03-26-2020, 05:36 PMSegi Wrote: I know we had this discussion in the last game already.
I still disagree. Lynching on the first night is verly likely to hit a villager and will help the wolfs more than the village.
Yeah, seems like this is a recurring discussion in every game :D
But I mean, if we don't do anything this night then what happens? The wolves eat a villager, we wake up a man down and are just as smart as before and the Seer, if he is even in the game, is very likely to have checked a villager so the extra bit of info we gained is trivial, plus the Seer wouldn't want to reveal himself anyway. With such a passive approach the wolves will just whittle us down. Not even to mention that it opens the door to late snipes shortly before the deadline as well. If we go for the lynching then yes, chances are that we pick a villager as well, but at least we will gain a lot of information in the process. People will have to side with or against a person, one or multiple people will be forced to make their case and defend themselves, that kind of stuff. This might not be particularly useful right away but can be crucial later, when people start backreading and making these big posts where they profile everyone, analyze their behaviour throught the game and put all the information in once place.
It can possibly give information, but only really if a wolf stands trial. Otherwise, everyone is just clueless and basically guessing. It just likely ends up with the village being two players down instead of one.
Last time this argument lead to me being hugely suspicious of you, which turned out to be very wrong.
Mathias Seger #15 | Player page | Update page Sigs by Donini, RainDelay, Fever and OrbitingDeath
03-26-2020, 05:29 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Honestly, I don't think that passing on the lynching on day one is the smart choice. Information is what this game is all about, and the way we gain info is by pushing people to make decisions, to talk and provide reasons for their choices, if only to defend themselves.
I know we had this discussion in the last game already.
I still disagree. Lynching on the first night is verly likely to hit a villager and will help the wolfs more than the village.
If one gets so desperate to make a choice on day 2 or later, then it's generally more acceptable to begin to make pushes due to lack of activity or things said in the lack of hard evidence IMO
but I'd rather bank on luck that we get something done day 2 on evidence then lynch a role player Day 1
03-26-2020, 05:52 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote:
03-26-2020, 05:36 PMSegi Wrote: I know we had this discussion in the last game already.
I still disagree. Lynching on the first night is verly likely to hit a villager and will help the wolfs more than the village.
Yeah, seems like this is a recurring discussion in every game :D
But I mean, if we don't do anything this night then what happens? The wolves eat a villager, we wake up a man down and are just as smart as before and the Seer, if he is even in the game, is very likely to have checked a villager so the extra bit of info we gained is trivial, plus the Seer wouldn't want to reveal himself anyway. With such a passive approach the wolves will just whittle us down. Not even to mention that it opens the door to late snipes shortly before the deadline as well. If we go for the lynching then yes, chances are that we pick a villager as well, but at least we will gain a lot of information in the process. People will have to side with or against a person, one or multiple people will be forced to make their case and defend themselves, that kind of stuff. This might not be particularly useful right away but can be crucial later, when people start backreading and making these big posts where they profile everyone, analyze their behaviour throught the game and put all the information in once place.
If we do lynch we wake up two men down and with less time to gather the facts.
If the game goes down to the wire (2v1 villagers-wws), then, in a village victory, there's 3-to-1 dead villagers to werewolves. If we lynch every day, such a game lasts 8 days, as opposed to the exact opposite of a game where we let the WWs kill 3 villagers for every wolf we lynch lasting 13 days.
I recognize the information that's gathered from lynchs as very important, and recognize that the ideal game is more so going to be in-between those two extremes, but every villager we kill is less time for us to win, and incredibly unfortunate if that villager had a role.
I feel that your response neglects that there are three investigatory roles, but also note that, for the same reasons you state, I'm not against lynching on any other day during the game.
"late snipes" are simply shows of the hand, save for the special case of the executioner, which I had not thought of.
In the end, I expect no lynches to be random, but to lynch people for slightly suspicious comments or inactivity this early seems to jump the gun far too early
MWHazard Wrote:i'll playwith anyone
playing with my teammates is part of the intangibles I bring to the table
i play with them a lot.
they didn't like it at first
but after a while, it just felt normal
Justice,Sep 18 2016, 02:09 PM Wrote:4-0 and 0-4 aren't that different tbh
McJesus - Today at 10:38 PM Wrote:FIRE EGGY
HIRE ARTY
03-26-2020, 06:26 PMTnlAstatine Wrote: damn arty coming out guns ablazing, i wish i was that articulate and had that much strategy and planning in these types of games.
Oh man you should see me in the first couple SHL ww games.
I go all out with them paragraphs.
Also, can you tell that RED and I were a GM team once?
MWHazard Wrote:i'll playwith anyone
playing with my teammates is part of the intangibles I bring to the table
i play with them a lot.
they didn't like it at first
but after a while, it just felt normal
Justice,Sep 18 2016, 02:09 PM Wrote:4-0 and 0-4 aren't that different tbh
McJesus - Today at 10:38 PM Wrote:FIRE EGGY
HIRE ARTY
03-26-2020, 05:52 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Yeah, seems like this is a recurring discussion in every game :D
But I mean, if we don't do anything this night then what happens? The wolves eat a villager, we wake up a man down and are just as smart as before and the Seer, if he is even in the game, is very likely to have checked a villager so the extra bit of info we gained is trivial, plus the Seer wouldn't want to reveal himself anyway. With such a passive approach the wolves will just whittle us down. Not even to mention that it opens the door to late snipes shortly before the deadline as well. If we go for the lynching then yes, chances are that we pick a villager as well, but at least we will gain a lot of information in the process. People will have to side with or against a person, one or multiple people will be forced to make their case and defend themselves, that kind of stuff. This might not be particularly useful right away but can be crucial later, when people start backreading and making these big posts where they profile everyone, analyze their behaviour throught the game and put all the information in once place.
are you willing to take on the first lynching for the good of the masses?
No.
03-26-2020, 06:23 PMartermis Wrote:
03-26-2020, 05:36 PMSegi Wrote: I know we had this discussion in the last game already.
I still disagree. Lynching on the first night is verly likely to hit a villager and will help the wolfs more than the village.
If one gets so desperate to make a choice on day 2 or later, then it's generally more acceptable to begin to make pushes due to lack of activity or things said in the lack of hard evidence IMO
but I'd rather bank on luck that we get something done day 2 on evidence then lynch a role player Day 1
03-26-2020, 05:52 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Yeah, seems like this is a recurring discussion in every game :D
But I mean, if we don't do anything this night then what happens? The wolves eat a villager, we wake up a man down and are just as smart as before and the Seer, if he is even in the game, is very likely to have checked a villager so the extra bit of info we gained is trivial, plus the Seer wouldn't want to reveal himself anyway. With such a passive approach the wolves will just whittle us down. Not even to mention that it opens the door to late snipes shortly before the deadline as well. If we go for the lynching then yes, chances are that we pick a villager as well, but at least we will gain a lot of information in the process. People will have to side with or against a person, one or multiple people will be forced to make their case and defend themselves, that kind of stuff. This might not be particularly useful right away but can be crucial later, when people start backreading and making these big posts where they profile everyone, analyze their behaviour throught the game and put all the information in once place.
If we do lynch we wake up two men down and with less time to gather the facts.
If the game goes down to the wire (2v1 villagers-wws), then, in a village victory, there's 3-to-1 dead villagers to werewolves. If we lynch every day, such a game lasts 8 days, as opposed to the exact opposite of a game where we let the WWs kill 3 villagers for every wolf we lynch lasting 13 days.
I recognize the information that's gathered from lynchs as very important, and recognize that the ideal game is more so going to be in-between those two extremes, but every villager we kill is less time for us to win, and incredibly unfortunate if that villager had a role.
I feel that your response neglects that there are three investigatory roles, but also note that, for the same reasons you state, I'm not against lynching on any other day during the game.
"late snipes" are simply shows of the hand, save for the special case of the executioner, which I had not thought of.
In the end, I expect no lynches to be random, but to lynch people for slightly suspicious comments or inactivity this early seems to jump the gun far too early
You seem to assume that we are guaranteed to get the wrong person with the lynching, which I don't agree with at all. And even if we picked the wrong person we a) get some info in the process and b) he can still survive if he makes a good case for himself, for example by hinting at a role, and we decide to retract our votes. The chances of actually hitting a crucial role like the Seer with this are much, much slimmer than hitting a Wolf, and the Seer could still reveal himself in that case and survive. My main point is, if we don't do anything tonight, then how are we in any better situation to make a decision tomorrow? Or is it like the new "meta" of the game to play it suuuuuper slow, avoid lynchings altogether and just hope that all the important roles gather information faster than the wolves kill ppl over night?
And yeah I know that there are more investigatory roles but the Seer is the only really reliable one imho, as the lookout and escort only work in very limited capacity. Plus we don't know how many of these three roles are even in the game, while we are guaranteed to have 4-5 wolves. And regarding the snipes, I've seen quite a lot of those in the past tbh, not just from the Executioner but also from Jesters or people with other roles who just prefer to play a "wildcard" style of game, be it wolf or villager.
Just to make it clear, I'm not absolutely dead set on lynching anything right away, I just generally think it's the smarter approach. We already getting some info just by talking about it, like arty making some good logical points even if I might not agree with all of them.
03-26-2020, 06:26 PMTnlAstatine Wrote: damn arty coming out guns ablazing, i wish i was that articulate and had that much strategy and planning in these types of games.
Oh man you should see me in the first couple SHL ww games.
I go all out with them paragraphs.
Also, can you tell that RED and I were a GM team once?
03-26-2020, 06:00 PMTnlAstatine Wrote: are you willing to take on the first lynching for the good of the masses?
No.
03-26-2020, 06:23 PMartermis Wrote:
If one gets so desperate to make a choice on day 2 or later, then it's generally more acceptable to begin to make pushes due to lack of activity or things said in the lack of hard evidence IMO
but I'd rather bank on luck that we get something done day 2 on evidence then lynch a role player Day 1
If we do lynch we wake up two men down and with less time to gather the facts.
If the game goes down to the wire (2v1 villagers-wws), then, in a village victory, there's 3-to-1 dead villagers to werewolves. If we lynch every day, such a game lasts 8 days, as opposed to the exact opposite of a game where we let the WWs kill 3 villagers for every wolf we lynch lasting 13 days.
I recognize the information that's gathered from lynchs as very important, and recognize that the ideal game is more so going to be in-between those two extremes, but every villager we kill is less time for us to win, and incredibly unfortunate if that villager had a role.
I feel that your response neglects that there are three investigatory roles, but also note that, for the same reasons you state, I'm not against lynching on any other day during the game.
"late snipes" are simply shows of the hand, save for the special case of the executioner, which I had not thought of.
In the end, I expect no lynches to be random, but to lynch people for slightly suspicious comments or inactivity this early seems to jump the gun far too early
You seem to assume that we are guaranteed to get the wrong person with the lynching, which I don't agree with at all. And even if we picked the wrong person we a) get some info in the process and b) he can still survive if he makes a good case for himself, for example by hinting at a role, and we decide to retract our votes. The chances of actually hitting a crucial role like the Seer with this are much, much slimmer than hitting a Wolf, and the Seer could still reveal himself in that case and survive. My main point is, if we don't do anything tonight, then how are we in any better situation to make a decision tomorrow? Or is it like the new "meta" of the game to play it suuuuuper slow, avoid lynchings altogether and just hope that all the important roles gather information faster than the wolves kill ppl over night?
And yeah I know that there are more investigatory roles but the Seer is the only really reliable one imho, as the lookout and escort only work in very limited capacity. Plus we don't know how many of these three roles are even in the game, while we are guaranteed to have 4-5 wolves. And regarding the snipes, I've seen quite a lot of those in the past tbh, not just from the Executioner but also from Jesters or people with other roles who just prefer to play a "wildcard" style of game, be it wolf or villager.
Just to make it clear, I'm not absolutely dead set on lynching anything right away, I just generally think it's the smarter approach. We already getting some info just by talking about it, like arty making some good logical points even if I might not agree with all of them.
So what your saying is....going for a lynching, we statistically have a better chance of a werewolf than not?
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