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***Frenchie*** · 12-03-2023, 05:38 PM

I'm not quoting anyone here, but it seems a lot of people are missing out on the point that this is a temporary solution, this is not a forever thing. So while I get what people are saying, they're m00t points considering this. They'll come back, and when they do it'll be because the back-end stuff is fixed, stable, and prone to having live sims in a format that is better for engagement. This is a necessary change.

***hockeyfan*** · 12-03-2023, 05:39 PM

12-03-2023, 04:33 PMr0tzbua Wrote: dunno if you replied to the wrong post but I sure get why quick sims still need to be steamed. I only streamed IIHF in the past here but I get it.

like I said I mainly think this will impact new player retention maybe not on the live part but on the rewatch part and seeing “their” player do things that you can’t see in the index.

it was not perfect, far from it, but I’m not sure why the figuring out can’t be a parallel process and not tear it down and figure it out somewhat by doing that?

Data is good and nice but imho looking at it only from one end is the wrong approach, you may not hit the numbers on livestreams or rewatches to warrant it, but what about the "quickly click in afterwards and check what my player did" numbers. I'm not talking about people tuning in while the stream is going necessarily, trust me, I streamed IIHF for like 5-6 people throughout my whole time there and it was fine, I sent people nice clips afterwards if they did something cool and they loved it. I had fun with music and even the 5 people that watched, had fun with the streaming process in by itself. I just feel long-term this will hurt more than it will bring you.

And yea, I did quicksims in my IIHF streams, but not only, I did sprinkle it with full games to give each team at least one game a stream day so they can have their retention and highlights for those, it took time, of course, being a simmer/streamer and doing something for the league takes work for sure, but if it's for the betterment of the league and retention isn't it worth it?

https://simulationhockey.com/showthread.php?tid=133022

*Grum* · 12-03-2023, 05:52 PM

I think we got bigger problems at hand if our retention is relying on dots flying around a screen. Like I get it, I thought live simming was super cool when it was first released and I'm sure that is a good selling point to new creates but I think most people who are here for a long time can agree that we aren't staying here cause of live simming or even the sim part in general. Also it was just mentioned but, it isn't like they said this is permanent and there is still going to be live simming in playoffs .-.

Bfine · 12-03-2023, 06:24 PM

I like this change as a temporary fix to get some more consistency within the sim team. It’s a tough trigger to pull but I’m glad someone did it.

I think the larger issue does come from OOTP not giving FHM a good viewing experience. They’ve done a good job with the engine PBE uses and it’s frustrating they won’t give something of similar quality to FHM. Hell I’d even take what we got in FHM 6 even though I understand why we can’t use that anymore. I’m sure HO is keeping eyes on what sims are out there and if any will allow us to do what we need to, it would just be nice if in the future FHM 10 or 11 gave us a working live sim experience.

r0tzbua · 12-03-2023, 06:27 PM

12-03-2023, 05:52 PMGrum Wrote: I think we got bigger problems at hand if our retention is relying on dots flying around a screen. Like I get it, I thought live simming was super cool when it was first released and I'm sure that is a good selling point to new creates but I think most people who are here for a long time can agree that we aren't staying here cause of live simming or even the sim part in general. Also it was just mentioned but, it isn't like they said this is permanent and there is still going to be live simming in playoffs .-.

it’s about initial retention and you said it yourself, you enjoyed it. But whatever, if everyone is fine with it to run it like this it’s not like there’s any more reason to maybe reconsider or find a different solution for those 1-2 seasons. We’ll see what happens then ?

r0tzbua · 12-03-2023, 06:30 PM

12-03-2023, 05:39 PMhockeyfan Wrote: https://simulationhockey.com/showthread.php?tid=133022

Apple pied.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 12-03-2023, 08:29 PM

This is just my personal opinion as someone who never got into the live sim side of things and absolutely not meant to devalue the experiences of the people that did enjoy them in any way, but to me the live simming system that we have established over the last few years has always seemed like a pretty big waste of ressources.

We have put so much manpower, hard work and dedication from some of our most engaged members into a product that at the end of the day, not that many people watched. And I think the reason for that is two-fold. On the one hand the limitations that the engine puts on us are just too big to really overcome no matter how hard the people doing the sims work on it (and it was absolutely visible, even for me, how hard some of them tried).

On the other hand, even if we did manage to somehow implement a much more pleasant viewing experience, its draw would still be limited by the fact that the box-score culture is so ingrained in this league. At the end of they day, most people mostly care about their own player/team, so sitting through half an hour of largely irrelevant content to get to your team is just not worth the investment for a lot of people. At least not in the regular season and especially not, if you have access to an index shortly after the sim or to updates on Discord, that the few people who did actually watch the sim provided for everyone else. And that doesn't even take into account timezones, jobs and the myriad of other real life factors that will always make it hard for a lot of people to catch the sims, even if they do actually care.

BANACKOCK · 12-03-2023, 08:31 PM

Hi

BANACKOCK · 12-03-2023, 08:31 PM

12-03-2023, 08:29 PMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: This is just my personal opinion as someone who never got into the live sim side of things and absolutely not meant to devalue the experiences of the people that did enjoy them in any way, but to me the live simming system that we have established over the last few years has always seemed like a pretty big waste of ressources.

We have put so much manpower, hard work and dedication from some of our most engaged members into a product that at the end of the day, not that many people watched. And I think the reason for that is two-fold. On the one hand the limitations that the engine puts on us are just too big to really overcome no matter how hard the people doing the sims work on it (and it was absolutely visible, even for me, how hard some of them tried).

On the other hand, even if we did manage to somehow implement a much more pleasant viewing experience, its draw would still be limited by the fact that the box-score culture is so ingrained in this league. At the end of they day, most people mostly care about their own player/team, so sitting through half an hour of largely irrelevant content to get to your team is just not worth the investment for a lot of people. At least not in the regular season and especially not, if you have access to an index shortly after the sim or to updates on Discord, that the few people who did actually watch the sim provided for everyone else. And that doesn't even take into account timezones, jobs and the myriad of other real life factors that will always make it hard for a lot of people to catch the sims, even if they do actually care.

Yes

***Chevy*** · 12-04-2023, 10:24 AM

Thread team?

***Sburbine*** · 12-04-2023, 10:48 AM

#forcekaltosimagain

***Sburbine*** · 12-04-2023, 10:52 AM

12-03-2023, 06:24 PMBfine Wrote: I like this change as a temporary fix to get some more consistency within the sim team. It’s a tough trigger to pull but I’m glad someone did it.

I think the larger issue does come from OOTP not giving FHM a good viewing experience. They’ve done a good job with the engine PBE uses and it’s frustrating they won’t give something of similar quality to FHM. Hell I’d even take what we got in FHM 6 even though I understand why we can’t use that anymore. I’m sure HO is keeping eyes on what sims are out there and if any will allow us to do what we need to, it would just be nice if in the future FHM 10 or 11 gave us a working live sim experience.

10 was just released and it looks like they haven't changed much. Live sim looks similar but a bit smoother

Kalakar · 12-04-2023, 11:35 AM

12-04-2023, 10:48 AMSburbine Wrote: #forcekaltosimagain

My dms are open

Kyamprac · 12-04-2023, 12:30 PM

A little bummed there will be zero live sims as I do enjoy them, even if they are a little janky (honestly that's part of the entertainment value for me lol). But I also get the job of a simmer in leagues generally can be a tough one to recruit to/retain because it's kind of a pain for not much reward - sometimes the opposite for the simmer with complaints and all.

That said, if there's room for an interim solution while sim team figures things out, I did like the idea someome shared of maybe featuring 2-3 games a week in a "Hockey Night in Canada" type format for funsies. Something fun to look forward to in the sim and might even help generate some new PT prompts. Since it'd be an interim thing you could also use that night to experiment with new ideas throughout the season - see what goes well, what doesn't, etc. and decide what to use more permanently going forward.

Andy · 12-05-2023, 12:53 AM

I think this is also a great reset point because people will see what they miss and what they are looking for. I think things like the SSL with their live voiced things are intersting but what is covered in the post is true too that those games and a league our size makes it a problem. I am curious to see what comes out and what people want with going to a "rollback/ standard sim" Best of luck and I am excited to see what comes next

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