Quote:Originally posted by HabsFanFromOntario@Mar 2 2017, 12:06 AM
To be fair, your situation is very extreme due to the time you joined, shortening off-seasons is difficult as we do need to reach a certain quota of recruiting. You saw how small this past draft was, so the real solution is if we recruit more, I can set a draft date quicker.
As to missing the play-offs yes it sucks but you shouldn't have been drafted to Vancouver, Whalers blow end of story.
No, I'm kidding, but sometimes teams miss the play-offs, we do plan to have off-season events involving your players and being an active member you should be involved in the festivities happening then and there will be several articles about the SHL Draft coming up.
It sucks, but that's life, not everybody's a winner sometimes. This is something we plan to review and address if necessary.
I would like to point out that people who join during playoffs are more likely to be drafted high by weaker teams who will likely miss playoffs.
Not to mention your points ignore the idea that two team's will actively trade away LR members when they realize they are missing the playoffs. Which will decrease activity further.
Seems to be a very regressive policy for a development league.
Quote:Originally posted by JuniorHockey@Mar 2 2017, 02:08 AM
I would like to point out that people who join during playoffs are more likely to be drafted high by weaker teams who will likely miss playoffs.
Not to mention your points ignore the idea that two team's will actively trade away LR members when they realize they are missing the playoffs. Which will decrease activity further.
Seems to be a very regressive policy for a development league.
But i'm going to stop talking about it now.
Did your team trade you?
You're also aware your team can choose to leave those players in the LR as well as have veterans in there for discussion. You're talking about three maybe four players this season?
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. ... There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.”
Quote:Originally posted by HabsFanFromOntario@Mar 2 2017, 12:06 AM
To be fair, your situation is very extreme due to the time you joined, shortening off-seasons is difficult as we do need to reach a certain quota of recruiting. You saw how small this past draft was, so the real solution is if we recruit more, I can set a draft date quicker.
As to missing the play-offs yes it sucks but you shouldn't have been drafted to Vancouver, Whalers blow end of story.
No, I'm kidding, but sometimes teams miss the play-offs, we do plan to have off-season events involving your players and being an active member you should be involved in the festivities happening then and there will be several articles about the SHL Draft coming up.
It sucks, but that's life, not everybody's a winner sometimes. This is something we plan to review and address if necessary.
Having everyone make the playoffs doesn't mean "everyone is a winner."
Come on, that's just a bad assertion.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Mar 2 2017, 12:15 PM
Having everyone make the playoffs doesn't mean "everyone is a winner."
Come on, that's just a bad assertion.
Exactly. This isn't about everyone being a winner and about giving people participation trophies, it is about at least giving everyone a chance to play.
The SMJHL HO likes to talk about how people/teams should toughen up and become more competitive instead of complaining about not making the playoffs, but that's so much easier said than done. You are basically saying "If you miss the playoffs then it's your own damn fault, so why should we help you?". While that might be true for the GMs (and even they might be in this through no fault of their own, as it was their predecessor who shit the bed), it certainly isn't true for the players. How is it their fault if they work hard all season and do all TPE opportunities but they just happen to be drafted by a bottom-feeder whose situation looks completely hopeless during mid-season already.
What do you expect players on these teams to do? They either stay put and then are stuck in a shitty situation like the one JuniorHockey describes, or they ask for a trade which fucks an already bad team and the few active players on it even more.
How are people supposed to stay motivated through that, when it's not just their first weeks, but months in the league that feel like that? The argument I usually hear against this is "When someone leaves just because their team is bad for a little bit then they wouldn't have become a good member anyway" and I strongly disagree with that. We aren't talking about a short rough patch of a week or two, we are talking about months. A veteran member might be able to sit through that because he knows what else this league has to offer, but a new member might not. From him perspective this isn't just a rough patch, for him the SHL was never a fun experience in the first place. All he sees is a dead locker room and no meaningful sim time for his player for the majority of his time here.
It's also a vicious cycle for the teams, as for the GM it makes sense to trade some of his established players away for picks, making the locker room even more dead and the experience even less fun for those that remain. In the long run, this might just as well work, maybe in two or three season the GM will have turned the ship around and his team might be a contender again. But during these two or three seasons, we will have given people on this team a rather miserable experience and we will likely have lost members in the process. Due to the cyclical nature of the SMJHL, the players who stuck with the team through these tough times likely won't even be around anymore to reap the benefits either. If they haven't gone inactive at this point then they will likely have moved up to the SHL, so a whole new generation of players will be there to enjoy the successful years.
Which brings me back to my initial point: It's very random and largely based on luck whether you end up on a good team or a bad team. Even if you yourself work hard and get to 350 TPE as quickly as possible, it won't nearly be enough to turn your team around. The least we can do is give those people that had bad luck and ended up on a shitty team a fighting chance, so that they still enjoy the season and have the playoffs to look forward to. The argument was that the league will be more competitive and therefore more fun if not everyone makes the playoffs, but at this point it doesn't look like this is the case. We don't have tight playoff races, instead we have teams who already are out of the playoff picture midway through the season and are inclined to throw in the towel. For the teams in the playoffs this change hasn't made things any more fun or meaningful, it has just made it more miserable for those that don't make it.
Quote:Originally posted by JKortesi81@Mar 2 2017, 12:34 AM Once again, the single most ridiculous thing on this site is that they made a team from each SMJHL conference miss the playoffs. <a href='index.php?showuser=2520' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-3'>JuniorHockey</a> 's OP shows EXACTLY why its counter-productive. Sure, recreates don't give a fuck about juniors sometimes, but who cares? The SMJHL is more for the new comers anyway. We want this to be fun, and have them get hooked on the site. All this does draw interest away from newbies and pushes them away. That's stupid.
And what are the ridiculous reasons again for this? "OMGZ NOT EVR1 SHUD MAKE PLAYOFZ".? Who the fuck cares? Its way more fun that way. Again, the SMJHL is for getting people's TPE up, and getting them to enjoy the site. Its for introducing newcomers to how fun this can be, so that way players don't just leap to the SHL, people waste draft picks on them there, and then they ghost. Its designed to be the place where people decide if the SHL is for them or not. Having them wait, in this case, almost 80 days, is bananas. I know that he was the EXTREME, but its still the same even if he joined 20 days later.
Yeah, okay, lets use this season as an example. Sure, maybe Vancouver isn't on the level of Kelowna, and "they'll probably just get beat anyway". But at least these new guys, like JH, get to experience some playoff fun. And if they actually beat Kelowna? That's awesome, and unexpected, and people will be talking about it. Its a good thing. The only people that might be upset is Kelowna, but fuck them they win too much :lol:.
Jokes aside, things like the fantasy series and everything is fun, but it can't replace the playoffs. We should absolutely go back to all teams make the playoffs.
And as for the recruiting, we should be recruiting people NOW for next season. Or at least as soon as the trade deadline hits, so they can't sign as FAs. We have a recruiting team (allegedly), so lets get on it this weekend, after the Trade deadline. The only reason we got to the 26 players we had in last season's draft is because i put something on /r/fantasyhockey like 4 days before the draft and a bunch of people showed up. (Which was frowned upon, but i didn't know better, and hey, it was better than having the 12 players we had.) If the recruiting team is too busy to recruit, HIRE MORE PEOPLE. there's a bunch of rookies and sophomores that are looking for jobs. Recruiting is a good job for them.
And while we're on everything, i'm throwing it out there than we need more PGS graders, because Marko bailed and <a href='index.php?showuser=2273' rel='nofollow' alt='profile link' class='user-tagged mgroup-17'>bk1689</a> can't keep up, so lets get two new people some jobs there.
Even if all the teams made the playoffs, the last place teams are notable worse - they'd last what, 4, 5 games? That's like 2 extra days, which is not the problem if the season to off-season ratio is so extreme.
Not to mention, the JH is also counting 2 off-seasons against one season, of course the numbers are going to be skewed on way.
Quote:Originally posted by Symmetrik@Mar 2 2017, 08:17 AM
Even if all the teams made the playoffs, the last place teams are notable worse - they'd last what, 4, 5 games? That's like 2 extra days, which is not the problem if the season to off-season ratio is so extreme.
Not to mention, the JH is also counting 2 off-seasons against one season, of course the numbers are going to be skewed on way.
Bottom seeded teams have won the Four Star Cup before. Bottom seeded teams have had competitive series.
Besides, giving all newcomers the playoff experience could shift someone from being an inactive or semi-active to a full active player. I loved the playoff experience when I started. We even lost to the lowest seed in our conference.
Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)* *All-Time Leader Among All Skaters Player Profile | Update Thread
Quote:Originally posted by Symmetrik@Mar 2 2017, 02:17 PM
Even if all the teams made the playoffs, the last place teams are notable worse - they'd last what, 4, 5 games? That's like 2 extra days, which is not the problem if the season to off-season ratio is so extreme.
Not to mention, the JH is also counting 2 off-seasons against one season, of course the numbers are going to be skewed on way.
Not necessarily. Bottom-feeders have had great competitive series and quite frequently go on cinderella runs, in fact that was one of the reason why the HO changed this system in the first place. They felt that it was "unfair" to the teams that did well in the regular season to give the bottom feeders a chance at an upset.
Also, even if you do get swept in the first round, the mere fact that you make the playoffs keeps people excited throughout the regular season because they have something to look forward to. That's very different than a team whose season is basically over after 25 games, at which point people mentally check out and the GMs might go on a firesale. So this isn't merely about 2 or 3 extra days in the playoffs, but also about ~14 days of regular season hockey.
Quote:Originally posted by ArGarBarGar@Mar 2 2017, 08:31 AM
Bottom seeded teams have won the Four Star Cup before. Bottom seeded teams have had competitive series.
Besides, giving all newcomers the playoff experience could shift someone from being an inactive or semi-active to a full active player. I loved the playoff experience when I started. We even lost to the lowest seed in our conference.
Same, Argar. RIP S30 Falcons, fack you Halifax (who won the Cup that season)
My opinion is utterly worthless, but here it is all the same.
When the playoff format change was announced, I was one of the few in favor of it because I found the SMJHL regular season incredibly dull beyond your rookie season. If you are capped, your player isn't growing, and the wins and losses didn't matter until playoffs. To me, the bigger issue was the interminable off season length which exacerbated the wait for teams that missed playoffs or suffered early exits.
With that said, can't say I'm blown away with it in practice. Beyond the issues highlighted in OP, the six-team playoff felt pretty wonky, especially when the first round was over in five games for both conferences and we went lightning round on the conference finals to avoid sitting around for a weekend - which only put us waiting a week on the SHL finals and crunched the people churning out the junior play by plays, to the tune of three ECF games in one day. That was obviously a fluke that couldn't have been predicted, but it's certainly.more likely to happen with fewer playoff match ups.
Furthermore, I can't honestly say it's added as much to the regular season as I've hoped. Instead, it's only made things worse for the bottom teams, knowing they have nothing to play for. You can't even sell them on "sticking out a rebuild, the end result will be worth it" because the end result will likely come after they are called up - assuming they stay active - or after you've traded them to aid said rebuild.
Yes, teams miss the SHL playoffs, and users should be aware that can and does happen. But there's little to gain IMO from making them miss theveryone junior playoffs from what I've seen so far, and I went in with a very open mind.
Also, the issues going on with the PGS are concerning as well. It almost seems like the smjhl is second fiddle to the shl, and that shouldnt be the case if you want to retain rookies well into their shl careers.
Quote:Originally posted by Symmetrik@Mar 2 2017, 08:17 AM
Even if all the teams made the playoffs, the last place teams are notable worse - they'd last what, 4, 5 games? That's like 2 extra days, which is not the problem if the season to off-season ratio is so extreme.
Not to mention, the JH is also counting 2 off-seasons against one season, of course the numbers are going to be skewed on way.
Others already made the points about the fact that upsets happen much more regularly than people think they do. It's not like 8 seeds beating 1 seeds in the NHL playoffs is unheard of.
And even with your scenario, That's still a few extra days! There's playoff excitement involved. People get to get hyped and experience the playoffs. Because that's another point of juniors: giving the experience. Making people want to feel that feeling the SHL, so they stick around.
I understand he's including 2 offseasons, but its still a bunch of down time. The offseason is the problem, of course. Foolishly eliminating teams from the playoffs isn't helping.
Quote:Originally posted by ztevans@Mar 2 2017, 09:44 AM
Same, Argar. RIP S30 Falcons, fack you Halifax (who won the Cup that season)
My opinion is utterly worthless, but here it is all the same.
When the playoff format change was announced, I was one of the few in favor of it because I found the SMJHL regular season incredibly dull beyond your rookie season. If you are capped, your player isn't growing, and the wins and losses didn't matter until playoffs. To me, the bigger issue was the interminable off season length which exacerbated the wait for teams that missed playoffs or suffered early exits.
With that said, can't say I'm blown away with it in practice. Beyond the issues highlighted in OP, the six-team playoff felt pretty wonky, especially when the first round was over in five games for both conferences and we went lightning round on the conference finals to avoid sitting around for a weekend - which only put us waiting a week on the SHL finals and crunched the people churning out the junior play by plays, to the tune of three ECF games in one day. That was obviously a fluke that couldn't have been predicted, but it's certainly.more likely to happen with fewer playoff match ups.
Furthermore, I can't honestly say it's added as much to the regular season as I've hoped. Instead, it's only made things worse for the bottom teams, knowing they have nothing to play for. You can't even sell them on "sticking out a rebuild, the end result will be worth it" because the end result will likely come after they are called up - assuming they stay active - or after you've traded them to aid said rebuild.
Yes, teams miss the SHL playoffs, and users should be aware that can and does happen. But there's little to gain IMO from making them miss theveryone junior playoffs from what I've seen so far, and I went in with a very open mind.
I definitely think the long offseason is the bigger problem here and that we need to start recruitment early and match the SHL's new pace, but as someone who saw no problem with trying the new playoff format, I'm not a huge fan of the results so far. Vancouver's fire sale isn't very fun for me to even watch; I can't imagine being a new user on the team for it.
I like the playoff format as is. It has made the season interesting, and sparked more excitement around the trade deadline. Two things I consider:
1) if your team morale is low, then pick it up. Montreal had an up and down season in s32 but we were a tight bunch who kept each other in good spirits. That's how teams should function. You shouldn't need success to be happy.
2) if your experience is based entirely on sim results then you're really not going to have a good time for very long here.
Shorten the offseason at least though. Start recruiting earlier.
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