[Serious] TPE cap in junior (Let us build)
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Faelax
SMJHL HO S55, 60, 71 Challenge Cup Champion 07-08-2020, 01:38 PMgrok Wrote:Yeah, having less 4 year junior players is a solution to the cap issue and the fact that junior teams are full across the board, but it does with its own set of challenges. I realistically don't think anything will change barring a huge decision from both HOs about send down rules and SHL roster rules. But that is a discussion for another time07-08-2020, 12:47 PMFaelax Wrote: Ideally we want players to stay in Juniors for a shorter amount of time, if that were true the cap would be less relevant.
Clean Andrei Kostitsyn
Registered Senior Member
main points i see so far :
- cap make it less hard for newbies, more retention - you not want player stay in junior for fun - shl is fucked and we want more player go up instead of more junior elite - things will not change because things never change - some agree with andrei that is boring to not upgrade - 4 season junior player is ok for lock room culture maybe i suggest we have new cap for every year so it add a bit more fun every season ? but no allow for go full greatski
Mutedfaith
Head Office singing solo you can't hear him
Id rather keep the current cap than add 25 TPE every season. Doesn't add a whole lot of anything if you ask me.
Also, only short term thinking people let themselves lose motivation over a juniors cap. Long term, the cap is irrelevant on a player level, but has its uses on a league level.
Wally
SHL GM El Dumbo - Big Spoon - Both Handed
So... the effort is to get newbs to move up to the SHL in three seasons... for why? To suck on the desired fourth line?
Probably should cap SHL players now too, to be sure rookies stand a chance.
grok
Registered Posting Freak 07-08-2020, 02:19 PMMutedfaith Wrote: Id rather keep the current cap than add 25 TPE every season. Doesn't add a whole lot of anything if you ask me. I basically agree with this. 25 TPE is like 3 stat points at 350+. It's a minor threat--3 stat points is a nearly imperceptible change. If that's enough to solve the problem, then the problem wasn't big enough to warrant policy action in the first place. Quote:Also, only short term thinking people let themselves lose motivation over a juniors cap. Long term, the cap is irrelevant on a player level, but has its uses on a league level. Agree with the exposition but strongly disagree with the conclusion. The only people who will lose motivation over the juniors cap are people with limited attachment to the site. A first-gen with approximately 2 months on the site pressing up against the cap is exactly a person with limited attachment to the site, and they are the most vulnerable and most critical players for retention efforts. Improving first-gen experience is the single most important thing HO can do, and properly managing the TPE cap is one of their tools to increase engagement for players spending 3+ seasons in the SMJHL.
Wally
SHL GM El Dumbo - Big Spoon - Both Handed
SlashACM
Registered Certified Swiss Cheese
Wally
SHL GM El Dumbo - Big Spoon - Both Handed
sve7en
SMJHL GM Littleton Award Winner 07-08-2020, 02:39 PMgrok Wrote: Agree with the exposition but strongly disagree with the conclusion. The only people who will lose motivation over the juniors cap are people with limited attachment to the site. A first-gen with approximately 2 months on the site pressing up against the cap is exactly a person with limited attachment to the site, and they are the most vulnerable and most critical players for retention efforts. Improving first-gen experience is the single most important thing HO can do, and properly managing the TPE cap is one of their tools to increase engagement for players spending 3+ seasons in the SMJHL. The cap helps those people though. They remain competitive compared to the people that have double their tpe?
Good_Ole_Kimmy
All-Star Committee NOT TUMMY 07-08-2020, 01:19 PMgrok Wrote:a great decision m'lord07-08-2020, 01:16 PMGood_Ole_Kimmy Wrote: way back in our day grok we got to 350 and that was itwe sure did, and it sucked, so the first day of my (brief) tenure as SMJHL commissioner i gave the then-HO a mandate: "you have a month to figure out a TPE cap solution or i'm unilaterally raising it to 425 for all players." (Sig Credit: toedragon84)
grok
Registered Posting Freak 07-08-2020, 03:29 PMsve7en Wrote:07-08-2020, 02:39 PMgrok Wrote: Agree with the exposition but strongly disagree with the conclusion. The only people who will lose motivation over the juniors cap are people with limited attachment to the site. A first-gen with approximately 2 months on the site pressing up against the cap is exactly a person with limited attachment to the site, and they are the most vulnerable and most critical players for retention efforts. Improving first-gen experience is the single most important thing HO can do, and properly managing the TPE cap is one of their tools to increase engagement for players spending 3+ seasons in the SMJHL. right. the existence of the cap helps rookies be competitive in their first season. the progression of that cap gives long-term SMJHL players meaningful progression in their later seasons. for a first-gen who doesn't know what the SHL experience is like, experiencing progression in every single season is so critical. a good locker room and quality GMs only goes so far when top-earning first-gens can cap out before the first game of their sophomore season. and this all comes from someone who created a goalie, capped out in the first week of season 2, then almost completely neglected their player after season 4 because they didn't experience any player growth. i say all this because i experienced all this and almost left the site because of it. the SMJHL cap needs to exist and i don't think it needs to be increased dramatically, but it is 100% factual that restricting agency will always always always be a negative experience. the cap will always be an agency restriction no matter how we implement it, even if it benefits the whole. it's HO's responsibility to manage that negative experience by providing windows for growth, because player growth is directly linked to user engagement at every level of the site. that's what i'm litigating here--not the existence of the cap, but how we can use windows for growth to most effectively improve the experience for junior and senior year SMJHL players, especially first-gen players
Citizen of Adraa
SHL GM Lives on halušky
There is also another side to the argument of raising the cap specifically for 4th season in Js - people would then deliberately stay down just so they could be the biggest, baddest player around and obviously they would have massive value to J GMs. I believe that actively encouraging players to stay down as long as possible is contraproductive for both leagues, so honestly it's not the most fortunate of solutions.
Manhattan Rage | General Manager
thanks Sulovilen for the sig! D | Great Falls Grizzlies | Player Page | Update Page
golden_apricot
IIHF Federation Head Trade Me
When we made the switch I chose to keep the caps where they were as it gave enough separation between 350 and rookies and 425 and 350 with the limited builds I had to work with. The caps exist due to the update scale. If we had them much higher then rookies would not be competitive at all since they all severely lack in physicals and defense at the start due to the low starting tpe. cleans main point of "let us be great in juniors" is a fair comment however for the good of the league and player retention the caps should stay in place. Teddy and I have talked about the need of a comprehensive update scale change making it a bit easier at the low end ad harder at the top which would help both rookies score in both the smjhl and shl but this type of scale is not easy due to what most people have figured out by now, that being low physicals and defense is really really bad. I think with decent builds that acknowledge this, someone at 600-700 pte can be at least somewhat competitive in the SHL, teams just need to call up their guys instead of playing an IA plaeyr who is 800ish tpe.
i do think you could bump the smjhl cap up a bit for 3rd years but i think it should be kept the same for the 4th and plaeyrs should be much more vocal about being called up and GMs should be incentivized to call these players up. I think we should remove all 400 TPE or lower IA players (or maybe higehr tahn that) to help force teams to call up there guys and maybe more is requried even at that point. Its a complicated issue and one that I know SMJHL HO and Owners are aware of and they are trying to get to a good fix that helps player retention both at the first player drop point (post draft) and the second drop point (hitting the TPE cap)
SlashACM
Registered Certified Swiss Cheese 07-08-2020, 04:26 PMgrok Wrote:07-08-2020, 03:29 PMsve7en Wrote: The cap helps those people though. They remain competitive compared to the people that have double their tpe? You also experienced the shl dream in your first season :( |
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