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***hhh81*** · 11-16-2020, 10:31 AM

11-16-2020, 12:55 AMhhh81 Wrote: Reminder for me to come back and read this. I pitched something no doubt similar to this before s46. It didn't go over well.

Hello, I am back.

When I brought this up before the LET-ANA expansion, I suggested it under the premise that the SMJHL shrinks significantly as part of this (as in, we go back to 6-8 SMJHL teams) with several of the big market SMJHL teams people consistently complain about being juniors versus major teams (Detroit, Vancouver, etc) becoming SAHL franchises. This idea completely changes the purpose of the SMJHL, and many people are afraid of big changes, so it got kiboshed immediately.

I still think this is a good idea, especially in light of the eternal purgatory many 3rd and 4th year players are stuck in hoping and waiting to get called up. I think refocusing the J on what it's supposed to be about--keeping new users engaged and excited--is a smart move, and pulling the 3rd and 4th year players into a different "prove it" league could be interesting.

My only reluctance is we won't know for a few more seasons what the new cap rules will do to the balance of the league and call-ups, as half the league is still benefiting from grandfathered contracts (several of which are obscene TBH). I'm not sure a big change at this moment is the best idea, as we don't know how those variables will interact. I hope the HOs consider this idea, though. I'd be happy to work with some people thinking through this and seeing what might be possible.

PremierBromanov · 11-16-2020, 10:43 AM

11-16-2020, 10:31 AMhhh81 Wrote:
11-16-2020, 12:55 AMhhh81 Wrote: Reminder for me to come back and read this. I pitched something no doubt similar to this before s46. It didn't go over well.

My only reluctance is we won't know for a few more seasons what the new cap rules will do to the balance of the league and call-ups, as half the league is still benefiting from grandfathered contracts (several of which are obscene TBH). I'm not sure a big change at this moment is the best idea, as we don't know how those variables will interact. I hope the HOs consider this idea, though. I'd be happy to work with some people thinking through this and seeing what might be possible.

things seem to be working, i say we throw a few wrenches in there and see what happens

JumpierPegasus · 11-16-2020, 10:52 AM

I have theorized this in Detroit discord but never really made it very far. My biggest issue was that it used to be really really really fun to be a J player, because it was a 1 and done system, you went up against your direct peers for one season, and you getting ahead in TPE really mattered because you actually performed better. Versus now in the J when your first year can kind of be a write off and I feel like we lose people because they don't want to come in and score 8-15 points on line 3/4 in their first season in the league

I would almost move the SMJHL (as it is a mature league with so many teams already) to be a season 2-5 minor league and rebrand as the SMHL (Simulation Minor Hockey League). Keep the amount of teams (or contract by 2 whatever floats your boat) and treat it as a development, AHL type league. The big issue I ran into when theorizing this is then we'd need to either have to have a SMHL draft and SHL draft simultaneously or have affiliate systems like we used to. But then that means being an SMHL GM would be incredibly boring and awful and I don't see anyone wanting to do that if they can't draft, sign players, etc. because it is all handled by the big league team. It would require such a drastic shift to rules and wouldn't be easy and might be too convoluted to really work

Then I would have said create a new junior league with like 4-6 teams (similar to the old NWJHL size) and have it be a 1 and done league for rookies to go into so they can genuinely rip it up in their first season and get hooked on the league

But again, as mentioned, the SHL and the junior league are easy peasy. What do you do with that awkward middle minor league child? You'd need to make it fun for GM's but also not too complicated for the league to continue with. Might not be worth the effort when we could take a "if it aint broke don't fix it" approach

C9Van · 11-16-2020, 12:00 PM

I dunno if I like this idea.

As someone wanting HoF eventually this would probably hurt your chances of making it. Nice to be able to stand out but seems like it'd be more work than the league would want and I would imagine some would try to skip that league for the majors.

***artermis*** · 11-16-2020, 01:17 PM

the main reason I've always been against the farm system suggestions is that I love my SMJHL teams, and I stay there because I want to play with them

That being said, there are options that allow you to do that, but still there will be an impact on the J.

I guess ultimately I would just play my 4-5 seasons in the J then be a career farm player tho lmao

ml002 · 11-16-2020, 01:19 PM

11-16-2020, 10:52 AMJumpierPegasus Wrote: I have theorized this in Detroit discord but never really made it very far. My biggest issue was that it used to be really really really fun to be a J player, because it was a 1 and done system, you went up against your direct peers for one season, and you getting ahead in TPE really mattered because you actually performed better. Versus now in the J when your first year can kind of be a write off and I feel like we lose people because they don't want to come in and score 8-15 points on line 3/4 in their first season in the league

I would almost move the SMJHL (as it is a mature league with so many teams already) to be a season 2-5 minor league and rebrand as the SMHL (Simulation Minor Hockey League). Keep the amount of teams (or contract by 2 whatever floats your boat) and treat it as a development, AHL type league. The big issue I ran into when theorizing this is then we'd need to either have to have a SMHL draft and SHL draft simultaneously or have affiliate systems like we used to. But then that means being an SMHL GM would be incredibly boring and awful and I don't see anyone wanting to do that if they can't draft, sign players, etc. because it is all handled by the big league team. It would require such a drastic shift to rules and wouldn't be easy and might be too convoluted to really work

Then I would have said create a new junior league with like 4-6 teams (similar to the old NWJHL size) and have it be a 1 and done league for rookies to go into so they can genuinely rip it up in their first season and get hooked on the league

But again, as mentioned, the SHL and the junior league are easy peasy. What do you do with that awkward middle minor league child? You'd need to make it fun for GM's but also not too complicated for the league to continue with. Might not be worth the effort when we could take a "if it aint broke don't fix it" approach

Problem is now you can't really do 1 and done or even two and done. Frankly going up before your 3rd or 4th season can be detrimental because you are more likely to get milestones as a 425 capped player in the J than as a 700 tpe player in the SHL. That doesn't get into the weeds of teams simply not having room for young players. There are plenty of young players in the J that could make an impact for a bad team, but no one wants to leave their good team for a bad one. For most users they rate having a good LR over plating time which will inherently push players to stay somewhere of they get drafted there and like it.

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JumpierPegasus · 11-16-2020, 01:46 PM

11-16-2020, 01:19 PMml002 Wrote:
11-16-2020, 10:52 AMJumpierPegasus Wrote: I have theorized this in Detroit discord but never really made it very far. My biggest issue was that it used to be really really really fun to be a J player, because it was a 1 and done system, you went up against your direct peers for one season, and you getting ahead in TPE really mattered because you actually performed better. Versus now in the J when your first year can kind of be a write off and I feel like we lose people because they don't want to come in and score 8-15 points on line 3/4 in their first season in the league

I would almost move the SMJHL (as it is a mature league with so many teams already) to be a season 2-5 minor league and rebrand as the SMHL (Simulation Minor Hockey League). Keep the amount of teams (or contract by 2 whatever floats your boat) and treat it as a development, AHL type league. The big issue I ran into when theorizing this is then we'd need to either have to have a SMHL draft and SHL draft simultaneously or have affiliate systems like we used to. But then that means being an SMHL GM would be incredibly boring and awful and I don't see anyone wanting to do that if they can't draft, sign players, etc. because it is all handled by the big league team. It would require such a drastic shift to rules and wouldn't be easy and might be too convoluted to really work

Then I would have said create a new junior league with like 4-6 teams (similar to the old NWJHL size) and have it be a 1 and done league for rookies to go into so they can genuinely rip it up in their first season and get hooked on the league

But again, as mentioned, the SHL and the junior league are easy peasy. What do you do with that awkward middle minor league child? You'd need to make it fun for GM's but also not too complicated for the league to continue with. Might not be worth the effort when we could take a "if it aint broke don't fix it" approach

Problem is now you can't really do 1 and done or even two and done. Frankly going up before your 3rd or 4th season can be detrimental because you are more likely to get milestones as a 425 capped player in the J than as a 700 tpe player in the SHL. That doesn't get into the weeds of teams simply not having room for young players. There are plenty of young players in the J that could make an impact for a bad team, but no one wants to leave their good team for a bad one. For most users they rate having a good LR over plating time which will inherently push players to stay somewhere of they get drafted there and like it.

I think that's where the 3 tiered system comes in handy, you have a one and done juniors then 3-4 seasons to earn TPE in a capped minor league system before making the show. But again, as I noted, it just gets so convuluted in regards to rules and structure and such that it isn't worth it for the league because this system isn't necessarily broken

Nictox · 11-16-2020, 02:29 PM

I've talked about this before as well. My idea was to make the SMJHL a 2 season junior league with the 350 Cap. Make a middle league either one "minor" team for each SHL team or 8 minor teams with no cap and allow people to be sent between here and the SHL. It would have to introduce a waiver system like the real NHL. I'm very much in favor of this as it would also open more GM jobs to everyone. The minor teams wouldn't need to be all active players which means lower tpe actives could be top 6 while they are building towards the SHL roster.

RIP Dangel #AD26 | RIP TDZ

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