Quote:Originally posted by Jorec@Aug 24 2016, 03:49 PM


I don't disagree with any particular point. He's had a monster season and honestly, it would make me pretty happy to see a defender win MVP. Although I wouldn't cite being almost #1 in PIM as something good for a #1 defender, those are a bad thing to accumulate.

I was referring specifically to why you cited time on ice as a detriment to some people and not to one in particular, despite him being, as I said before, a top five on ice player for the entire league.

Oh, should explain a little then.

Nuck has 61 points, as well as 102 PIM, which on average is ~2 min a game. If that two minutes was 5v5 or 4v4, we'd likely get more production.

It's a bad stat but used in this case to further the argument.

Why ice time as detrimental to one and not the other? Look at the Top 10 leaderboards for minutes played over the last ten seasons, how often has a forward been in the Top 5?

This seasons Top 5.

McZehrl 1,412 Mins -> 67 Points
Garbanzo 1,386 (-26 Mins) -> 52 Points
Nuck 1,366 Mins (-46 mins) -> 61 Points
Zoidberg 1,355 (-57 mins) -> 26 Points
Banananov 1,352 (-60 mins) -> 64 Points

It's much less impressive when you have literally played an extra games worth of ice time over 2nd place in league scoring.

A bit more context, I took the Top 75 Scorers and sorted by ice time.

1st (Top) VLAD McZerhl
67 Points -> 28.81 Mins Per Game

Other players getting 27+ Mins per game

Garbanzo 52 Points
Banananov 64 Points
Roy Razin 55 Points
Bubba Nuck 61 Points
Kian Hamilton 42 Points
Chuck Goody 42 Points
Jamie Hawkins 35 Points
Wyatt Wolker 42 Points

Average 51.1 Points with 27 Mins or More

As you can see, this is a bit skewed all over the place. I will look into another list

All Forwards over 25 Mins A Game

McZerhl 67 (28.81 MPG)
Banananov 64
Hamilton 42
Hawkins 35 (27.31 MPG) <--- Is the ONLY forward over 25 mins, not to crack 40 points)
Knight 57
Jakobson 54
Boyka 43 (25.57 MPG)

Still a bit all over the place though showing around 51, would be more if Hawkins was dropped from ratings.

All Defensemen over 25 Mins

Garbanzo 52 (28.88 MPG)
Razin 55
Nuck 61
Goody 42
Wolker 42
Stinson 45
Lidstrom 55 (26.14 MPG)


As you can tell, it's also around 50.28


37th (Middle) Randy Randleman
41 Points -> 20.95 Mins Per Game

Players with between 20.75 and 21.25 mins

Boychuk 40
Clitsome 41
Koroviev 40
Ballard 34
Bursyuk 35
Makinen 35

Average of 38 Points Per Average 21 Mins Ice Time


75th (Last) Mile Berger
33 Points -> 22.66 Mins Per Game (Increased ice time post trade to Hamilton)

75th (Last - Full Season, Single Team) Edienne Modano
33 Points - 20.00 Mins Per Game

Others with 19.00-20.50 Mins per game (not enough between 19.75 and 20.25)

Mack 45
Wikstrom 38
Collins 34
Fedorov 48
Pettyfer 40
Modano 33
Simons 42

Average of 39.125 Points for average of 19.75 mins a game.


There's the numbers, mins and what you should expect. Make your judgement call as you will.