of each player as well heading into this season as a way to sort of see any trends.

So lets dive into some ‘leader’ boards first.

Top 10 PIM
1) Panthers

Danny Foster - 610
2) Wolfpack

Mia Landvik - 386
3) Jets

Vatislav Orlov - 363
4) Riot

Brett Kennedy - 358
5) Dragons

Adam Kaiser - 332
6) Panthers

Maximilian Wachter - 331
7) Jets

Big Manious - 320
8) Shl

Lord Vader - 302
9) Stampede

Brynjar Tusk – 293
10) Chiefs

Johnathan Lundberg - 284

Top 10 Hits
1) Panthers

Maximilian Wachter - 1014
2) Chiefs

Johnathan Lunberg - 981
3) Panthers

Danny Foster - 873
4) Shl

Lord Vader - 302
5) Riot

Brett Kennedy - 817
6) pride

Kelly Rivet - 761
7) Dragons

Mike Izzy - 750
8) Renegades

Vasily Horvat - 747
9) Jets

Vatislav Orlov - 732
10) Dragons

Adam Kaiser – 728

Top 10 HTT
1) Blizzard

Ace Redding - 719
2) Chiefs

Lord Pretty Flacko - 671
3) Dragons

Randy Randleman - 650
4) Riot

Bretty Kennedy - 610
5) Stars

Chris York - 598
6) Chiefs

Sebastian Strange - 595
7) Chiefs

Johnathan Lundberg - 574
8) Jets

Zach Evans - 556
9) pride

Kelly Rivet - 543
10) Platoon

Miko Linna – 538

Top 10 Hit Differential
1) Panthers

Danny Foster - 636
2) Panthers

Maximilian Wachter - 587
3) Dragons

Mike Izzy - 528
4) Dragons

Adam Kaiser - 463
5) Wolfpack

Mia Landvik - 447
6) Jets

Vatislav Orlov - 436
7) Shl

Lord Vader - 426
8) Chiefs

Johnathan Lundberg - 407
9) Jets

Big Manious - 347
10) Platoon

Maria Maximova – 337

Top 10 Minutes Played
1) Shl

Lord Vader - 6624
2) Jets

Corey Bearss - 6395
3) Chiefs

Lord Pretty Flacko - 6281
4) Blizzard

Ace Redding - 6176
5) Dragons

Randy Randleman - 6047
6) Stampede

Brynjar Tusk - 6045
7) Chiefs

Johnathan Lundberg - 6032
8) Platoon

Mikko Linna - 6019
9) Jets

Zach Evans - 6010
10) Dragons

Adam Kaiser - 5992

So with all of that out of the way lets not sort of absorb it all in and break this down a bit more with the MP vs PIM. First Lets have a look at the top 10 checking players who while hitting are still able to stay on the ice while throwing the body around.

1) Dragons

Randy Randleman – 1.93%
2) Blizzard

Cory Knouse – 2.41%
3) Platoon

Miko Linna – 2.49%
4) Platoon

Alex Light – 2.68%
5) Jets

Corey Bearss – 2.71%
6) Wolfpack

Patrikov Bure – 2.82%
7) Steelhawks

Brennan Kennedy – 2.87%
8) Blizzard

Ace Redding – 2.93%
9) Dragons

Dani Forsberg – 2.96%
10) Jets

Zach Evans – 3.16%

So does this mean these are your most effective checkers overall? Not necessarily. These just those who throw some checks (minus Randleman being our sort of Placebo here) and manage to stay out of the box with the best efficiency in relation to the minutes they play. I feel like we need to pair this with the Hit Differential to really sort of pair it up to make a final list, which I will do below, before we do that, lets look at the worst PP vs MP 1st.

1) Panthers

Danny Foster – 12.70%
2) Wolfpack

Mia Landvik – 6.97%
3) Riot

Brett Kennedy – 6.93%
4) pride

Clint Eastwood – 6.28%
5) Renegades

Vasily Horvat – 6.16%
6) Jets

Vatislav Orlov – 6.15%
7) Panthers

Maximilian Wachter - 5.64%
8) Jets

Big Manious – 5.59%
T-9) Dragons

Adam Kaiser – 5.54%
T-9) Dragons

Mike Izzy – 5.54%
10) Blizzard

Teddy Cuddles – 5.34%

So this shouldn’t come as too large of a surprise that the enforcer tops the list, but dear lord does Foster put himself in a league of his own nearly doubling the next closest on the list. These players are the ones who in relation to their playing time they receive, are in the box the most per Minute played.

So if my arm was twisted and I HAD to create a list of who I thought was the best checkers in the last 5 seasons. It would probably go something like this (based on PP vs MP + Hit Differential)

1) Wolfpack

Patrikov Bure
2) Steelhawks

Brennan Kennedy
3) Jets

Corey Bearss
4) Blizzard

Ace Redding
5) Dragons

Dani Forsberg
6) Stars

Chris York
7) Chiefs

Sebastian Strange
8) pride

Kelly Rivet
9) Jets

Pietra Volkova
10) Renegades

Colton Hagan
HM) Lord Vader

DeletedAtUserRequest · 05-13-2018, 08:36 AM

One thing I’d like to point out is Mike Izzy began his career in 37....every player on the top 10 hits list has 2 full seasons on me pertaining to these numbers..so those 750 hits with 2 additional seasons puts me somewhere around 1150 hits which would lead the hits category by more then 150! It would also raise my hit differential from 3rd to 1st in the SHL. IMO If Izzy has to near or at the top of any checking list.

<a href='index.php?showuser=2274' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-66'>Rabidsponge21</a> If there was a media section in the SHL hall of fame.. you would be in it. This is another super post by you!

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kckolbe · 05-13-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Coach Biz@May 13 2018, 05:36 AM
One thing Iâ€™d like to point out is Mike Izzy began his career in 37....every player on the top 10 hits list has 2 full seasons on me pertaining to these numbers. Those 750 hits with 2 additional seasons puts me somewhere around 1150 which would lead the hits category by more then 100. It would also raise my hit differential from 3rd to 1st in the SHL. IMO If Izzy isnâ€™t near the top of any hitters list... the list should be revised.

Great post!

I fully agree. I am counting this as one vote in favor of my hit efficiency formula (which is only single season at the moment).

Rabidsponge21 · 05-13-2018, 08:51 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Coach Biz@May 13 2018, 07:36 AM
One thing Iâ€™d like to point out is Mike Izzy began his career in 37....every player on the top 10 hits list has 2 full seasons on me pertaining to these numbers..so those 750 hits with 2 additional seasons puts me somewhere around 1150 hits which would lead the hits category by more then 150! It would also raise my hit differential from 3rd to 1st in the SHL. IMO If Izzy isnâ€™t near the top of any checking list... the list should be revised.

Great post!

I mean yes, you might be top of the pecking order for those lists, but still wouldn't change the fact Izzy is not checking very effectively as he is taking too many penalties in relation to his hits. If he could lower the ratio to the 3.5% range, then he would be #1 overall for sure.

DeletedAtUserRequest · 05-13-2018, 09:04 AM

Ahh that’s right the PIMs... that’s a good point LKS.

Izzy got into a lot of fights early in his career, he wanted to make an impression and added allot of PIMs for brawling. In s39 I had 209 hits while getting into 6 fights which equates to 30 Minutes in the box . I ended with 80 Penalty minutes which is high but without the fights it was 50 which is a fair number for a bruiser. Last season I took the fighting numbers down and ended with a 200/32 hits to PIM ratio which is very good...

But It would be a brutal task to differentiate penalties that were related to hit efficiency and which were for fighting.

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kckolbe · 05-13-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:Originally posted by Coach Biz@May 13 2018, 06:04 AM
But It would be a brutal task to differentiate penalties that were related to hit efficiency and which were for fighting.

It's not hard at all. Fighting penalties are broken out separately in the index. So I subtract them from the PIM total, as fights penalize the opponent as well, so basically are a non-factor.

***DrunkenTeddy*** · 05-13-2018, 09:35 AM

Hits taken is a weird stat in STHS, some of those hits are during faceoffs so you'll see it being higher for centers. In addition, it shows all hits taken, even if you continue to have the pick after it. With injuries off those hits mean nothing really.

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ztevans · 05-13-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:Originally posted by kckolbe@May 13 2018, 08:08 AM

It's not hard at all.  Fighting penalties are broken out separately in the index.  So I subtract them from the PIM total, as fights penalize the opponent as well, so basically are a non-factor.

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to say they are a non-factor. Yes, they take an opponent with you, but you DO have to go away for five minutes. If you're a good player (and especially if you don't fight an equally good or better player) that's a loss for your team because even if you're playing even-strength, the team must account for your absence.

kckolbe · 05-13-2018, 09:59 AM

Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@May 13 2018, 06:35 AM

Eh, I wouldn't go as far as to say they are a non-factor. Yes, they take an opponent with you, but you DO have to go away for five minutes. If you're a good player (and especially if you don't fight an equally good or better player) that's a loss for your team because even if you're playing even-strength, the team must account for your absence.

The opposite is true as well, though. If the person you fight is better, you've helped your team. Over the course of a career they should roughly balance out.

ztevans · 05-13-2018, 10:26 AM

Quote:Originally posted by kckolbe@May 13 2018, 08:59 AM

The opposite is true as well, though.  If the person you fight is better, you've helped your team.  Over the course of a career they should roughly balance out.

You still haven't really helped your team because you can't play for five minutes :lol: It's a marginal gain for fucking up your lines for that span, especially if you are a key player. Take my player, for example. Regardless of who I fight, if I'm not in the lineup, someone with 40 faceoffs probably has to take my spot in the second line, which hurts our possession during that span even though it is even-strength. That's not factoring in any chemistry issues that could develop with the makeshift line or pairing.

kckolbe · 05-13-2018, 10:28 AM

Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@May 13 2018, 07:26 AM

You still haven't really helped your team because you can't play for five minutes  :lol: It's a marginal gain for fucking up your lines for that span, especially if you are a key player. Take my player, for example. Regardless of who I fight, if I'm not in the lineup, someone with 40 faceoffs probably has to take my spot in the second line, which hurts our possession during that span even though it is even-strength. That's not factoring in any chemistry issues that could develop with the makeshift line or pairing.

You are only thinking of yourself (I wanted to say it that way). What about an 800 TPE scrub like me fighting you? I have done my team a HUGE favor by eliminating both of us.

ztevans · 05-13-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:Originally posted by kckolbe@May 13 2018, 09:28 AM

You are only thinking of yourself (I wanted to say it that way).  What about an 800 TPE scrub like me fighting you?  I have done my team a HUGE favor by eliminating both of us.

Okay, but what happens in your absence? Using last season's lines and builds, so not a precise analogy, but what if you are replaced on the second line by <a href='index.php?showuser=2873' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-34'>karey</a>? His player is a fair bit worse by virtue of being younger, and has a completely different decision-making ratio that would likely hamper his performance with Selich and Koroviev. So did you really?

TheWoZy · 05-13-2018, 10:41 AM

<a href='index.php?showuser=2873' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-34'>karey</a> is a scrub

karey · 05-13-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:Originally posted by TheWoZy@May 13 2018, 06:41 AM
<a href='index.php?showuser=2873' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-34'>karey</a> is a scrub

:(

***WannabeFinn*** · 05-13-2018, 10:45 AM

Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@May 13 2018, 09:32 AM

Okay, but what happens in your absence? Using last season's lines and builds, so not a precise analogy, but what if you are replaced on the second line by <a href='index.php?showuser=2873' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-34'>karey</a>? His player is a fair bit worse by virtue of being younger, and has a completely different decision-making ratio that would likely hamper his performance with Selich and Koroviev. So did you really?

but at the same time you're off the ice and your line chemistry and possession are hampered Hmm

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