Login

nour · 04-23-2019, 01:51 AM

04-23-2019, 01:49 AMJNH Wrote:
04-23-2019, 01:40 AMnour Wrote: If we’re paying a dude every season to do literally one job, that job being compiling a public resource for picks so that we don’t lose track of which pick is where, and then say GMs can’t use that as a viable resource, why have a pick tracker? I’m not trying to fight, but it was obvious a very long time ago that its difficult for GMs to keep track of picks, and the reason the pick tracker job was initially instated was to help make it easier for GMs to follow the paths of their picks, and have a resource to take note of in the event of trades.

What is the pick tracker’s purpose for compiling what is supposed to be a reliable resource of which pick is where, if the GMs shouldn’t use it as a point of reference? Its a useless job by that point

Okay, this makes sense and I'm on board here with a lot of what you say.

I said shortly after that HO needs to clarify what they want here. They've said that GM's are responsible for ensuring that they own their own picks etc. and in that case they need to make it clear that draft pick tracker is just something that is a tool for the public/for double checking but not to be relied upon. Clearly there's a misunderstanding there and it's causing a lot of issues. I wouldn't say draft pick tracker is useless outside of a resource for GM's, I personally like to know what picks various teams own and check it every now and then and I'm sure many other members have used it as a tool as well (e.g for writing media articles).

As a GM, I relied pretty heavily on the draft pick tracker but that was the agreed upon standard back then. It seems HO is moving away from that now, which is fine as long as they clarify that the draft pick tracker is not to be relied upon whatsoever nor will it be an admissible reason for making a mistake.

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this, I think the REAL problem stems from a lack of communication and clarity from HO as to whether or not the pick tracker still serves the function it initially was supposed to have or not

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

FlappyGiraffe · 04-23-2019, 02:20 AM

Since the pick tracker is useless and everyone has to keep their own records of who owns what, should HO be punished as much as STL and COL? Seeing as they were not keeping track of who owns what pick as well when they are the ones who organize and run the draft.

Or is it okay for them to count on the pick tracker but not for gms to....

nour · 04-23-2019, 02:22 AM

04-23-2019, 02:20 AMFlappyGiraffe Wrote: Since the pick tracker is useless and everyone has to keep their own records of who owns what, should HO be punished as much as STL and COL? Seeing as they were not keeping track of who owns what pick as well when they are the ones who organize and run the draft.

Or is it okay for them to count on the pick tracker but not for gms to....

This would imply SMJHL HO is capable of admitting they make mistakes sometimes, and to suggest such is blasphemy or something

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

Sami · 04-23-2019, 02:23 AM

04-23-2019, 02:20 AMFlappyGiraffe Wrote: Since the pick tracker is useless and everyone has to keep their own records of who owns what, should HO be punished as much as STL and COL? Seeing as they were not keeping track of who owns what pick as well when they are the ones who organize and run the draft.

Or is it okay for them to count on the pick tracker but not for gms to....

This. Just get rid of the pick tracker then if no one can rely on it.

So every new GM is supposed to go through all the past trades a team made for the past 5 seasons because he can't trust the pick tracker? What's the point of it then?

JNH · 04-23-2019, 02:26 AM

04-23-2019, 02:20 AMFlappyGiraffe Wrote: Since the pick tracker is useless and everyone has to keep their own records of who owns what, should HO be punished as much as STL and COL? Seeing as they were not keeping track of who owns what pick as well when they are the ones who organize and run the draft.

Or is it okay for them to count on the pick tracker but not for gms to....

You're right around the right point where @nour and I ended up, but this is again a pretty weak argument/example. The standard that is applied only says GM's should keep track of their own picks.

So once again, where we need guidance here from HO is clarifying whether the pick tracker can/should be relied on at all, or just by certain groups (e.g relied on by HO, but it's the GM's duties to ensure that there isn't any discrepancies). Something along those lines.

If that comes in, there's no guessing as to whether team A is at fault or HO is at fault or the pick tracker is at fault.

BDonini · 04-23-2019, 02:30 AM

04-23-2019, 02:23 AMSami Wrote:
04-23-2019, 02:20 AMFlappyGiraffe Wrote: Since the pick tracker is useless and everyone has to keep their own records of who owns what, should HO be punished as much as STL and COL? Seeing as they were not keeping track of who owns what pick as well when they are the ones who organize and run the draft.

Or is it okay for them to count on the pick tracker but not for gms to....

This. Just get rid of the pick tracker then if no one can rely on it.

So every new GM is supposed to go through all the past trades a team made for the past 5 seasons because he can't trust the pick tracker? What's the point of it then?

Not sure where this strawman that nobody can rely on the pick tracker came from but the point is not that nobody can rely on the pick tracker, it’s that GM’s shouldn’t rely solely on the pick tracker for *their own* picks. The pick tracker is still useful for HO, GM’s looking to see what picks other teams have or really just any member of the community who wants to see which team own which picks. Saying that GMs should be able to keep track of their own picks != making the pick tracker useless.

JNH · 04-23-2019, 02:30 AM

04-23-2019, 02:23 AMSami Wrote:
04-23-2019, 02:20 AMFlappyGiraffe Wrote: Since the pick tracker is useless and everyone has to keep their own records of who owns what, should HO be punished as much as STL and COL? Seeing as they were not keeping track of who owns what pick as well when they are the ones who organize and run the draft.

Or is it okay for them to count on the pick tracker but not for gms to....

This. Just get rid of the pick tracker then if no one can rely on it.

So every new GM is supposed to go through all the past trades a team made for the past 5 seasons because he can't trust the pick tracker? What's the point of it then?

Like I said before, it's a valuable public tool not just for GM's to use. I wouldn't say getting rid of it solves the problem at hand here.

And no that shouldn't be what would have to happen, because ideally the old GM would be keeping track of their picks and therefore there would be an existing list.

JNH · 04-23-2019, 02:32 AM

04-23-2019, 02:30 AMBDonini Wrote:
04-23-2019, 02:23 AMSami Wrote: This. Just get rid of the pick tracker then if no one can rely on it.

So every new GM is supposed to go through all the past trades a team made for the past 5 seasons because he can't trust the pick tracker? What's the point of it then?

Not sure where this strawman that nobody can rely on the pick tracker came from but the point is not that nobody can rely on the pick tracker, it’s that GM’s shouldn’t rely solely on the pick tracker for *their own* picks. The pick tracker is still useful for HO, GM’s looking to see what picks other teams have or really just any member of the community who wants to see which team own which picks. Saying that GMs should be able to keep track of their own picks != making the pick tracker useless.

There's a lot of hyperbole, hypothetical situations and just random points being brought up that are detracting from the issue at hand. It's not as dramatic as everyone's making it seem.

crutch · 04-23-2019, 02:46 AM

honestly let's just fold the SMJHL and have everyone drafted to SHL teams off the bat

monkaS

SecondSucks22 · 04-23-2019, 02:51 AM

04-23-2019, 01:13 AMztevans Wrote:
04-23-2019, 01:11 AMToeDragon84 Wrote: Why isn't there a punishment for the player STL took with that pick?

Because getting drafted by STL is punishment enough amirite HEYOOOOOOOO *runs away*

Better than Halisucks! oh! Whalers

*Tomen* · 04-23-2019, 03:34 AM

So after reading through this here are my 2 cents.
It’s a GM’s responsibility to ensure everything regarding their team is correct and up to date( for example picks/in sim stats) even though we have paid positions for this because human error can occur. ( I know this situation wasn’t because of human error ). As JNH said the pick tracker is still a valueable tool for the public.
I didn’t look back at other precedent but this situation is obviously different than the Halifax/Detroit situation because Halifax has no responsibility to track other teams picks. Colorado on the other hand has to track their own stuff.
In my eyes it’s enough punishment for Colorado that the pick they originally owned was used by STL.
As for STL I don’t get why the punishment explicitly says non reddit 3rd. It should just be the next 3rd round pick they own. Why make it extra non reddit. You fucked up so you lose the same pick.
As for people fucking up their job. There have been 3 precedent that I remember.
#1 the lil bank account controversy where Crutch was initially punished but that was later fixed
#2 CaptainCrazy mit updating Seattle’s Regression in like S31 or S32 as their Updater.
#3 when the Marius rule was established the Updaters that fucked up his updates were also punished.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

*Tomen* · 04-23-2019, 03:37 AM

Btw what I also don’t get is a bit of inconsistency regarding this back in S44 or I think Halifax traded a pick they didn’t own to MTL prior to the draft. The mistake was caught and the trade was just nullified. Why wasn’t Halifax punished in that instance?

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

.bojo · 04-23-2019, 07:28 AM

Somebody make an excel sheet only smjhl GM's can edit with draft picks. They'd be in control of moving it. Google and Microsoft have history in case of auditing as well

I didn't read past the first page but this would be my solution going forward

Sami · 04-23-2019, 07:41 AM

04-23-2019, 07:28 AM.bojo Wrote: Somebody make an excel sheet only smjhl GM's can edit with draft picks. They'd be in control of moving it. Google and Microsoft have history in case of auditing as well

I didn't read past the first page but this would be my solution going forward

This. No need to pay someone 3M if that one doesn't have any responsibility. If the GMs have to track the picks anyway they can just edit the excel sheet themselves.

***JKortesi81*** · 04-23-2019, 08:14 AM

Don’t forget!

SMJHL HO + Intern Applications are still live!

Navigation

Extra Menu

About us