08-22-2018, 04:48 PMjRuutu Wrote: But still you want answers from someone who is not in the HO? If you know who is in the HO, why are you asking me to give you the names? How the conversation started is a good place to start on finding out who the snakes are. I´m surprised if the idea and the users who were backing it up in the beginning are not standing in the PBE/NFSL user corner.
Hi it's me the sneaky snake that suggested this and would absolutely love to completely destroy the league by gifting 15 TPE per season. So if you would like to attack me to my face now that would be cool.
Hello! Do you see any problem in the fact that you are a HO member in SHL and suggested the idea of teaming up with NFSL/PBE, while also being part of at least one of NFSL/PBE?
Hi! I see no problem because I'm still going to be half active in both of those as I am now. I haven't even taken advantage of the affiliation that they already had together except I think once. I did this because I want to see this league grow and get better every single day. Since I've come here this league has been my number 1 and since being in HO everything I've done and proposed has had the league's best interest in mind. I apologize that you don't agree with me and I feel like no matter how much we can tell you otherwise you wouldn't agree anyways. So it's honestly not worth my time to argue with you endlessly going in loops. Which is what this entire thread has been now. We will collect data and as long as this is indeed helping the league than that is all that matters. Your idea of helping the league might differ from mine or even someone else's. If you feel so strongly about these things I suggest you actually apply for a HO position the next time they open up instead of playing armchair HO and acting like your opinion is correct no matter what anyone else tells you. Then you can help argue for or against the changes you want instead of making a fuss about something that honestly doesn't even effect you because again as others have said, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PARTICIPATE.
At the end of the day I wish we could make everyone happy with this decision and I knew going in that we wouldn't but to be brutally honest we've had a lot more support for it than against it, so sucks to be you I guess.
Would it be fair to say that a user who is going to most likely benefit from this PT affiliation is a semi active in PBE/NFSL, but is active in SHL?
I´m sure you and others have done great job in the HO and what you say is true, you try to make SHL a better place. Also true that we don´t agree on this case and no matter what you or anyone else from the bandwagon say - we are not going to see eye to eye.
What comes down to joining HO, I will never even think about applying and I think it´s almost unfair for you to even suggest anything like that, you think I have the time to be part of something like that? I´m already stretched to my limits by having to do the PT´s here in SHL just to keep up. If only I could just do nothing in SHL and claim TPE for it, there is a topic for you guys to talk about in HO next: how can ´SHL only´ users claim TPE from PT´s without actually doing the PT´s?
Who would have guessed that PBE/NFSL users are so happy for something like this to be added in?
Dear god... Ruutu... Man I love you dude. But shit son.
This is a god damn trial. Let it be. This has been talked about for some time now, long before I arrived and data never kills anyone nor a league. Let us put in the due diligence on the matter and make a commitment following the study of said data. I don't care who is part of what league outside of this troll-loving conundrum we call home here at the SHL. At some point we need to act and decide what our long term goals are and being someone who is in the marketing avenue, getting measurements of an avenue only is good for us. Whether it is good for us permanently is yet to obviously be determined... but if the critics of the entire process in this thread would step up and use some of these words wasted here for solid media... well hell, we may stop hearing complaints of lack luster media starting to subside as well.
As for those always ready to lynch the PT team... If you can do better step to the plate and take a swing. They invest a shit ton of time to continue to push the development of YOUR player. Being able to do a five minute podcast for a PT won't stop the shit slinging when it comes to critiquing. I've been there... I've been the head of the PT team and gave the reigns to @Pris and now will be taking them back. During my initial time we addressed the length of PTs and also addressed variety. Unfortunately, many fun ideas get shot down in fear of this exact criticism and at the possibility of not getting full TPE for a PT or via Predictions.
So how do you appease the masses? Well... you can't. But data can at least lead you to the best option.
08-22-2018, 05:54 PMErM Wrote: I think if we get another 30 pages I might be convinced this affiliation thing is a bad idea.
I don't give a shit who the fuck you think you are, you have no fucking right to act like a princess fucking bitch. If you want to keep fucking being a bitch to people, just stay the fuck out of the threads. You have no right to make it sound like my fanhood is all for naught, like I have no fucking reason for hope. What am I allowed, oh fucking great one? I'm allowed to fucking sit around and treat you like fucking gold because you want it? Fuck the fuck off you fucking cunt. I hope you fucking enjoy hell
08-22-2018, 05:54 PMErM Wrote: I think if we get another 30 pages I might be convinced this affiliation thing is a bad idea.
I don't give a shit who the fuck you think you are, you have no fucking right to act like a princess fucking bitch. If you want to keep fucking being a bitch to people, just stay the fuck out of the threads. You have no right to make it sound like my fanhood is all for naught, like I have no fucking reason for hope. What am I allowed, oh fucking great one? I'm allowed to fucking sit around and treat you like fucking gold because you want it? Fuck the fuck off you fucking cunt. I hope you fucking enjoy hell
I am truly honored to have shared a locker room with you these past weeks.
08-22-2018, 05:54 PMErM Wrote: I think if we get another 30 pages I might be convinced this affiliation thing is a bad idea.
I don't give a shit who the fuck you think you are, you have no fucking right to act like a princess fucking bitch. If you want to keep fucking being a bitch to people, just stay the fuck out of the threads. You have no right to make it sound like my fanhood is all for naught, like I have no fucking reason for hope. What am I allowed, oh fucking great one? I'm allowed to fucking sit around and treat you like fucking gold because you want it? Fuck the fuck off you fucking cunt. I hope you fucking enjoy hell
I am truly honored to have shared a locker room with you these past weeks.
08-22-2018, 06:20 PM(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018, 06:20 PM by jRuutu.)
08-22-2018, 06:01 PMWally Wrote: Dear god... Ruutu... Man I love you dude. But shit son.
This is a god damn trial. Let it be. This has been talked about for some time now, long before I arrived and data never kills anyone nor a league. Let us put in the due diligence on the matter and make a commitment following the study of said data. I don't care who is part of what league outside of this troll-loving conundrum we call home here at the SHL. At some point we need to act and decide what our long term goals are and being someone who is in the marketing avenue, getting measurements of an avenue only is good for us. Whether it is good for us permanently is yet to obviously be determined... but if the critics of the entire process in this thread would step up and use some of these words wasted here for solid media... well hell, we may stop hearing complaints of lack luster media starting to subside as well.
As for those always ready to lynch the PT team... If you can do better step to the plate and take a swing. They invest a shit ton of time to continue to push the development of YOUR player. Being able to do a five minute podcast for a PT won't stop the shit slinging when it comes to critiquing. I've been there... I've been the head of the PT team and gave the reigns to @Pris and now will be taking them back. During my initial time we addressed the length of PTs and also addressed variety. Unfortunately, many fun ideas get shot down in fear of this exact criticism and at the possibility of not getting full TPE for a PT or via Predictions.
So how do you appease the masses? Well... you can't. But data can at least lead you to the best option.
Sounds like a risky trial. What happens to those users who for whatever reason cant do the PT´s in SHL now,they use and get used to the PT Affiliation setup - what will they do if the SHL asks them to start doing PT´s on SHL again? If they go inactive, what kind of effect that has on both SMJHL and SHL?
Is the success of this trial measured on how many new users join or how many users use the PT affiliation?
08-22-2018, 06:24 PM(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018, 06:25 PM by Radsin.)
08-22-2018, 06:11 PMErM Wrote:
08-22-2018, 06:07 PMRadsin Wrote:
08-22-2018, 05:54 PMErM Wrote: I think if we get another 30 pages I might be convinced this affiliation thing is a bad idea.
I don't give a shit who the fuck you think you are, you have no fucking right to act like a princess fucking bitch. If you want to keep fucking being a bitch to people, just stay the fuck out of the threads. You have no right to make it sound like my fanhood is all for naught, like I have no fucking reason for hope. What am I allowed, oh fucking great one? I'm allowed to fucking sit around and treat you like fucking gold because you want it? Fuck the fuck off you fucking cunt. I hope you fucking enjoy hell
I am truly honored to have shared a locker room with you these past weeks.
Wait, the more I read this the more it sounds like a threat...Is there going to be a trade rumor about me I have to look out for?
08-22-2018, 05:54 PMErM Wrote: I think if we get another 30 pages I might be convinced this affiliation thing is a bad idea.
I don't give a shit who the fuck you think you are, you have no fucking right to act like a princess fucking bitch. If you want to keep fucking being a bitch to people, just stay the fuck out of the threads. You have no right to make it sound like my fanhood is all for naught, like I have no fucking reason for hope. What am I allowed, oh fucking great one? I'm allowed to fucking sit around and treat you like fucking gold because you want it? Fuck the fuck off you fucking cunt. I hope you fucking enjoy hell
I am truly honored to have shared a locker room with you these past weeks.
Wait, the more I read this the more it sounds like a threat...Is there going to be a trade rumor about me I have to look out for?
08-22-2018, 05:54 PMErM Wrote: I think if we get another 30 pages I might be convinced this affiliation thing is a bad idea.
I don't give a shit who the fuck you think you are, you have no fucking right to act like a princess fucking bitch. If you want to keep fucking being a bitch to people, just stay the fuck out of the threads. You have no right to make it sound like my fanhood is all for naught, like I have no fucking reason for hope. What am I allowed, oh fucking great one? I'm allowed to fucking sit around and treat you like fucking gold because you want it? Fuck the fuck off you fucking cunt. I hope you fucking enjoy hell
I am truly honored to have shared a locker room with you these past weeks.
Wait, the more I read this the more it sounds like a threat...Is there going to be a trade rumor about me I have to look out for?
08-22-2018, 06:50 PM(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018, 07:07 PM by Wally.
Edit Reason: clarified the growth in measurements
)
08-22-2018, 06:20 PMjRuutu Wrote:
08-22-2018, 06:01 PMWally Wrote: Dear god... Ruutu... Man I love you dude. But shit son.
This is a god damn trial. Let it be. This has been talked about for some time now, long before I arrived and data never kills anyone nor a league. Let us put in the due diligence on the matter and make a commitment following the study of said data. I don't care who is part of what league outside of this troll-loving conundrum we call home here at the SHL. At some point we need to act and decide what our long term goals are and being someone who is in the marketing avenue, getting measurements of an avenue only is good for us. Whether it is good for us permanently is yet to obviously be determined... but if the critics of the entire process in this thread would step up and use some of these words wasted here for solid media... well hell, we may stop hearing complaints of lack luster media starting to subside as well.
As for those always ready to lynch the PT team... If you can do better step to the plate and take a swing. They invest a shit ton of time to continue to push the development of YOUR player. Being able to do a five minute podcast for a PT won't stop the shit slinging when it comes to critiquing. I've been there... I've been the head of the PT team and gave the reigns to @Pris and now will be taking them back. During my initial time we addressed the length of PTs and also addressed variety. Unfortunately, many fun ideas get shot down in fear of this exact criticism and at the possibility of not getting full TPE for a PT or via Predictions.
So how do you appease the masses? Well... you can't. But data can at least lead you to the best option.
Sounds like a risky trial. What happens to those users who for whatever reason cant do the PT´s in SHL now,they use and get used to the PT Affiliation setup - what will they do if the SHL asks them to start doing PT´s on SHL again? If they go inactive, what kind of effect that has on both SMJHL and SHL?
Is the success of this trial measured on how many new users join or how many users use the PT affiliation?
Explain where the risk is? Instead of the criticism, I want you to take the time and suggest some options for retention. This isn't entirely about acquiring new members... this is about attrition... this is about maintaining growth over an extended period of time. For as long as you have been present here... Same for RED. You guys, and many others, have been devout supporters of the SHL and as a sim league owner, there is no price tag on that. That's not only invaluable, but also cherished by those who do put work into the operation of the league.
So... the question is, what if we do cancel the affiliation? Well we risk losing those members who simply lived on welfare. The same members that wouldn't be here if not for the welfare anyways. Little risk in my book. But even a fraction of that staying would be a more than nothing... and this is if we would discontinue affiliation.
My measurements have literally little to do with growth in number of users and more to do with raising the average of TPE earned per season and quantity of users developing a player. The metrics can't be tied solely to new users... I want the sustainability of a healthy league not a fraction of growers and a mass of showers
Big drafts are awesome... but only if they produce the fruits of lets say a S30 J/S31 class. There has to be a give and take some where down the line. With the growth of leagues around the SHL (maybe not as big, but definitely sustainable), we need to take notice and account for daily time spent per user. While we may be the biggest, we offer little in presentation. We made a great move with the forum, but still lack in presentation from a day to day stand point.
As our users age year by year they will continue to gain responsibilities that take more and more time away from a process that is not only old school (updating and sim wise itself), but literally has to compete with other leagues purely on user time available during every day. We need to adapt at some point, but this doesn't mean we are taking away from the example the SHL has set in terms of sustainable benchmarks in both growth and participation. What it does take is committed users that see the end goal and continuing to find fun in the various competitive ways they do. If they don't then they need to speak up with an understanding that they have people listening, specifically myself.
None of this affiliation takes away from this league... if at all, it adds higher quality of mid-level players from a long term basis, but as I said... that is yet to actually be measured or determined. At the end of S43... there will be plenty of answers to questions and more decisions to make.
08-20-2018, 08:52 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: While that was part of the argument against it we ultimately decided that the PTs are really only worth about 18 TPE a season tops. 5-6 PTs at 3 TPE a piece. Since this doesn't count for weekly training, ACs, various other Point Tasks, and CW, then the amount they really get from this isn't as much as one would think. The things that still set the super active apart from the rest will still have to be earned for those who truly want it.
In the end if it ups activity around the site as well as bringing in new members then the pay off of 18 TPE a season is very much worth it.
I think you are underestimating the impact that PTs have over the course of a career. If I take your estimate of 18 TPE per year, over an average 15 season career that would be 250+ TPE that people from other leagues would get for free. That's a massive amount of TPE to gift someone for not doing any work here on the SHL and something that SHL-only members would either a) not get (if they are semi-active) or b) have to work quite hard for. A hundred or so PTs over the course of a career means that someone is willing to put substantial time into this league, in fact if someone is able to crank out those PTs in just ten minutes, it would be about 16 hours of real life work that go into it. So SHL-only members have to do that work, but people from other leagues who otherwise wouldn't even give the SHL a chance don't? That doesn't sound fair at all, even if it leads to a few new members. It's not like these new members we are bringing in are very likely to be pillars of this community either, as you said yourself they probably wouldn't even have joined if not for some severe handouts. The very core principle of this league is that activity should be rewarded, that it should be the main determining factor of ones success (aside from STHS beloved randomness), softening up that principle is unnecessary and I think counterproductive.
I'll have you know I'm very active in the shl thank you very much
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