It's a hard thing to balance; the dichotomy of "the sim team continually fucks up" vs "thank god people volunteer to keep the league running". The question is - how do you hold the sim team accountable for numerous mistakes without having them throw their hands up & saying "then you do it"? There's not a good answer, and until one is provided we'll just have to deal with whatever happens.
12-19-2024, 01:00 PMNJBadApple Wrote: It's a hard thing to balance; the dichotomy of "the sim team continually fucks up" vs "thank god people volunteer to keep the league running". The question is - how do you hold the sim team accountable for numerous mistakes without having them throw their hands up & saying "then you do it"? There's not a good answer, and until one is provided we'll just have to deal with whatever happens.
As mentioned in the original post:
Quote:Simmers are held responsible for their mistakes, often in the form of salary fines.
But also on the topic of balancing it out:
Quote:While we find it important to maintain a standard in how we operate, which includes the sims themselves, we find it equally important to understand that there are humans behind the usernames, humans who kindly volunteer numerous hours a week to bring you sims daily, which on the backend is no small feat when you consider everything that goes into a day for us as individuals outside of the league. All we ask is that you show patience, kindness and respect for your fellow user, especially in this moment in time in which we’re deploying new sim team members and new file-related processes, which inevitably comes with some delays until we all feel comfortable with it.
I'm not entirely sure where this answer comes from but it seems to be avoiding a lot of what was actually said. It might not be the end-all be-all answer, but for reasons mentioned in the original post as well, its not something we're in a position to do. This isn't meant to put to shame those who don't want to sim. While yes, we would love if more people expressed interest to do it, we also understand not everyone is in a position to, and ultimately the beauty of the SHL is that we can all cater a unique way of experiencing sim hockey based on our own parameters. Simply put, we will in fact continue dealing with whatever happens, as we've done before, because human error happens, we can't be shocked about that.
12-19-2024, 12:36 PMToast Wrote: I agree wholeheartedly. It's not just the GM side though. While I do understand sim team having frustrations with negative feedback, there is no reason to maliciously respond in the nature Wally did.
My response was specifically to Ruggsy posting "But if something like delayed sims without contact puts you off the league that much you should buckle up cause it's gonna happen again." and I felt the need to reiterate that we understand delays will come and will understand. There is clearly a misunderstanding of why frustrations boiled over there.
I'm also guilty of this and support whatever cause of action we're taking to curb the general attitude towards simmers. I don't want to see dedicated users piled on over things and I don't want to see GMs pushed away either because their feedback is met with attacks.
Text leagues/discord communication is difficult and just invites anger to blossom with reactionary messages. I've been at fault for that far too many times and felt the need to jump in when I saw things escalating against someone close to me. It's a whole messy situation that I understand has been bubbling for more than some time and I hope to be someone who can help curb it moving forward. Appreciate y'all getting this out there.
Echoing the last part: truly so much goes a long long way for everyone if we can continue to go into this with "they have good intentions".
Sometimes what HO, Simmers, GMs, and users feel is the best course of action to immediately fix the issue doesn't align. That's okay! We can have separate visions and potential priorities while still wanting a great SMJHL and SHL experience. It doesn't mean anyone working in those roles doesn't want what's best for the league. The more all of us can continue to keep that in the front of our minds, the stronger and better off our community can be.
12-19-2024, 01:00 PMNJBadApple Wrote: It's a hard thing to balance; the dichotomy of "the sim team continually fucks up" vs "thank god people volunteer to keep the league running". The question is - how do you hold the sim team accountable for numerous mistakes without having them throw their hands up & saying "then you do it"? There's not a good answer, and until one is provided we'll just have to deal with whatever happens.
Many times a "you do it" that stems from a place of frustration is a "try to put yourself in my shoes" moment.
12-19-2024, 12:41 PMRuggsy Wrote: Honestly not sure if this is supposed to be an insult or a joke lol. Cause it doesn't do too well in either department
Was trying to make a joke about other people needing to touch grass, guess it didn't land
12-19-2024, 12:32 PMPatty Wrote: it's important for all parts of the site to remember this is for fun. No one gets rich, when you do a job well or have in game success your nerd badge just gets a little shinier. It'd be nice if as a community we could assume the best of each other.
12-20-2024, 11:19 AM(This post was last modified: 12-20-2024, 11:22 AM by caltroit_red_flames. Edited 1 time in total.)
12-19-2024, 11:11 AMFrenchie Wrote: Are delays, mistakes worthy of being upset? Absolutely they are
I don't agree. Anyone who's genuinely upset is lacking perspective. This isn't a job, it's a hobby.
If simmers are "continually fucking up", then it's not the simmers' fault. That means there's an issue with the job that needs to be ironed out, likely a process issue.
12-20-2024, 11:19 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: I don't agree. Anyone who's genuinely upset is lacking perspective. This isn't a job, it's a hobby.
If simmers are "continually fucking up", then it's not the simmers' fault. That means there's an issue with the job that needs to be ironed out, likely a process issue.
There are levels to being upset. Being upset to the point where you publicly drag internal issues? Probably not, but I can understand people staying up, or organizing their schedule in such a way to be present for sims and to not be able to catch them, or for a specific player being excited about their debut only to not be added to the file.
On that last part, yes, and we've been working behind the scenes to make sure this doesn't happen. Will mistakes keep occurring? Obviously, there's zero chance of everything being perfect. That being said, we've already seen a positive change last season. With that in mind, we're going to try building off of that, but with new simmers, there will be some growing pains, but we're comfortable with that if it means a healthier job culture for the entire sim team.
12-20-2024, 12:00 PM(This post was last modified: 12-20-2024, 12:03 PM by scudmuffin19. Edited 1 time in total.)
12-20-2024, 11:19 AMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: I don't agree. Anyone who's genuinely upset is lacking perspective. This isn't a job, it's a hobby.
If simmers are "continually fucking up", then it's not the simmers' fault. That means there's an issue with the job that needs to be ironed out, likely a process issue.
i mean to be fair, the league's existed for 80ish seasons, and you're saying the simming job, the one most important operation aside from updating, still needs to be ironed out? we dont see this issue in the PBE, the ISFL or the SSL, so where is the systemical issue here and why hasnt it been addressed despite the SHL existing far longer than the aforementioned leagues?
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