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taterswc · 04-23-2025, 02:41 PM

04-23-2025, 01:55 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: This seems a little disingenuous given that the rule wasn't "unwritten" it was clearly communicated to GMs multiple times and acknowledged by the GM in question, it just had not been added to the rulebook yet.

I'm personally totally satisfied with the outcome of this one, but to imply that all of Head Office is not "trustworthy" for following through on procedures that were clearly communicated to GMs in multiple places seems...rough.

When a "Rule" doesn't make it into the rulebook for 2 seasons it's not really a rule. So no I don't think it's enough to say I don't trust a head office that arbitrarily punishes players for a rule that is not in the rule book. And that goes against a rule that is in the rule book. I get that we all make mistakes but removing the player feels like HO overreacting. I stand by my absolute distain for this move and will happily double down on it.

***sköldpaddor*** · 04-23-2025, 02:43 PM

04-23-2025, 02:35 PMsytarah Wrote: gms should also be allowed to reply with :( whenever they mess up rather than facing real consequences

You're absolutely right (that I should face consequences, not that GMs should be able to do whatever). I'll consult with the rest of HO and see what fine they feel is appropriate for this. It might not be a rule anywhere, but that doesn't mean I don't have a responsibility to the community to make sure we keep up with this stuff.

sytarah · 04-23-2025, 02:48 PM

04-23-2025, 02:43 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: You're absolutely right (that I should face consequences, not that GMs should be able to do whatever). I'll consult with the rest of HO and see what fine they feel is appropriate for this. It might not be a rule anywhere, but that doesn't mean I don't have a responsibility to the community to make sure we keep up with this stuff.

Looking forward to seeing what comes out of this! Smile

***Seany148*** · 04-23-2025, 03:00 PM

Sounds like resident silly Seany will be applying to next HO because I have no life and obsessive perfectionism

***Frenchie*** · 04-23-2025, 03:25 PM

04-23-2025, 02:41 PMtaterswc Wrote: When a "Rule" doesn't make it into the rulebook for 2 seasons it's not really a rule. So no I don't think it's enough to say I don't trust a head office that arbitrarily punishes players for a rule that is not in the rule book. And that goes against a rule that is in the rule book. I get that we all make mistakes but removing the player feels like HO overreacting. I stand by my absolute distain for this move and will happily double down on it.

While we need to be better about making sure rule changes make it into the rulebook in a timely manner, which we're committed to improving, this shouldn't make changes announced in official communications, namely SOTU's or other public announcements non-binding and constitute a valid and enforceable tool. We've already discussed this fact within HO, and before this can become a reality, we understand we need to be more clear, transparent and organized in these intentions and in how we approach it. While I don't think we can excuse ourselves for not pushing these changes within the rulebook earlier, I think we need to slow down on labeling HO an untrustworthy and overreacting bunch. We acted based on known rules (which we understand we did a poor job in making them accessible), and expecting us to be able to commit full time job levels of time, energy and effort when the league struggles with commitment to basic decency between its users is a bit of a stretch here.

That being said, we're always looking for people to chime in with constructive feedback and suggestions to what we can improve, so I appreciate that these feelings of yours were made known so that we can look at improving things moving forward!

@"jason kranz" sig elite / @sulovilen elite sig

Sizz · 04-23-2025, 04:04 PM

I have officially been coaxed off the retirement ledge with this appeal decision. Thanks to everyone involved. The last 36 hours have been some of the least enjoyable since I joined the league two years ago.

*Katth* · 04-23-2025, 04:30 PM

04-23-2025, 02:43 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: You're absolutely right (that I should face consequences, not that GMs should be able to do whatever). I'll consult with the rest of HO and see what fine they feel is appropriate for this. It might not be a rule anywhere, but that doesn't mean I don't have a responsibility to the community to make sure we keep up with this stuff.

Don’t feed the troll, but then again he might leave for breakfast/lunch/dinner. So go ahead.

S50 Challenge Cup Finals Game 7
[Image: gNFVjT6.png]

taterswc · 04-23-2025, 04:35 PM

04-23-2025, 03:25 PMFrenchie Wrote: While we need to be better about making sure rule changes make it into the rulebook in a timely manner, which we're committed to improving, this shouldn't make changes announced in official communications, namely SOTU's or other public announcements non-binding and constitute a valid and enforceable tool. We've already discussed this fact within HO, and before this can become a reality, we understand we need to be more clear, transparent and organized in these intentions and in how we approach it. While I don't think we can excuse ourselves for not pushing these changes within the rulebook earlier, I think we need to slow down on labeling HO an untrustworthy and overreacting bunch. We acted based on known rules (which we understand we did a poor job in making them accessible), and expecting us to be able to commit full time job levels of time, energy and effort when the league struggles with commitment to basic decency between its users is a bit of a stretch here.

That being said, we're always looking for people to chime in with constructive feedback and suggestions to what we can improve, so I appreciate that these feelings of yours were made known so that we can look at improving things moving forward!

I think we are going to hard disagree on this. If you make a rule that says I can't say fuck anymore. You post it on the sotu and not the rule book is every user supposed to know every sotu? Like we can read the rule book. It should be comprehensive. I'm not saying you have to update it in seconds I'm saying punishing based on rules that are buried in other posts and not the rulebook is horse shit and I'll die on that hill. My respect for most of HO is gone and I have no problem making my distain know.

***hockeyiscool*** · 04-23-2025, 04:41 PM

04-23-2025, 02:41 PMtaterswc Wrote: When a "Rule" doesn't make it into the rulebook for 2 seasons it's not really a rule. So no I don't think it's enough to say I don't trust a head office that arbitrarily punishes players for a rule that is not in the rule book. And that goes against a rule that is in the rule book. I get that we all make mistakes but removing the player feels like HO overreacting. I stand by my absolute distain for this move and will happily double down on it.

I agree with you for the most part. unfortunately for new rules they have put to the test. As someone has to be the first bloodied body through the wall. I also know we're all people and make mistakes, and HO is no exception which is why we have an appeals team as a safety net. As a result of this safety net it forces head office to issue penalties that they believe occurred even if they may think the applications are being used in an unintended manor. This enables head office to be bold in what they think should happen going forward without repercussions and the appeals team keeps it inline with the spirit of the game, past precedents, etc.

This is more of a general statement on the situation not really targeted at anyone
my mistake was I forgot to press update post before closing out of a thread that I was editing to include players which is why this and the punishment thread exists. I will reiterate the original appeal post, we are not being punished for the initial rule that is not in the rulebook. We are being punished for not having a transaction posted for players who played games in the season, which is in the rulebook and has a clear punishment for (which was assessed). Fortunately, this has put a magnifying glass on a long standing problem (the rulebook not being properly maintained and updated) that has existed since I've joined the site and due to the extreme nature of this scenario. I am hopeful a system is put in place so that all GMs new and old have a level playing field when it comes to knowing what is allowed and is not. I am thankful that this got reduced to the punishment that it currently is, as it is more inline with the spirit of game and hopefully it has started more dialog and may even cause improvements to our existing site systems as continued growth and being better should be a goal for us. Lastly, I want to say we're all in this together and I think that sometimes gets lost, it costs nothing to be kind.

***sköldpaddor*** · 04-23-2025, 04:42 PM

04-23-2025, 04:35 PMtaterswc Wrote: I think we are going to hard disagree on this. If you make a rule that says I can't say fuck anymore. You post it on the sotu and not the rule book is every user supposed to know every sotu? Like we can read the rule book. It should be comprehensive. I'm not saying you have to update it in seconds I'm saying punishing based on rules that are buried in other posts and not the rulebook is horse shit and I'll die on that cross. My respect for most of HO is gone and I have no problem making my distain know.

okay but you say "most" - which of us got away with it?

jackkmart · 04-23-2025, 04:43 PM

04-23-2025, 04:35 PMtaterswc Wrote: If you make a rule that says I can't say fuck anymore...

Don't give them any ideas

*JURT* · 04-23-2025, 04:48 PM

04-23-2025, 02:43 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: You're absolutely right (that I should face consequences, not that GMs should be able to do whatever). I'll consult with the rest of HO and see what fine they feel is appropriate for this. It might not be a rule anywhere, but that doesn't mean I don't have a responsibility to the community to make sure we keep up with this stuff.

If it's not a rule you can't be punished for it! What's the rule about punishing people for not adding the rule about punishing people for not adding rules?!?!?

***Waters*** · 04-23-2025, 04:50 PM

04-23-2025, 04:43 PMjackkmart Wrote: Don't give them any ideas

guy called jack that's a big fan of kmart but doesnt know they went bankrupt

jackkmart · 04-23-2025, 05:09 PM

04-23-2025, 04:50 PMWaters Wrote: guy called jack that's a big fan of kmart but doesnt know they went bankrupt

just bc one of my business endeavors wasn't ultimately successful doesn't give you the right to harass me Rant

taterswc · 04-23-2025, 05:15 PM

04-23-2025, 04:42 PMsköldpaddor Wrote: okay but you say "most" - which of us got away with it?

Most is anyone that agreed to disenfranchising a player from their team. That act alone is ridiculous, embarrassing and shameful to every single player in the league. Let people play fake hockey and save the power plays for on the ice

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