Quote:Originally posted by RomanesEuntDomus@Jul 8 2015, 04:59 PM
The league has changed so much since the previous expansions, teams are so much better and deeper now than they were back then so those situations aren't comparable. Nowadays you can have like twice as many TPE than the last placed teams in Season 5 or Season 10 and still are by far the worst team in the SHL. Hell look at the two teams with the fewest points right now, New England and West Kendall, they still have four or five 1000+ TPE players each! Back around the last expansion this would've made you the best team in the league, but in today's SHL you finish last with a roster like that. We could give expansion teams rosters full of 500-600 TPE-players (which I think most people would find too much) and they would still be absolutely horrible.
I'm glad Deener and I made it look easy to you ) But in reality it was the farthest thing from the truth. There was nothing easy about going 8 - 38 in the first season. I had to put in hours and hours into trades to make the team better. I know for a fact deener put in more hours than any GM into free agency to make his team better (partly the reason he is an SHL Agent now because hes good at it and likes to do it).
It is what made the S6 rivalry (for which you were a key part of) so intriguing. Two expansion GMs in the finals go all the way to game 7 overtime. Two drastically different GM models. One built team via draft and trades, the other via draft and free agency. Its not hard to see how Minnesota and LA were able to do it in the early seasons, however it was very hard to actually do it. Look through the trades I made in my ten seasons as GM. I believe that is my legacy as a GM. The trades I was able to make in order to build two championship winning teams.
This is something new expansion GMs will have to do. Build their own philosophy in an attempt to build a winning team.
Quote:Originally posted by Bün@Jul 8 2015, 07:15 PM
I'm glad Deener and I made it look easy to you ) But in reality it was the farthest thing from the truth. There was nothing easy about going 8 - 38 in the first season. I had to put in hours and hours into trades to make the team better. I know for a fact deener put in more hours than any GM into free agency to make his team better (partly the reason he is an SHL Agent now because hes good at it and likes to do it).
It is what made the S6 rivalry (for which you were a key part of) so intriguing. Two expansion GMs in the finals go all the way to game 7 overtime. Two drastically different GM models. One built team via draft and trades, the other via draft and free agency. Its not hard to see how Minnesota and LA were able to do in the early seasons. Look through the trades I made in my ten seasons as GM. I believe that is my legacy as a GM. The trades I was able to make in order to build two championship winning teams.
This is something new expansion GMs will have to do. Build their own philosophy in an attempt to build a winning team.
Have to agree here. The reason those two teams got so much better wasn't because the league was more even, it's because the two GM's busted their ass. Deener basically robbed the entire league blind in Free Agency and Boon build incredibly smart to get a team who was willing to work with him.
Both paid off in spades.
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Quote:Originally posted by RomanesEuntDomus@Jul 8 2015, 07:13 PM
The problem isn't that people are stuck on the 3rd line, it's that they are being stuck on the 4th line even if they aren't a rookie anymore and even the spots on the 4th line seem to be running out on some teams. Guys like you, Maxy, don't really represent the average member in that regard either, you are a guy who has been here a long time and has found his place in this community, newer members often don't have that (yet) and I can't blame any one of them who loses motivation after doing everything for three seasons and still being stuck on a team's 4th line.
Tbh, I don't take issue with being stuck on the last defensive pairing of whatever team drafts, me, my concern is that I won't even see that line for 3, 4 seasons. And it's the sentiment inside the Detroit LR as well with a couple of other rookies I've talked to.
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Quote:Originally posted by Schultzy@Jul 8 2015, 04:14 PM The way I see it, an expansion team really is a rebuilding franchise with no prospects. To me the only reason they need to be "helped" is because brand new teams shouldn't be any worse than the worst teams currently in the league. Those teams already have prospects. The expansion teams don't need to struggle for years and years just to become competitive. There's a balance between being coddled/being gifted a winning team for nothing, and being forced to struggle because that's what we did in the past.
They are partaking in a draft. What the fuck do you mena no prospects.
Quote:Originally posted by Bün@Jul 9 2015, 01:15 AM
I'm glad Deener and I made it look easy to you ) But in reality it was the farthest thing from the truth. There was nothing easy about going 8 - 38 in the first season. I had to put in hours and hours into trades to make the team better. I know for a fact deener put in more hours than any GM into free agency to make his team better (partly the reason he is an SHL Agent now because hes good at it and likes to do it).
It is what made the S6 rivalry (for which you were a key part of) so intriguing. Two expansion GMs in the finals go all the way to game 7 overtime. Two drastically different GM models. One built team via draft and trades, the other via draft and free agency. Its not hard to see how Minnesota and LA were able to do it in the early seasons, however it was very hard to actually do it. Look through the trades I made in my ten seasons as GM. I believe that is my legacy as a GM. The trades I was able to make in order to build two championship winning teams.
This is something new expansion GMs will have to do. Build their own philosophy in an attempt to build a winning team.
I'm not saying it was easy, I sure was close enough to you guys back then to know it wasn't, but you and Deener proved that it was possible and I believe something like that simple isn't possible anymore today unless someone masterfully walks the lines of tampering and brings in a bunch of friends with him as Free Agents.
Quote:Originally posted by Schultzy@Jul 8 2015, 07:14 PM The way I see it, an expansion team really is a rebuilding franchise with no prospects. To me the only reason they need to be "helped" is because brand new teams shouldn't be any worse than the worst teams currently in the league. Those teams already have prospects. The expansion teams don't need to struggle for years and years just to become competitive. There's a balance between being coddled/being gifted a winning team for nothing, and being forced to struggle because that's what we did in the past.
For the record, they shouldn't get a leg up on established franchises just because they are new, either. There are going to be at least four teams (6 with expansion) that will miss the playoffs, and there is no reason that the expansion teams should be playoff teams or right on the cusp right off the bat. Let the players become part of a new history, grow the team and the brand, and reap the rewards when they make the playoffs and hopefully win the cup.
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Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Jul 8 2015, 07:20 PM
For the record, they shouldn't get a leg up on established franchises just because they are new, either. There are going to be at least four teams (6 with expansion) that will miss the playoffs, and there is no reason that the expansion teams should be playoff teams or right on the cusp right off the bat. Let the players become part of a new history, grow the team and the brand, and reap the rewards when they make the playoffs and hopefully win the cup.
Thank you to My boys @Merica and @Ragnar for the lovely sigs!
Quote:Originally posted by Schultzy@Jul 9 2015, 01:14 AM The way I see it, an expansion team really is a rebuilding franchise with no prospects. To me the only reason they need to be "helped" is because brand new teams shouldn't be any worse than the worst teams currently in the league. Those teams already have prospects. The expansion teams don't need to struggle for years and years just to become competitive. There's a balance between being coddled/being gifted a winning team for nothing, and being forced to struggle because that's what we did in the past.
So are you gonna make sure this is actually gonna happen this time or will you puss out again ?
Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Jul 8 2015, 08:20 PM
For the record, they shouldn't get a leg up on established franchises just because they are new, either. There are going to be at least four teams (6 with expansion) that will miss the playoffs, and there is no reason that the expansion teams should be playoff teams or right on the cusp right off the bat. Let the players become part of a new history, grow the team and the brand, and reap the rewards when they make the playoffs and hopefully win the cup.
But starting them at where our current worst team is, isn't unfair to the rest of the league. And it's not a leg up on current teams. Its a start to get them caught up to the current teams.
Quote:Originally posted by Eggy216@Jul 9 2015, 01:18 AM
Tbh, I don't take issue with being stuck on the last defensive pairing of whatever team drafts, me, my concern is that I won't even see that line for 3, 4 seasons. And it's the sentiment inside the Detroit LR as well with a couple of other rookies I've talked to.
Listen to this man and the other rookies, we have another potential super draft coming up but no room for all these people to play and they know it, we really risk losing out on a ton of potential here!
Quote:Originally posted by Maxy@Jul 8 2015, 09:00 PM
And when I got to Manhattan we had Jorec, Nike, Myself, semi-active Spangs, inactive Dylan, semi-active DA and the last season of Ocho's goalie if I remember correctly. 2 seasons later we won a cup.
This actually helps my point, cause you know what an expansion won't have?
A Jorec (And his activity)
A Maxy (And your activity)
A semi-active Spangs (and his activity)
probably inactive Dylan (and his activity)
probably semi-active DA (and his activity)
Not forgetting, you got Merica (and his activity) because of the CoGM position which definitely helped improve you guys faster.
What I am saying obviously, is it's not so much players it's active players that need to be able to be selected otherwise the expansion teams will do rather horribly I think for TOO long.
Quote:Originally posted by Schultzy@Jul 8 2015, 04:23 PM
But starting them at where our current worst team is, isn't unfair to the rest of the league. And it's not a leg up on current teams. Its a start to get them caught up to the current teams.
It is most certainly unfair. They should be just a notch below NE and WKP.
Jesus The Mexican Way
) But in reality it was the farthest thing from the truth. There was nothing easy about going 8 - 38 in the first season. I had to put in hours and hours into trades to make the team better. I know for a fact deener put in more hours than any GM into free agency to make his team better (partly the reason he is an SHL Agent now because hes good at it and likes to do it). 
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