12-02-2021, 03:45 PM(This post was last modified: 12-02-2021, 03:47 PM by Acsolap.)
Not really any need to get mad about potential HOF and records. The committee is capable of distinguishing careers based on outside circumstances and it's a new era so new goal posts for records.
Also let's not forget that players get roughly 30% more games a season now and the scale is much more favourable to people with lower tpe so really the impact is not as large as it's made out to be.
Credit to Ml002, King, Wasty, Carpy, Bruins10, Rum_Ham, Turd Ferguson, Ragnar and Enigmatic for the sigs.
are what I have been yelling at anybody who will listen for the past hour.
My question is... what would you like them to do different that would actually work and not fuck over somebody else. it is one thing if you have a valid idea, its another if its just a matter of "screw anyone but me".
well for one, it's not "anyone but me." my corpse player is S47 and my recreate is S63 so this actually doesn't hit me at all immediately, but this is hitting a lot of very good users who have put a lot of work into this league with a huge negative change with very little advance warning.
I think it would have been worth pushing back the implementation of this a season just in the interest of not giving a giant middle finger to a whole bunch of people who were not expecting to regress in a couple of weeks, some of whom were just about to hit 2K in that time and now will not. We've been putting this off for a long time already, I think the overall net positive of community goodwill would have been worth waiting one more season, so at least everyone who is going to regress a season earlier than they expected to gets more than a couple weeks notice.
12-02-2021, 03:49 PM(This post was last modified: 12-02-2021, 03:53 PM by roastpuff.)
12-02-2021, 03:34 PMspooked Wrote: someone needs to be the one getting fucked when any change is made too, so really like pain now or pain later. If something is going to be fixed, rip the band aid and do it imo. Unlucky, but it is what it is, and really everything is relative so its not like its even that bad to any specific person.
Thanks for your caring and thoughtful response.
It just seems that the 53/54 class gets fucked whenever it comes time to make these changes. We got fucked when it was made more expensive to get 19s and 20s, and we were told that "you'll have more longevity to make up for it, because we made it cheaper to get to 17/18 and fight off regression!"
But now, you just told us "Fuck you, we want you to die quicker. That longevity promise was a fake haha!"
12-02-2021, 03:41 PMspooked Wrote: My question is... what would you like them to do different that would actually work and not fuck over somebody else. it is one thing if you have a valid idea, its another if its just a matter of "screw anyone but me".
Some warning would have been nice, instead of getting it sprung on us as the very end of the season. Actually encouraging GMs to make changes and not hoard good players would also be nice - maybe a new salary cap tier? Maybe no HTDs? It just seems like a cop-out when you say that "Oh it's all relative." Players staying at their peak too long? It just means that the league has a more dedicated userbase than when it was in the STHS era.
12-02-2021, 03:48 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I think it would have been worth pushing back the implementation of this a season just in the interest of not giving a giant middle finger to a whole bunch of people who were not expecting to regress in a couple of weeks, some of whom were just about to hit 2K in that time and now will not. We've been putting this off for a long time already, I think the overall net positive of community goodwill would have been worth waiting one more season, so at least everyone who is going to regress a season earlier than they expected to gets more than a couple weeks notice.
Idk who is in the next draft class, but surely some people in it have done the same good things for the community as well. Pushing it back because "well these people did a lot" is just a terrible look. And also pushes a solution to the parity issues further away.
Weird change. Feel like people keep talking about increasing engagement but I can only see it doing the opposite. Money making continues to be a hassle for some on this site (graphics pay roughly half of what the ISFL pay and as a media grader there is a lot of underappreciated and underpaid written media) and those that put in the work to maintain a max earning account are de-incentivized to really care moving forward. I'm not talking about crazy ridiculous peaks. It's more about longevity.
Sure this is a broad sweeping change that will likely increase parity in some ways. Stats will likely be unchanged (interested to see how that is impacted, though). But I can only seeing the increased turnover turning a lot of people off recreating. Simply too much of a slog to get one year at the top and then fall off a cliff. But it is what it is. Hopefully it does work out in the long run. Feel sorry for the S53 and S54 people. I'll still have another year before I get hit in the face with regression now. So whatever.
12-02-2021, 03:34 PMspooked Wrote: someone needs to be the one getting fucked when any change is made too, so really like pain now or pain later. If something is going to be fixed, rip the band aid and do it imo. Unlucky, but it is what it is, and really everything is relative so its not like its even that bad to any specific person.
Thanks for your caring and thoughtful response.
It just seems that the 53/54 class gets fucked whenever it comes time to make these changes. We got fucked when it was made more expensive to get 19s and 20s, and we were told that "you'll have more longevity to make up for it, because we made it cheaper to get to 17/18 and fight off regression!"
But now, you just told us "Fuck you, we want you to die quicker. That longevity promise was a fake haha!"
We came into a new sim engine it was always going to be like this. Regression and the scale both needed to be adjusted. The system was broken and league results have been stale for 5 seasons minimum. Regression needed to change today. After regression you'll be about the TPE I am now
12-02-2021, 03:52 PMDELIRIVM Wrote: Weird change. Feel like people keep talking about increasing engagement but I can only see it doing the opposite. Money making continues to be a hassle for some on this site (graphics pay roughly half of what the ISFL pay and as a media grader there is a lot of underappreciated and underpaid written media) and those that put in the work to maintain a max earning account are de-incentivized to really care moving forward. I'm not talking about crazy ridiculous peaks. It's more about longevity.
Sure this is a broad sweeping change that will likely increase parity in some ways. Stats will likely be unchanged (interested to see how that is impacted, though). But I can only seeing the increased turnover turning a lot of people off recreating. Simply too much of a slog to get one year at the top and then fall off a cliff. But it is what it is. Hopefully it does work out in the long run. Feel sorry for the S53 and S54 people. I'll still have another year before I get hit in the face with regression now. So whatever.
If money making was such an issue we would see more people applying for site jobs. At present we get next to no applications, if people are having trouble with cash I suggest they apply for the multitude of positions available.
Credit to Ml002, King, Wasty, Carpy, Bruins10, Rum_Ham, Turd Ferguson, Ragnar and Enigmatic for the sigs.
12-02-2021, 03:48 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: I think it would have been worth pushing back the implementation of this a season just in the interest of not giving a giant middle finger to a whole bunch of people who were not expecting to regress in a couple of weeks, some of whom were just about to hit 2K in that time and now will not. We've been putting this off for a long time already, I think the overall net positive of community goodwill would have been worth waiting one more season, so at least everyone who is going to regress a season earlier than they expected to gets more than a couple weeks notice.
Idk who is in the next draft class, but surely some people in it have done the same good things for the community as well. Pushing it back because "well these people did a lot" is just a terrible look. And also pushes a solution to the parity issues further away.
That's not my logic here at all. I'm saying it's much more respectful of the amount of effort people have put into this to give them more than two weeks of warning before they get hit with a regression they didn't expect for another season. It's not "give these people a pass because they're great" it's giving everybody who's getting screwed a chance to be aware of that for more than a couple of weeks.
Somebody was going to get screwed by this in the end, but I don't think the best way to handle it was to wait until the last possible minute to tell them that.
12-02-2021, 03:58 PM(This post was last modified: 12-02-2021, 03:59 PM by DELIRIVM.)
12-02-2021, 03:54 PMAcsolap Wrote:
12-02-2021, 03:52 PMDELIRIVM Wrote: Weird change. Feel like people keep talking about increasing engagement but I can only see it doing the opposite. Money making continues to be a hassle for some on this site (graphics pay roughly half of what the ISFL pay and as a media grader there is a lot of underappreciated and underpaid written media) and those that put in the work to maintain a max earning account are de-incentivized to really care moving forward. I'm not talking about crazy ridiculous peaks. It's more about longevity.
Sure this is a broad sweeping change that will likely increase parity in some ways. Stats will likely be unchanged (interested to see how that is impacted, though). But I can only seeing the increased turnover turning a lot of people off recreating. Simply too much of a slog to get one year at the top and then fall off a cliff. But it is what it is. Hopefully it does work out in the long run. Feel sorry for the S53 and S54 people. I'll still have another year before I get hit in the face with regression now. So whatever.
If money making was such an issue we would see more people applying for site jobs. At present we get next to no applications, if people are having trouble with cash I suggest they apply for the multitude of positions available.
Depends what job tbh. If we're talking about jobs like SHL GM its just that people don't want to leave their friend group. I do think money making is a problem though. Some people simply would rather make money when they have time (graphics/media) than try to fit a site job into often busy schedules.
I'm fine with regression speeding up if we're properly correcting the cost of updating/equipment. Boost graphic and media base payouts by 20% and maybe things will be a little less hard to swallow. Because right now it looks like a lot of work for less payoff now.
12-02-2021, 03:19 PMroastpuff Wrote: Now that I got my initial knee-jerk reaction out of the way, I'd like to post a more measured missive.
This change sucks. As a max earner, it's a hard slog to get to the top and hit your peak TPE before regression. The reward for that was supposed to be that you got to enjoy it for a couple of seasons, and then start regressing. I understand that the desire was to make more room for players on the various teams, and encourage people to recreate instead of hanging around.
My first beef: Do that by steepening regression on the back end. Not the front end.
Why you're letting players 6-8 seasons in regression hang around boggles me - why bother? Ramp it up quickly to end up 30% after 10 seasons.
My second beef: You just fucked two of the better classes in the league.
The S53 class is probably the best class since S46. The S54 class is just as good if not even slightly better. You just fucked both classes in one move, super nice. Efficient. I understand that you wanted to get the pain over with, but these two classes have a HUGE max earning group that you've just stripped out of 20% of their hard-earned TPE. These were the guys who wanted to challenge for the all-time records, and they HAD A GOOD SHOT AT IT. Had. No longer do because you've just robbed them of the opportunity for that.
There has to be a better way around the implementation than "Oh well, sorry guys you just got fucked. Love, HO."
I think with this severe regression change we need to come up with new HOF/Era records.
Third beef: The one-and-done's get fucked over
Yes, you want people to recreate. Yes, people were hanging around too long. But those guys who wanted to make just one player, they've just been alienated. They feel unwanted. They've been told, "Don't stay around, don't want you, bye."
Thanks for listening to my rant. As it stands, I'm likely to not recreate after Liljestrom is done, which will be sooner than I thought. I feel hurt, I feel like I've been kicked while I'm down. It takes a lot of time, and effort, to get a player to peak. And I feel like my time and effort is unappreciated, and isn't worth anything to anyone but myself.
I understand your frustration, but this needs to be viewed on a larger scale. The entire league's TPE ceiling is being reduced by around 200 TPE by moving regression up one season. If you are being regressed 440 TPE, you are only being regressed 240 in comparison to the rest of the league. Yeah, you'll drop down from 2200 to 1760 TPE but there won't be anybody at 2000 anymore because S54s are being regressed from 2000 to 1800.
We had someone hit nearly 2400 TPE last season, that's very different from how much TPE historically was available to be earned. When I hit 2000 TPE I was the 20th player to do so (10 seasons ago). 10 seasons later and there are 100 players who have hit 2000 TPE.
I don't think we need to change much historically as the change from 50 to 66 games and the effect capped TPE had on the league in the past is comparable to the system we're implementing. I mean, I was able to play 400 (8x50) games before regression and someone called up at the same time as me now would be able to play 462 (7x66) before regressing.
That isn't to say we're sure we're right. We'll definitely re-evaluate that as this new regression takes shape.
I'm sad to hear that you're likely a one and done player but we can't make decisions based on a minority of people. I don't know many who sign up with the intention of only creating once.
12-02-2021, 03:52 PMCampinKiller Wrote: Idk who is in the next draft class, but surely some people in it have done the same good things for the community as well. Pushing it back because "well these people did a lot" is just a terrible look. And also pushes a solution to the parity issues further away.
That's not my logic here at all. I'm saying it's much more respectful of the amount of effort people have put into this to give them more than two weeks of warning before they get hit with a regression they didn't expect for another season. It's not "give these people a pass because they're great" it's giving everybody who's getting screwed a chance to be aware of that for more than a couple of weeks.
Somebody was going to get screwed by this in the end, but I don't think the best way to handle it was to wait until the last possible minute to tell them that.
Fair enough, I'm not really sure what the difference would be in knowing a month in advance instead of 2 weeks-ish though. If it were a few days then that would be outrageous, but I feel like planning-wise there's plenty of time still to figure it out
12-02-2021, 03:49 PMroastpuff Wrote: Thanks for your caring and thoughtful response.
It just seems that the 53/54 class gets fucked whenever it comes time to make these changes. We got fucked when it was made more expensive to get 19s and 20s, and we were told that "you'll have more longevity to make up for it, because we made it cheaper to get to 17/18 and fight off regression!"
But now, you just told us "Fuck you, we want you to die quicker. That longevity promise was a fake haha!"
We came into a new sim engine it was always going to be like this. Regression and the scale both needed to be adjusted. The system was broken and league results have been stale for 5 seasons minimum. Regression needed to change today. After regression you'll be about the TPE I am now
The league results have been stale for 5 seasons because FHM is broken with the way we have player attributes. Most of the top-tier teams are filled with McDavids, Crosby and Hedman equivalents. Test simming is broken. If you have the time and personnel, you can optimize your team around a strategy. Those teams that don't have the time or personnel are just on the outside, looking in.
You're implying that the players are the one broken, not the system.
That smiley face is just adding insult to injury. Thanks.
12-02-2021, 03:49 PMroastpuff Wrote: Some warning would have been nice, instead of getting it sprung on us as the very end of the season. Actually encouraging GMs to make changes and not hoard good players would also be nice - maybe a new salary cap tier? Maybe no HTDs? It just seems like a cop-out when you say that "Oh it's all relative." Players staying at their peak too long? It just means that the league has a more dedicated userbase than when it was in the STHS era.
They can hoard good players because players are good forever. The quicker players lose their peak means the sooner GMs have to replace them if they want to keep good players. Which means having good prospects ready. If you only have to replace 1 player because everyone in their first 5 seasons of regression is still over 2k TPE, that doesn't mean much. But if that peak drops off, then you have to worry about replacing multiple players, and teams that go without draft picks will suffer more.
The league doesn't have a more dedicated userbase than STHS. The league is bigger, but as mentioned in the OP there were quite a few TPE changes that made for more TPE opportunities (in removing the seasonal cap alone that's like 10 TPE per season extra). It just made it easier to blow past 2k TPE. Not to mention STHS was more balanced between the range of players so teams were much more even and there wasn't congregations of 2100 TPE players because realistically every team was probably at least getting double digit wins. Teams didn't need to completely sell off and players actually had a shot on playoff bubble teams of winning.
12-02-2021, 03:54 PMPatty Wrote: We came into a new sim engine it was always going to be like this. Regression and the scale both needed to be adjusted. The system was broken and league results have been stale for 5 seasons minimum. Regression needed to change today. After regression you'll be about the TPE I am now
The league results have been stale for 5 seasons because FHM is broken with the way we have player attributes. Most of the top-tier teams are filled with McDavids, Crosby and Hedman equivalents. Test simming is broken. If you have the time and personnel, you can optimize your team around a strategy. Those teams that don't have the time or personnel are just on the outside, looking in.
You're implying that the players are the one broken, not the system.
That smiley face is just adding insult to injury. Thanks.
I don't disagree with you there and we're working on addressing that part of it as well.
Sorry it comes off that way. I was just pointing out that you're still going to be a high TPE player. I'm going to get knocked to sub 1500. It sucks but it had to be someone.
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