09-09-2022, 08:41 PMjumpSeat Wrote:

09-09-2022, 07:56 PMGrapehead Wrote: I'm just saying there are tons of people with perfectly valid reasons to celebrate her death. Personally I'm not one of those people, but I recognize the evil that this monarchy in particular represents to several regions of the world.

Okay, that's fair. I think we can find middle ground on this. I'm glad to hear you're not one of those people who celebrate her death, and yes you're absolutely correct that what she represented is viewed very differently in other cultures. Personally, I don't believe in monarchy, so I'm not trying to say monarchy is good.

I guess what I'm saying is that while it's true the British Monarchy has a very tainted past, particularly with the way it treated certain indigenous peoples, (even to the point of destroying their language and culture - some would even charge genocide), I don't think you can lay all of that at her feet personally. Much of the oppression occurred prior to her reign. Plus I'm not familiar with any documented cases where she personally traveled overseas and committed acts of oppression.

Does that absolve her completely? No. As this may well be a case of guilt by association in the sense that she continued to uphold an institution that had a terrible track record of oppression in the past.

And I just want to point out that my own heritage is from a group of people who suffered greatly under British occupation and rule. Not as great as some mind you, but enough that much of our language and culture was lost. So I am somewhat familiar with that which I speak of.

(Not that it's particularly relevant, but I have studied my own family history and was surprised to learn my ancestors were once great landowners and akin to princes in the old country, until the British 'stole' the land and gave the title to those more sympathetic to the crown).

The point being, I don't hold any personal malice toward Elizabeth for our loss of station, and even though our family has been in decline ever since, I can't find it in me to hate her personally for something that happened hundreds of years before she was born. I'm not saying that makes me right or wrong. It's just the way I see it. Just like bad people, bad institutions can occasionally reform and I have a hard time condemning anyone for the way they used to be.

"Oh, you were a drunk and an alcoholic? Well you'll never be any good. You're worthless!" Sorry, but it's just not me.

Not to put my nose in the middle of this... however. You've completely skipped over her enabling her pedophilia child(ren) and protecting them from helping victims of rape from closure or any kind of justice.

There is a lot to not like about the royal family, not just things that happened 50 years ago.