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*Carpy48* · 03-04-2022, 02:07 AM

Let's hope this will bring a positive change. It might come too late for some that have already retired or are much too deep into regression/playing their last season, but for the rest of the league at least.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 03-04-2022, 06:34 AM

Looks good, let's hope it helps!

C9Van · 03-04-2022, 09:00 AM

Very nice. Well played Finn.

*RashfordU* · 03-04-2022, 09:02 AM

03-04-2022, 12:06 AMAgentSmith630 Wrote: Quick Thread Team

FORWARDS:
Mats Marner | Jimmy Wagner | Jean-Uhtered Ragnarsson-Tremblay
Slap McShotty | Pablo Salvaticci | "Long" John Donair
Yngve Simonsson | Burlok Sulfurgold | Reid Sutherland

DEFENSE:
Rikard Bjerg | Dee Centerman IV
Tony Pepperoni | Granny PanPan
Mikko Rashford | Hans Graf

GOALIES:
Cillian Kavanagh
Justin Time

Thank you good sir

***Chevy*** · 03-04-2022, 10:27 AM

First off I can say that, as it pertains to the learning curve and new GM's, this is a good move.

As it pertains to teams and individual players though, I can see this having a negative effect. A couple case points (for the sake of argument):

Special Teams

If a team sets their global sliders for example to be very high on attacking, and very low on backchecking (as the current meta dictates), This doesn't necessarily affect Powerplay units, however, it has the ability to make Penalty Kill units entirely less effective. Via the tactical sliders you can absolutely dictate that with Penalty Kill units you can slow down the pace of the game (to kill the penalty), as well as be entirely defensive vs offensive, which is how it natively should be.

Checking lines & specialty Players

On even strength lines, if you have a checking line...it would be counter intuitive to have them be highly offensive as opposed to their main function (defense oriented). I myself have used lines like this in IIHF, SHL and SMJHL to varying degrees of success. It could not have functioned properly had I not been able to dictate to a checking line not to go "balls to the wall" offensively and be more conservative in play. The same can be said with specialty roles like Agitator, Shadow, Crease-clearing Defenseman. In the individual tendencies is where these shine. Using crease-clearing defenseman as an example: If your team follows the current meta and is very high on the pressure and hitting slider, then what happens with a CCD? Instead of maintaining their position in front of the net, they will be pulled out of position to try and check the person with the puck, or put a hit on them into next week. How does this affect the player? Their DGR and overall GR goes down. Their +/- can then be affected, and so on. Same can be said if you are creating (again, focusing on defenseman here) an OFD or DFD. If you are a defensive defenseman, it doesn't make sense to have them follow the rest of the team with the "attack" slider maxed out to try and smash the net. Their shooting, naturally isn't going to be fantastic (we default them to 12 accuracy), so they'll spam shot after shot after shot. Shooting percentage goes down and, because the shots are poor quality, Goalie save percentages skyrocket. Instead, via the individual sliders we can dictate to these defenseman to well...you know...be defensive.

Defenseman especially don't get their points from goal scoring primarily. Its their assists that shoot through the roof by being able to find that open forward for the goal...or in the rare case they're wide open at the point and they can take that shot and hope it goes in.

Anyway, that's my brief take against this move as I believe there are multiple other things that could be addressed aside from this to help level the playing field, but that's neither here nor there.

Mooty99 · 03-04-2022, 10:35 AM

It is great that HO is willing to take such steps, I hope this is the first in a number of changes, good work.

By-Tor · 03-04-2022, 10:53 AM

I discovered I could do unit and player tactics two days ago while tinkering in FHM. HO giveth and HO taketh away lol.

Credit to enigmatic, Merica, tweedledunn, and jaypc8237 for sigs

Shylo_Moxii · 03-04-2022, 10:55 AM

If that’s the case is everyone going to have the same tactical strategies set?

*Wally* · 03-04-2022, 11:03 AM

I do support this… Even if it isn’t the last of changes I think it is a good first step that can then lead to further tinkering to get us to where we need to be at long term.

***WannabeFinn*** · 03-04-2022, 11:08 AM

03-04-2022, 11:03 AMWally Wrote: I do support this… Even if it isn’t the last of changes I think it is a good first step that can then lead to further tinkering to get us to where we need to be at long term.

It’s definitely just a first step Smile

trella · 03-04-2022, 11:14 AM

@WannabeFinn thank you for this change. Very happy with this

Thanks to @karey and @JSS for the sigs!

Former USA Fed Head, Carolina Kraken Co-GM, Tampa Bay Barracuda GM

SlashACM · 03-04-2022, 12:11 PM

03-04-2022, 10:55 AMShylo_Moxii Wrote: If that’s the case is everyone going to have the same tactical strategies set?

That's already the case

***Rankle*** · 03-04-2022, 12:14 PM

03-04-2022, 10:27 AMGeekusoid Wrote: First off I can say that, as it pertains to the learning curve and new GM's, this is a good move.

As it pertains to teams and individual players though, I can see this having a negative effect. A couple case points (for the sake of argument):

Special Teams

If a team sets their global sliders for example to be very high on attacking, and very low on backchecking (as the current meta dictates), This doesn't necessarily affect Powerplay units, however, it has the ability to make Penalty Kill units entirely less effective. Via the tactical sliders you can absolutely dictate that with Penalty Kill units you can slow down the pace of the game (to kill the penalty), as well as be entirely defensive vs offensive, which is how it natively should be.

Checking lines & specialty Players

On even strength lines, if you have a checking line...it would be counter intuitive to have them be highly offensive as opposed to their main function (defense oriented). I myself have used lines like this in IIHF, SHL and SMJHL to varying degrees of success. It could not have functioned properly had I not been able to dictate to a checking line not to go "balls to the wall" offensively and be more conservative in play. The same can be said with specialty roles like Agitator, Shadow, Crease-clearing Defenseman. In the individual tendencies is where these shine. Using crease-clearing defenseman as an example: If your team follows the current meta and is very high on the pressure and hitting slider, then what happens with a CCD? Instead of maintaining their position in front of the net, they will be pulled out of position to try and check the person with the puck, or put a hit on them into next week. How does this affect the player? Their DGR and overall GR goes down. Their +/- can then be affected, and so on. Same can be said if you are creating (again, focusing on defenseman here) an OFD or DFD. If you are a defensive defenseman, it doesn't make sense to have them follow the rest of the team with the "attack" slider maxed out to try and smash the net. Their shooting, naturally isn't going to be fantastic (we default them to 12 accuracy), so they'll spam shot after shot after shot. Shooting percentage goes down and, because the shots are poor quality, Goalie save percentages skyrocket. Instead, via the individual sliders we can dictate to these defenseman to well...you know...be defensive.

Defenseman especially don't get their points from goal scoring primarily. Its their assists that shoot through the roof by being able to find that open forward for the goal...or in the rare case they're wide open at the point and they can take that shot and hope it goes in.

Anyway, that's my brief take against this move as I believe there are multiple other things that could be addressed aside from this to help level the playing field, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not an FHM expert, but would it be possible to have league-wide static sliders set for individual player types? So, per your example, anyone in the league running a DFD has the same sliders for that player and they dont get stuck playing as a DFD but playing towards the team sliders for a more offensive player type. If we could do something like that it could still help make things easier for GMs by taking the individual player sliders out of their control, but not force each player be at the mercy of the team sliders. Thinking along the same lines, could we have league-wide static penalty kill sliders so the penalty kill doesnt end up playing a high attack, low backcheck style like you mentioned?

Chomp Chomp Water Dog Barracuda

Scarecrow Noises Scarecrows

caltroit_red_flames · 03-04-2022, 12:52 PM

03-04-2022, 12:14 PMRankle Wrote:
03-04-2022, 10:27 AMGeekusoid Wrote: First off I can say that, as it pertains to the learning curve and new GM's, this is a good move.

As it pertains to teams and individual players though, I can see this having a negative effect. A couple case points (for the sake of argument):

Special Teams

If a team sets their global sliders for example to be very high on attacking, and very low on backchecking (as the current meta dictates), This doesn't necessarily affect Powerplay units, however, it has the ability to make Penalty Kill units entirely less effective. Via the tactical sliders you can absolutely dictate that with Penalty Kill units you can slow down the pace of the game (to kill the penalty), as well as be entirely defensive vs offensive, which is how it natively should be.

Checking lines & specialty Players

On even strength lines, if you have a checking line...it would be counter intuitive to have them be highly offensive as opposed to their main function (defense oriented). I myself have used lines like this in IIHF, SHL and SMJHL to varying degrees of success. It could not have functioned properly had I not been able to dictate to a checking line not to go "balls to the wall" offensively and be more conservative in play. The same can be said with specialty roles like Agitator, Shadow, Crease-clearing Defenseman. In the individual tendencies is where these shine. Using crease-clearing defenseman as an example: If your team follows the current meta and is very high on the pressure and hitting slider, then what happens with a CCD? Instead of maintaining their position in front of the net, they will be pulled out of position to try and check the person with the puck, or put a hit on them into next week. How does this affect the player? Their DGR and overall GR goes down. Their +/- can then be affected, and so on. Same can be said if you are creating (again, focusing on defenseman here) an OFD or DFD. If you are a defensive defenseman, it doesn't make sense to have them follow the rest of the team with the "attack" slider maxed out to try and smash the net. Their shooting, naturally isn't going to be fantastic (we default them to 12 accuracy), so they'll spam shot after shot after shot. Shooting percentage goes down and, because the shots are poor quality, Goalie save percentages skyrocket. Instead, via the individual sliders we can dictate to these defenseman to well...you know...be defensive.

Defenseman especially don't get their points from goal scoring primarily. Its their assists that shoot through the roof by being able to find that open forward for the goal...or in the rare case they're wide open at the point and they can take that shot and hope it goes in.

Anyway, that's my brief take against this move as I believe there are multiple other things that could be addressed aside from this to help level the playing field, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not an FHM expert, but would it be possible to have league-wide static sliders set for individual player types? So, per your example, anyone in the league running a DFD has the same sliders for that player and they dont get stuck playing as a DFD but playing towards the team sliders for a more offensive player type. If we could do something like that it could still help make things easier for GMs by taking the individual player sliders out of their control, but not force each player be at the mercy of the team sliders. Thinking along the same lines, could we have league-wide static penalty kill sliders so the penalty kill doesnt end up playing a high attack, low backcheck style like you mentioned?

Yes this is 100% possible and I would fucking love it if we did this. I think people are starting to really see the possibilities that archetypes provide. HO has made 1 really great step with this change and I expect them to continue making good steps.

Something for people to understand though, archetypes are going to take a lot of testing and iterating. PBE hasn't even finished coming up with perfect archetypes yet and there have been a lot of archetype updates. And with FHM 8 coming we'll need to re-test. My guess is that we'll jump to FHM 8 and then look at implementing archs after.

Love the suggestion!

***Chevy*** · 03-04-2022, 01:23 PM

03-04-2022, 12:14 PMRankle Wrote:
03-04-2022, 10:27 AMGeekusoid Wrote: First off I can say that, as it pertains to the learning curve and new GM's, this is a good move.

As it pertains to teams and individual players though, I can see this having a negative effect. A couple case points (for the sake of argument):

Special Teams

If a team sets their global sliders for example to be very high on attacking, and very low on backchecking (as the current meta dictates), This doesn't necessarily affect Powerplay units, however, it has the ability to make Penalty Kill units entirely less effective. Via the tactical sliders you can absolutely dictate that with Penalty Kill units you can slow down the pace of the game (to kill the penalty), as well as be entirely defensive vs offensive, which is how it natively should be.

Checking lines & specialty Players

On even strength lines, if you have a checking line...it would be counter intuitive to have them be highly offensive as opposed to their main function (defense oriented). I myself have used lines like this in IIHF, SHL and SMJHL to varying degrees of success. It could not have functioned properly had I not been able to dictate to a checking line not to go "balls to the wall" offensively and be more conservative in play. The same can be said with specialty roles like Agitator, Shadow, Crease-clearing Defenseman. In the individual tendencies is where these shine. Using crease-clearing defenseman as an example: If your team follows the current meta and is very high on the pressure and hitting slider, then what happens with a CCD? Instead of maintaining their position in front of the net, they will be pulled out of position to try and check the person with the puck, or put a hit on them into next week. How does this affect the player? Their DGR and overall GR goes down. Their +/- can then be affected, and so on. Same can be said if you are creating (again, focusing on defenseman here) an OFD or DFD. If you are a defensive defenseman, it doesn't make sense to have them follow the rest of the team with the "attack" slider maxed out to try and smash the net. Their shooting, naturally isn't going to be fantastic (we default them to 12 accuracy), so they'll spam shot after shot after shot. Shooting percentage goes down and, because the shots are poor quality, Goalie save percentages skyrocket. Instead, via the individual sliders we can dictate to these defenseman to well...you know...be defensive.

Defenseman especially don't get their points from goal scoring primarily. Its their assists that shoot through the roof by being able to find that open forward for the goal...or in the rare case they're wide open at the point and they can take that shot and hope it goes in.

Anyway, that's my brief take against this move as I believe there are multiple other things that could be addressed aside from this to help level the playing field, but that's neither here nor there.

I'm not an FHM expert, but would it be possible to have league-wide static sliders set for individual player types? So, per your example, anyone in the league running a DFD has the same sliders for that player and they dont get stuck playing as a DFD but playing towards the team sliders for a more offensive player type. If we could do something like that it could still help make things easier for GMs by taking the individual player sliders out of their control, but not force each player be at the mercy of the team sliders. Thinking along the same lines, could we have league-wide static penalty kill sliders so the penalty kill doesnt end up playing a high attack, low backcheck style like you mentioned?

I think this would be a great compromise.

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