08-22-2018, 01:57 AMteztify Wrote: And I'm going to triple post but one last point.
If your hang up on this is that you're only a member here and you don't like this affiliation because it means players from one of the other leagues can now make an elite player with less work.. I kind of don't really get that. Let me explain.
In order for them to build a player of any relevance, they must do media or graphics to earn money for equipment and training, do activity checks, predictions, weekend point tasks, training camp, predictions, mock drafts, CW, etc. In addition to the now-affiliated weekly PTs.
You weren't very likely going to read their PT for your own entertainment. Them writing it here or elsewhere doesn't really matter for you because you wouldn't have seen it anyway.
This is my main point: They still did the same amount of work (or more, if you subscribe to the idea that our PTs are easier) as you did, and it still only affects you in one league because you are only in one league.
I could see you having a legitimate gripe with this if you're a person active in multiple leagues who enjoys writing separate PTs on each, but if you're only on one league anyway, in my view, it has absolutely no affect.
08-21-2018, 10:27 AMjRuutu Wrote: Still, not a good look when users like that are making decisions that effects SHL and the leagues they are also part of.
One league guy over here. Like I've said elsewhere, no plans to join either of the leagues we've affiliated with here either. I literally get nothing out of this myself.
But there has to be some players in the HO that do benefit from this, or where did the idea of going with these two leagues came up? Also, if the SHL wants to try something new, why not team up with VHL? They have made a lot of progress in short period of time and have new killer updating system.
It's been a while since this first came up so I can't answer that first question, I honestly can't remember how the conversation started.
As far as teaming up with VHL, I feel like that kind of negates your own argument - they have this same system with SBA and a third league (blanking at the moment).
That is fair and with the VHL comment I was more thinking about their new updating system that could really change the look of SHL as well.
08-21-2018, 11:32 AMMike Izzy Wrote: *responding to those that said it's wrong to believe that the SHL is the best league*
why would it be wrong to feel like the SHL is the best league? I see nothing wrong about that type of pride in a place where you put allot of time and effort in. I would suspect that for a portion of members here that type of pride would motivate them to take a policy making jobs to help move the site forward or to spend a portion of there time to make sure that the site migration was a success or to keep themselves away from other leagues and focus there best work here to give the SHL that high level activity and distinctivness. We shouldnt put down those members that consider the SHL the best SIM in the land, those members will be on the front line when we need something done that takes more then the casual member.
We mean that in as people who think the SHL is too good to cooperate with other sim leagues.
SHL has been running a lot longer than PBE and NFSL, why is it wrong to ask PBE and NFSL to stay on their lane and keep working on their own product instead of trying to find shortcuts? Some have mentioned that the PT´s are actually easier here than in PBE and NFSL. Does that not sound a lot like users in PBE/NFSL try to make SHL to be a league they can do their weekly PT´s in with less effort and also at the same time force their league down the throats of users in SHL? 100% win win for them, but I fail to see how SHL as a league benefits from this.
If it´s true that SHL PT´s are easier, why did the SHL take part in this? If people want to join hockey sim league and SHL, they will join in. No need to add cooperation like this with PBE and NFSL.
I agree with you man, but I guess I'm not down with be handed free TPE for doing a 3rd of the work. Just funny how leagues have coincided with out PT affiliation sense the start of the internet. Yet we must now deepend on 2 self admitted struggling leagues.
I like to work for my reward and because of the work I put in. I have more than a fleeting attachment to my player.
It´s a shame that the league is going to this direction, next something else will be made easier and then something again. Interesting to see how long it will take that the seasons are made shorter, cant be too much point in keeping the seasons as this long if the number of users who do PT´s on SHL will go lower and lower.
08-21-2018, 07:14 PMWhite Cornerback Wrote: SHL has been running a lot longer than PBE and NFSL, why is it wrong to ask PBE and NFSL to stay on their lane and keep working on their own product instead of trying to find shortcuts? Some have mentioned that the PT´s are actually easier here than in PBE and NFSL. Does that not sound a lot like users in PBE/NFSL try to make SHL to be a league they can do their weekly PT´s in with less effort and also at the same time force their league down the throats of users in SHL? 100% win win for them, but I fail to see how SHL as a league benefits from this.
If it´s true that SHL PT´s are easier, why did the SHL take part in this? If people want to join hockey sim league and SHL, they will join in. No need to add cooperation like this with PBE and NFSL.
You're literally missing the point entirely.
Edited for clarity.
How the fuck is a PT link finding a shortcut, you do realise that each of those leagues recruit themselves right? On forums, reddit, discords , whatever the fuck you name it. There's a sizable amount of people who are members of both leagues or even all three of the leagues who benefit from this. As well as the opportunity to get people active on either of the three sites who might have went IA due to workload or boredom. You said "some people have mentioned", so your entire point is based on the opinion of people, with no research into it yourself. You don't know jackshit about the PT's in any other league that you're not in, sO sTaY iN yOuR lAnE.
Who the fuck is forcing the league down your throat, nobody is forcing you to do anything. Don't join the fuckin leagues if you don't want to good lord. If you fail to see why the SHL benefits from this after the testimonies of tens of people in this thread including this detailed post to set you straight, then it would take a physical miracle to get you some clarity.
From my limited knowledge about PBE, the PT´s are harder there, need to write more and also, Timeconsumer here said that the PT´s are easier on SHL, so that is at least a start to my research.
PBE/NFSL are forcing their leagues down my throat with this PT affiliation, I´m guessing I will see this mentioned in the PT section here and I will also see the possible links, that is promoting their own league in key place of another league.
You and many who are so happy to see this change are just lazy, want to have as much fun as possible without doing the work. That is a fact. You can hide behind the ´Ooo, we are helping sim league community to get closer each other and helping all the leagues to have as many users as possible´ - line, but in the end it comes down to not wanting to do the PT´s in all three leagues.
Just because 20 people posts about it being a positive thing, does not mean it´s actually a positive thing. SHL allowed snakes from other leagues to sneak into top positions and now is paying the price for it, getting destroyed from the inside.
08-22-2018, 01:57 AMteztify Wrote: And I'm going to triple post but one last point.
If your hang up on this is that you're only a member here and you don't like this affiliation because it means players from one of the other leagues can now make an elite player with less work.. I kind of don't really get that. Let me explain.
In order for them to build a player of any relevance, they must do media or graphics to earn money for equipment and training, do activity checks, predictions, weekend point tasks, training camp, predictions, mock drafts, CW, etc. In addition to the now-affiliated weekly PTs.
You weren't very likely going to read their PT for your own entertainment. Them writing it here or elsewhere doesn't really matter for you because you wouldn't have seen it anyway.
This is my main point: They still did the same amount of work (or more, if you subscribe to the idea that our PTs are easier) as you did, and it still only affects you in one league because you are only in one league.
I could see you having a legitimate gripe with this if you're a person active in multiple leagues who enjoys writing separate PTs on each, but if you're only on one league anyway, in my view, it has absolutely no affect.
I have to disagree with you on the must do media/graphics and even buying equipment part, you really don´t have to write media or do graphics to build a relevant player. Sure, you might not reach tpe numbers closer to 2k, but you will still be elite player in your prime. Have to do all the PT´s still, but that takes a lot less time than writing media/doing graphics/having SHL job etc.
Should have promoted that angle more, do the PT´s and you will be just fine. Not paint a picture that if you don´t write a lot of media or do graphics, you will be irrelevant as a player - that is just a lie.
Also out of curiosity, If I go out for 1 hour run and then clean my apartment for another 30 minutes, can I claim my championship week TPE from that? I did the same amount of work after all?
Shame the users in leading positions let themselves to be played like this, this brings nothing good to SHL. Just makes SHL to be a place they do their PT´s for other leagues in, real activity happens in the other leagues.
08-21-2018, 11:32 AMMike Izzy Wrote: *responding to those that said it's wrong to believe that the SHL is the best league*
why would it be wrong to feel like the SHL is the best league? I see nothing wrong about that type of pride in a place where you put allot of time and effort in. I would suspect that for a portion of members here that type of pride would motivate them to take a policy making jobs to help move the site forward or to spend a portion of there time to make sure that the site migration was a success or to keep themselves away from other leagues and focus there best work here to give the SHL that high level activity and distinctivness. We shouldnt put down those members that consider the SHL the best SIM in the land, those members will be on the front line when we need something done that takes more then the casual member.
We mean that in as people who think the SHL is too good to cooperate with other sim leagues.
SHL has been running a lot longer than PBE and NFSL, why is it wrong to ask PBE and NFSL to stay on their lane and keep working on their own product instead of trying to find shortcuts? Some have mentioned that the PT´s are actually easier here than in PBE and NFSL. Does that not sound a lot like users in PBE/NFSL try to make SHL to be a league they can do their weekly PT´s in with less effort and also at the same time force their league down the throats of users in SHL? 100% win win for them, but I fail to see how SHL as a league benefits from this.
If it´s true that SHL PT´s are easier, why did the SHL take part in this? If people want to join hockey sim league and SHL, they will join in. No need to add cooperation like this with PBE and NFSL.
I agree with you man, but I guess I'm not down with be handed free TPE for doing a 3rd of the work. Just funny how leagues have coincided with out PT affiliation sense the start of the internet. Yet we must now deepend on 2 self admitted struggling leagues.
I like to work for my reward and because of the work I put in. I have more than a fleeting attachment to my player.
It´s a shame that the league is going to this direction, next something else will be made easier and then something again. Interesting to see how long it will take that the seasons are made shorter, cant be too much point in keeping the seasons as this long if the number of users who do PT´s on SHL will go lower and lower.
Why is it such a travesty that things are being made easier for people?
People should do things that actually contribute to the site, and not worry about spending oodles and oodles of time doing lame PTs nobody reads to keep their player somewhat competitive.
Also your comparison between doing a PT on another site and doing something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to sim leagues is awful.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
08-21-2018, 11:36 AMClint Eastwood Wrote: We mean that in as people who think the SHL is too good to cooperate with other sim leagues.
SHL has been running a lot longer than PBE and NFSL, why is it wrong to ask PBE and NFSL to stay on their lane and keep working on their own product instead of trying to find shortcuts? Some have mentioned that the PT´s are actually easier here than in PBE and NFSL. Does that not sound a lot like users in PBE/NFSL try to make SHL to be a league they can do their weekly PT´s in with less effort and also at the same time force their league down the throats of users in SHL? 100% win win for them, but I fail to see how SHL as a league benefits from this.
If it´s true that SHL PT´s are easier, why did the SHL take part in this? If people want to join hockey sim league and SHL, they will join in. No need to add cooperation like this with PBE and NFSL.
I agree with you man, but I guess I'm not down with be handed free TPE for doing a 3rd of the work. Just funny how leagues have coincided with out PT affiliation sense the start of the internet. Yet we must now deepend on 2 self admitted struggling leagues.
I like to work for my reward and because of the work I put in. I have more than a fleeting attachment to my player.
It´s a shame that the league is going to this direction, next something else will be made easier and then something again. Interesting to see how long it will take that the seasons are made shorter, cant be too much point in keeping the seasons as this long if the number of users who do PT´s on SHL will go lower and lower.
Why is it such a travesty that things are being made easier for people?
People should do things that actually contribute to the site, and not worry about spending oodles and oodles of time doing lame PTs nobody reads to keep their player somewhat competitive.
Also your comparison between doing a PT on another site and doing something COMPLETELY UNRELATED to sim leagues is awful.
If people want to be part of the league, why is it such a travesty to ask people to do fairly simple PT´s that in all honesty don´t take much time out of your week?
I don´t see how allowing people to claim PT`s in SHL that they have done elsewhere helps with that?
Both bring equal amount of activity to SHL. If I watch out of the window and if someone does a PT in some other league = Nothing happens in SHL.
08-22-2018, 08:52 AM(This post was last modified: 08-22-2018, 08:53 AM by ArGarBarGar.)
08-22-2018, 08:32 AMjRuutu Wrote: If people want to be part of the league, why is it such a travesty to ask people to do fairly simple PT´s that in all honesty don´t take much time out of your week?
I don´t see how allowing people to claim PT`s in SHL that they have done elsewhere helps with that?
Both bring equal amount of activity to SHL. If I watch out of the window and if someone does a PT in some other league = Nothing happens in SHL.
Why do people NEED to do a PT for each site? The only thing a PT does is act like a more elaborate activity check. It doesn't create "activity" and doesn't make the site more interesting.
If people are incentivized to make players here without having to do PTs, that can increase the user base and more people writing media, discussing things going on in the SHL, and perhaps bring more people to do other jobs that have a tangible benefit to the league (updating, record keeping, awards, HO, simming, etc.)
This action benefits all leagues involved.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
08-22-2018, 08:32 AMjRuutu Wrote: If people want to be part of the league, why is it such a travesty to ask people to do fairly simple PT´s that in all honesty don´t take much time out of your week?
I don´t see how allowing people to claim PT`s in SHL that they have done elsewhere helps with that?
Both bring equal amount of activity to SHL. If I watch out of the window and if someone does a PT in some other league = Nothing happens in SHL.
Why do people NEED to do a PT for each site? The only thing a PT does is act like a more elaborate activity check. It doesn't create "activity" and doesn't make the site more interesting.
If people are incentivized to make players here without having to do PTs, that can increase the user base and more people writing media, discussing things going on in the SHL, and perhaps bring more people to do other jobs that have a tangible benefit to the league (updating, record keeping, awards, HO, simming, etc.)
This action benefits all leagues involved.
Why does SHL need to be a site that caves into that? If there already is sites that do that PT affiliation with each other, why cant we have one in SHL that does the opposite and asks more from it´s users? And with more I mean - the PT´s.
Don´t have the time to do 150 words + other smaller tasks per week, but all of a sudden have the time to write articles, be active member of the site and maybe even have a job around the site?
This is 100% a move that benefits users in PBE/NFSL, makes their weekly ´grind´ easier when they can do their PT´s in SHL and they also get to promote their leagues in a prime window in SHL. Why don´t you change the SHL logo to be a Coca-Cola sign while you are at it?
08-22-2018, 08:32 AMjRuutu Wrote: If people want to be part of the league, why is it such a travesty to ask people to do fairly simple PT´s that in all honesty don´t take much time out of your week?
I don´t see how allowing people to claim PT`s in SHL that they have done elsewhere helps with that?
Both bring equal amount of activity to SHL. If I watch out of the window and if someone does a PT in some other league = Nothing happens in SHL.
Why do people NEED to do a PT for each site? The only thing a PT does is act like a more elaborate activity check. It doesn't create "activity" and doesn't make the site more interesting.
If people are incentivized to make players here without having to do PTs, that can increase the user base and more people writing media, discussing things going on in the SHL, and perhaps bring more people to do other jobs that have a tangible benefit to the league (updating, record keeping, awards, HO, simming, etc.)
This action benefits all leagues involved.
Why does SHL need to be a site that caves into that? If there already is sites that do that PT affiliation with each other, why cant we have one in SHL that does the opposite and asks more from it´s users? And with more I mean - the PT´s.
Don´t have the time to do 150 words + other smaller tasks per week, but all of a sudden have the time to write articles, be active member of the site and maybe even have a job around the site?
This is 100% a move that benefits users in PBE/NFSL, makes their weekly ´grind´ easier when they can do their PT´s in SHL and they also get to promote their leagues in a prime window in SHL. Why don´t you change the SHL logo to be a Coca-Cola sign while you are at it?
I already explained why this is a good thing. You have yet to explain why the SHL needs to have this arbitrary standard of "asking more of its users."
As far as "not having the time to write 150+ words"? Some may not have time. Some may have time but not want to rely on doing it to maintain a competitive player in this league, so they don't bother coming here or contributing in any way that they would find enjoyable. Some may want to use their time for something fun, or just enjoy the community here and not write any articles or PTs here but contribute in discussion threads when they can on their phone or whatever. Or maybe some people may not have time right now, but later will have time and by that point will have been part of a community and will want to start doing more things for the site after getting involved earlier. If any of those things happens then this affiliation program is a success.
You have not provided a single downside to this. Only that other leagues may benefit more. So what?
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
The one thing that really bothers me in these kinds of discussions is how people keep assuming bad intentions on the other side, could we please stop doing that? The people in favor of this change aren't lazy snakes who want to see the SHL die and the people against it aren't elitist pricks who hate all other leagues. We all want the SHL and sim leagues in general to thrive and simply disagree on whether this change will help with that goal or not.
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