I think there's something to be said about the "comparing to others". I don't know if milestones truly achieves that as it is right now where I've anecdotally seen more comparisons of how much TPE each person got rather with maybe side mentions of what categories they achieved, but not one that makes me think "I want to compare our season's performance". Most importantly of all, it's just an echo effect on the season you and your team had. As mentioned if you're on a strong one or a weak one, that strongly dictates how much milestones you've achieved. Especially if you've had a bit of bad luck, getting 1 or none just feels bad because there's largely nothing that the user could have done to change that, short of forcing his coach to make him get into a fight once a season or something.
I've thought maybe team based milestones being the top 5 scorer on your team or top 5 in hits or something that could be more intrateam recognition. Same problem above applies in that you can't really help it if you're played 10 minutes on the 3rd pair in your rookie season
What about career based milestones? Lots of logistical questions to answer with this in terms of combining both old and new players. I'm not a fan because this one more inherently pokes at the issues with milestones and that's how we track/judge them. Goals and assists make sense, but then for defensive players who lack stats on FHM's side to determine their effectiveness beyond number counting stats come back to one of the fundamental issues with milestones as they are right now.
01-20-2021, 02:32 PMnour Wrote: Head Office is taking a look at removing the Milestones system, and tacking on an additional 3 tpe to all tiers of team training camp at season start, to prevent this system in FHM where the rich seem to get richer.
This is not one of the options I've heard being thrown around, and it's an interesting one for sure. One of the appeals of Milestones is seeing how your player stacks up against the rest of the league. I don't think they should be removed altogether, but reworked in a way that doesn't give an unfair advantage to those who are on better teams like you mentioned.
One of my favorite ideas, which I've seen tossed around and generally met with approval, is to incorporate the TPE earned from Milestones into Championship Week. Allow the TPE earned from Milestones to be applied towards tasks for that specific PT, allowing those who earned milestones to get a break. It's a neat way to still have the Milestones, but to not allow those who earned more to get an advantage over those who didn't. I'd love to know if this idea has been discussed in HO and what the opinions are about it.
I really like this idea! It would reward people who do well in sim but people who aren't getting the same stats still have the chance to earn that TPE so it's not exclusive
On the update scale, I agree that there certainly is an issue with rebuilding teams right now, but I feel that that particular version would be a bit too generous. I'd like to show rather than tell what I mean; I used the dev player builder to put everything to 15 (other than shot blocking/shooting range and aggression/faceoffs ofc).
The following build would not even use 800 TPE, and it would leave little difference between a 2K player and someone who just made the jump. I fear there could be an issue like you had in STHS where the max earners already had everything basically capped out too (since at 60 nobody will do 18-20). Requiring 1000 more TPE to get 2 points higher on each attribute, making such little progress would probably be more frustrating than having to grind when you're new. Here's a 2K build:
And I think lastly the other issue would be the lack of build diversity this might lead to, since it makes it difficult to specialize in one attribute and rewards more of an even distribution. A middle ground for me would be to make 10-13 all 5 TPE; small difference but it could pay off a bit. Just my two cents, happy to hear alternate viewpoints!
01-20-2021, 02:47 PMAgentSmith630 Wrote: This is not one of the options I've heard being thrown around, and it's an interesting one for sure. One of the appeals of Milestones is seeing how your player stacks up against the rest of the league. I don't think they should be removed altogether, but reworked in a way that doesn't give an unfair advantage to those who are on better teams like you mentioned.
One of my favorite ideas, which I've seen tossed around and generally met with approval, is to incorporate the TPE earned from Milestones into Championship Week. Allow the TPE earned from Milestones to be applied towards tasks for that specific PT, allowing those who earned milestones to get a break. It's a neat way to still have the Milestones, but to not allow those who earned more to get an advantage over those who didn't. I'd love to know if this idea has been discussed in HO and what the opinions are about it.
My recent spitballing was to move seasonal milestones to career milestones. Ie, allow players to claim a small sum on TPE for important milestones in certain stats. for example, 50 goals, or 200 hits. This is a huge aspect of the NHL already, as fans love to track N00th goals, points, assists, ect. Humans love stats, the NFL knows this the best. They've infused their sport with nigh-meaningless stats to keep people engaged not just in the sport, but in the data it creates. We should be similar. Achievements have always been a decent way to engage certain players in all sorts of games. We even have one for 2k TPE. So the next logical evolution in the SHL is a system that puts our stats and data to work for us.
This is exactly where my head went to when reading cash instead of TPE, they could be bonuses for individual milestones. 1000 games played, 100 goals, etc etc. 100 playoff games etc. Performance bonuses, as well as eventual hall of fame stats, how many "awards"/"milestones" they achieved.
As far as comparing to the rest of the league, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to post lists of like Top 25 in Goals/Assists/Points/ etc. Of course where do you draw that line with hundreds of players in the league? top 50? top 100? Something that could be announced with the All Stars or Hall of Fame.. season standings.
Member of Team Prospects North America - S51 WJC, Team Captain
01-20-2021, 02:56 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: My recent spitballing was to move seasonal milestones to career milestones. Ie, allow players to claim a small sum on TPE for important milestones in certain stats. for example, 50 goals, or 200 hits. This is a huge aspect of the NHL already, as fans love to track N00th goals, points, assists, ect. Humans love stats, the NFL knows this the best. They've infused their sport with nigh-meaningless stats to keep people engaged not just in the sport, but in the data it creates. We should be similar. Achievements have always been a decent way to engage certain players in all sorts of games. We even have one for 2k TPE. So the next logical evolution in the SHL is a system that puts our stats and data to work for us.
This is exactly where my head went to when reading cash instead of TPE, they could be bonuses for individual milestones. 1000 games played, 100 goals, etc etc. 100 playoff games etc. Performance bonuses, as well as eventual hall of fame stats, how many "awards"/"milestones" they achieved.
As far as comparing to the rest of the league, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to post lists of like Top 25 in Goals/Assists/Points/ etc. Of course where do you draw that line with hundreds of players in the league? top 50? top 100? Something that could be announced with the All Stars or Hall of Fame.. season standings.
I think rewarding based on Top X is inherently the bad part of the current milestones. With this new idea, i would want to reward players based on their own merit. The difference between being a HoF player and an average player in terms of Milestone rewards could be as little as 10 TPE, as well as "better" players receiving their milestones earlier.
01-20-2021, 04:16 PMStamkosFan Wrote: On the update scale, I agree that there certainly is an issue with rebuilding teams right now, but I feel that that particular version would be a bit too generous. I'd like to show rather than tell what I mean; I used the dev player builder to put everything to 15 (other than shot blocking/shooting range and aggression/faceoffs ofc).
(EDITED OUT FOR SPACE SAKE)
The following build would not even use 800 TPE, and it would leave little difference between a 2K player and someone who just made the jump. I fear there could be an issue like you had in STHS where the max earners already had everything basically capped out too (since at 60 nobody will do 18-20). Requiring 1000 more TPE to get 2 points higher on each attribute, making such little progress would probably be more frustrating than having to grind when you're new. Here's a 2K build:
(EDITED OUT FOR SPACE SAKE)
And I think lastly the other issue would be the lack of build diversity this might lead to, since it makes it difficult to specialize in one attribute and rewards more of an even distribution. A middle ground for me would be to make 10-13 all 5 TPE; small difference but it could pay off a bit. Just my two cents, happy to hear alternate viewpoints!
This update scale is really just there to get feedback and have an idea on the table. We are actually planning to run tests using a variety of builds to see how this affects the league. We have also discussed scales that break out 16-20 into individual cost categories so the bump to 60 isn't so alarming and the only level that would cost 60 is from 19 to 20. The biggest issue with our current scale is getting up to a competitive level takes 1100+ tpe. If we were to compare the SHL to the NHL a 1100 tpe player is pretty on par with a bottom line NHL player currently and our 2000 tpe players are top line players. The problem is that we want to be a league that is fun for people who can't max earn, we want people to see more out of their player even if they max out at 1200 tpe and we want teams to be closer in compete level. To achieve those goals the road to ratings levels of 15 needs to be very easy, and to make it so the elite don't blow away the competition, the road to being elite needs to be quite difficult. I see this sort of system as a balance between what we had with SHTS and what we currently have with FHM.
01-20-2021, 05:45 PM(This post was last modified: 01-20-2021, 06:16 PM by Samsung virtual assistant.)
Ngl i would REALLY hate a 60 tpe tier in the updates, would probably kill my interest in tpe earning once i get attributes to 17, im already pretty tired of how long it takes to improve your player as it is.
Then again, people seem to have decided that you cant be useful at like 800 tpe with todays scale, which isn't true. Idk if we should do yet another expansion to make sure GMs call people up earlier, but that would medan either lowering the cap or raising the min salary again, because people dont care about salary and would rather make superteams(im guilty of this too)
Guess im just an idiot as per usual.
EDIT:
IDK you y'all looked into the possibility of re-creates skipping a couple seasons and going straight to the SHL? With the "smjhl sucks" threads that has been up the last couple of months. I had a suggestion somewhere that you could be able to skip like 3 or 4 seasons, at the cost of having earlier regression and also a TPE hit, so that it still awards you more TPE if you're active during your junior years.
01-20-2021, 02:47 PMAgentSmith630 Wrote: This is not one of the options I've heard being thrown around, and it's an interesting one for sure. One of the appeals of Milestones is seeing how your player stacks up against the rest of the league. I don't think they should be removed altogether, but reworked in a way that doesn't give an unfair advantage to those who are on better teams like you mentioned.
One of my favorite ideas, which I've seen tossed around and generally met with approval, is to incorporate the TPE earned from Milestones into Championship Week. Allow the TPE earned from Milestones to be applied towards tasks for that specific PT, allowing those who earned milestones to get a break. It's a neat way to still have the Milestones, but to not allow those who earned more to get an advantage over those who didn't. I'd love to know if this idea has been discussed in HO and what the opinions are about it.
My recent spitballing was to move seasonal milestones to career milestones. Ie, allow players to claim a small sum on TPE for important milestones in certain stats. for example, 50 goals, or 200 hits. This is a huge aspect of the NHL already, as fans love to track N00th goals, points, assists, ect. Humans love stats, the NFL knows this the best. They've infused their sport with nigh-meaningless stats to keep people engaged not just in the sport, but in the data it creates. We should be similar. Achievements have always been a decent way to engage certain players in all sorts of games. We even have one for 2k TPE. So the next logical evolution in the SHL is a system that puts our stats and data to work for us.
I feel like these carries on with the same issue of the "rich get richer" style of play and has too many holes to be realized. Just off the top of my head, D and F would need different milestones to make it fair, unless forwards get an inate ability to earn more TPE, which in turn makes swapping between forward and defence all that much more complicated.
The biggest thing just reading it over again, is that this doesn't do anything to cut down the rich get richer mentality of current milestones. Who are the players that are going to be hitting 200+ goals/assists or hits? It's the top players in this league that are already established at high TPE rates. This change would offer something up to young players that they can earn consistently, but it once again gives the top earners an advantage in how much TPE they can earn compared to the little guy rebuilding. Even if it's only 10 TPE over the course of a career it doesn't feel equitable for in-sim performance to be treated the same way but over a longer period of time. Maybe if we instead take the career milestones and then turn that back into cash, as is being suggested for current milestones, then it could make sense and wouldn't support the rich get richer mentality, but at that point there'd be little use in switching since TPE would be an irrelevant factor.
01-20-2021, 05:28 PMEricNCSU Wrote: This is exactly where my head went to when reading cash instead of TPE, they could be bonuses for individual milestones. 1000 games played, 100 goals, etc etc. 100 playoff games etc. Performance bonuses, as well as eventual hall of fame stats, how many "awards"/"milestones" they achieved.
As far as comparing to the rest of the league, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard to post lists of like Top 25 in Goals/Assists/Points/ etc. Of course where do you draw that line with hundreds of players in the league? top 50? top 100? Something that could be announced with the All Stars or Hall of Fame.. season standings.
I think rewarding based on Top X is inherently the bad part of the current milestones. With this new idea, i would want to reward players based on their own merit. The difference between being a HoF player and an average player in terms of Milestone rewards could be as little as 10 TPE, as well as "better" players receiving their milestones earlier.
I wasn't intending to suggest the rewards be based on top 10, top 100 etc. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but rather just a posted list so people could compare themselves to the rest of the league (I assume the index page you can do that yourself?). I also meant the TPE/Cash portion for individual things like 100 goals, 2000 games played etc etc. Same as your suggestion.
I like your suggestion and was not trying to muddle it, again apologies if that wasn't clear.
Member of Team Prospects North America - S51 WJC, Team Captain
01-20-2021, 02:56 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: My recent spitballing was to move seasonal milestones to career milestones. Ie, allow players to claim a small sum on TPE for important milestones in certain stats. for example, 50 goals, or 200 hits. This is a huge aspect of the NHL already, as fans love to track N00th goals, points, assists, ect. Humans love stats, the NFL knows this the best. They've infused their sport with nigh-meaningless stats to keep people engaged not just in the sport, but in the data it creates. We should be similar. Achievements have always been a decent way to engage certain players in all sorts of games. We even have one for 2k TPE. So the next logical evolution in the SHL is a system that puts our stats and data to work for us.
I feel like these carries on with the same issue of the "rich get richer" style of play and has too many holes to be realized. Just off the top of my head, D and F would need different milestones to make it fair, unless forwards get an inate ability to earn more TPE, which in turn makes swapping between forward and defence all that much more complicated.
The biggest thing just reading it over again, is that this doesn't do anything to cut down the rich get richer mentality of current milestones. Who are the players that are going to be hitting 200+ goals/assists or hits? It's the top players in this league that are already established at high TPE rates. This change would offer something up to young players that they can earn consistently, but it once again gives the top earners an advantage in how much TPE they can earn compared to the little guy rebuilding. Even if it's only 10 TPE over the course of a career it doesn't feel equitable for in-sim performance to be treated the same way but over a longer period of time. Maybe if we instead take the career milestones and then turn that back into cash, as is being suggested for current milestones, then it could make sense and wouldn't support the rich get richer mentality, but at that point there'd be little use in switching since TPE would be an irrelevant factor.
money is certainly an incentive that makes sense, given its the biggest hurdle for new players and the gateway to consistent earning.
But regarding the rich get richer mentality, I think that still holds true, but I think this way is much better season to season. The current system is binary. 0 you missed it, 1 you got the milestone. So if you're on the cusp of being good, you get nothing. The career milestones changes each season from binary to a percentage. So while elites still get the 1, being average still gets you 0.5, or being almost good enough gets you .75. Over the course of 5 seasons, the best are getting 5 total hits. But the mediocre can still get 2.5 or 3 or even 4, rather than none. Multiply that by whatever the reward is. That's my mentality: make it feel good to progress through your career no matter what, while still rewarding our top earners.
And yeah, maybe one won't hit 200 goals in your career as a mid-tier earner, but the current milestones are pretty ridiculous in comparison. This way, you can get a little reward for your 50th or 100th goal. Or other, less praised stats like hitting, shot blocking, fighting, etc. Let players work towards a goal they really like (SB in particular are easy to rack up on a bad team). It's not without its drawbacks, and could easily be throttled too, but I think the big hole here is that this idea requires a lot of work and 4 TPE on CW requires none.
01-20-2021, 05:31 PMPremierBromanov Wrote: I think rewarding based on Top X is inherently the bad part of the current milestones. With this new idea, i would want to reward players based on their own merit. The difference between being a HoF player and an average player in terms of Milestone rewards could be as little as 10 TPE, as well as "better" players receiving their milestones earlier.
I wasn't intending to suggest the rewards be based on top 10, top 100 etc. Sorry if that wasn't clear, but rather just a posted list so people could compare themselves to the rest of the league (I assume the index page you can do that yourself?). I also meant the TPE/Cash portion for individual things like 100 goals, 2000 games played etc etc. Same as your suggestion.
I like your suggestion and was not trying to muddle it, again apologies if that wasn't clear.
its all good. Some of the stat tracking stuff is hidden behind a lot of layers. Hopefully some day we can get a nice front page where things like that arent so hard to locate
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