08-21-2018, 10:18 AMTML99 Wrote: Maybe I'm the only one but I actually enjoy going back and looking at my teammates PTs especially as a junior Gm. I often read them and definitely enjoy seeing all the graphics people make
I mean even guys in the LR will share their PTs because they think its funny or it was about the team and the want the guys to read them.
Out of curiosity what was the reason for this change? was their an issue that we are trying to correct?
" We feel by entering into the agreement with them that it will help members of both leagues join the SHL without the fear of having to do a ton of PTs between each league weekly."
Seriously dont join multiple leagues if you cant mage the work load... I'm so confused by this maybe its just my mentality "why do something if you're not going to 100% commit to it" I have joined multiple leagues over the years and gone inactive in almost all of them because I couldn't mange the word load to be good player. The solutions shouldn't be make it easier to be in more leagues by half assing the workload over 3 different leagues... I'm all for helping other leagues grow but not like this.
"We also feel it will help bring back members who went inactive here because of the large workload juggling so many leagues. "
This makes no sense if you couldn't juggle the work load before why are you joining more leagues to still do a PT you never did in the first place? Not like just doing the PT is going to make you any good you still need to train, write media, buy equipment guys aren't just magically going to start doing this because they can claim a PT from another league they had no time for in the first place...
Overall id say there are some very good points being tossed around in here, nothing wrong with a good debate you're never going to get everyone to agree with something especially on the internet. Given my points I still believe in giving this a try like I stated before, I think its just important to get all thoughts and concerns out now so we can address them after a trial run.
08-21-2018, 08:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead I just get to watch people claim stuff for free that I have to work for quite hard.
Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?
SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.
08-21-2018, 09:54 AMjRuutu Wrote: Since I got you here, answer me this: lets say I´m in HO and I got an idea, I want to write the PT´s in Finnish. For some reason that gets support and it´s even put in place, you can now write the PT´s in Finnish if you want. Don´t have to, but you can. It´s promoted as a way to bring in users from Finland, big hockey market and all that. At the same time users who cant speak Finnish are asking if that is a good idea, why can Finnish users write in their native language, but then users from Germany, France etc still have to write in English? Would it be safe to suggest that since I´m from Finland, me suggesting idea like that has very little to do with me wanting to actually bring Finnish users in, but mostly just me trying to make my day to day life as easy as possible by just writing in Finnish and not in English that takes longer?
If the crutch of your point is on another league denying you the ability to do your PT's in whatever language you want (Finnish), I don't think any league in the entire world would get angry at you and prevent you from typing your PT's in finnish providing that you can translate them when asked by whatever PPT team is grading them for clarity.
If the SHL did allow you to do your PT's in Finnish, (Great I can write mine in Irish now) it wouldn't matter if the NSFL or PBE didn't allow the PT's in finnish. You would literally just link you doing the PT here there in this affiliation and that's in the off chance that for some reason we would be finnish language haters???
My point is that by the looks of it, the HO in SHL has users who are also in other leagues and are perhaps more interested about the other leagues, so they suggested idea like this and try promote it as a tool to help all the leagues, when in reality they are just trying to improve the league they are more interested in.
I think if you believe that the league you hold so highly in your eyes is not acting in it's own best interest/mutual interest to help the site grow then that's not a answer I have for you.
I'd like to think the people in HO here that I know of (TDZ and Jkortesi) are fully committed to the site.
I´m not saying the HO and it´s members are just sitting there and don´t put effort it, but at the same time it´s hard not to think about conflict of interest when you have members in the SHL HO who are also part of other leagues.
08-21-2018, 08:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead I just get to watch people claim stuff for free that I have to work for quite hard.
Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?
SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.
It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
08-21-2018, 09:54 AMjRuutu Wrote: Since I got you here, answer me this: lets say I´m in HO and I got an idea, I want to write the PT´s in Finnish. For some reason that gets support and it´s even put in place, you can now write the PT´s in Finnish if you want. Don´t have to, but you can. It´s promoted as a way to bring in users from Finland, big hockey market and all that. At the same time users who cant speak Finnish are asking if that is a good idea, why can Finnish users write in their native language, but then users from Germany, France etc still have to write in English? Would it be safe to suggest that since I´m from Finland, me suggesting idea like that has very little to do with me wanting to actually bring Finnish users in, but mostly just me trying to make my day to day life as easy as possible by just writing in Finnish and not in English that takes longer?
If the crutch of your point is on another league denying you the ability to do your PT's in whatever language you want (Finnish), I don't think any league in the entire world would get angry at you and prevent you from typing your PT's in finnish providing that you can translate them when asked by whatever PPT team is grading them for clarity.
If the SHL did allow you to do your PT's in Finnish, (Great I can write mine in Irish now) it wouldn't matter if the NSFL or PBE didn't allow the PT's in finnish. You would literally just link you doing the PT here there in this affiliation and that's in the off chance that for some reason we would be finnish language haters???
My point is that by the looks of it, the HO in SHL has users who are also in other leagues and are perhaps more interested about the other leagues, so they suggested idea like this and try promote it as a tool to help all the leagues, when in reality they are just trying to improve the league they are more interested in.
I think if you believe that the league you hold so highly in your eyes is not acting in it's own best interest/mutual interest to help the site grow then that's not a answer I have for you.
I'd like to think the people in HO here that I know of (TDZ and Jkortesi) are fully committed to the site.
I´m not saying the HO and it´s members are just sitting there and don´t put effort it, but at the same time it´s hard not to think about conflict of interest when you have members in the SHL HO who are also part of other leagues.
Chill buddy, I don't think anyone in the HO (or elsewhere) is actively working to make this league weaker compared to others. They just think this is a beneficial change (and I can see why) and we don't.
08-21-2018, 10:08 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
They are shorter here in word requirement than in PBE and NSFL
Yeet sounds good to me
They won't allow SHL PT's to count on their site if I understood.
08-21-2018, 10:01 AMWhite Cornerback Wrote: If the crutch of your point is on another league denying you the ability to do your PT's in whatever language you want (Finnish), I don't think any league in the entire world would get angry at you and prevent you from typing your PT's in finnish providing that you can translate them when asked by whatever PPT team is grading them for clarity.
If the SHL did allow you to do your PT's in Finnish, (Great I can write mine in Irish now) it wouldn't matter if the NSFL or PBE didn't allow the PT's in finnish. You would literally just link you doing the PT here there in this affiliation and that's in the off chance that for some reason we would be finnish language haters???
My point is that by the looks of it, the HO in SHL has users who are also in other leagues and are perhaps more interested about the other leagues, so they suggested idea like this and try promote it as a tool to help all the leagues, when in reality they are just trying to improve the league they are more interested in.
I think if you believe that the league you hold so highly in your eyes is not acting in it's own best interest/mutual interest to help the site grow then that's not a answer I have for you.
I'd like to think the people in HO here that I know of (TDZ and Jkortesi) are fully committed to the site.
I´m not saying the HO and it´s members are just sitting there and don´t put effort it, but at the same time it´s hard not to think about conflict of interest when you have members in the SHL HO who are also part of other leagues.
Chill buddy, I don't think anyone in the HO (or elsewhere) is actively working to make this league weaker compared to others. They just think this is a beneficial change (and I can see why) and we don't.
Still, not a good look when users like that are making decisions that effects SHL and the leagues they are also part of.
08-21-2018, 09:46 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: And come on now Zach, can you be a little less dramatic and hyperbolic please, this has been a good factual discussion so far and I'd like to keep it that way. I just checked those announcement threads in these other leagues that you claimed are full of people who are super excited and happy about this change, but all I found were a handful of one-liners and like 7 posts overall in each thread, no complex thoughts or in-depth discussions on the matter. If anything, it feels like this thread right here is the one were people are actually looking into this and trying to weigh the pro and cons and maybe you should accept that instead of trying to shut the other side up with your "could someone please think of the children/other leagues feelings" rhetoric, that's just a dick move.
Go back and read my original post. I didn't say anything about those threads overflowing with people celebrating. I said people expressed interest in coming over here. That is factual. If anyone is using rhetoric here to exaggerate my claim and silence opposition with 700 word dissertations, it's you, friend.
I just love how putting some thought into your posts and trying to lay out your arguments is offensive to so many people. This "lol long post" meme is really quite sad for everyone who uses it.
For some context in this regard, I've always been taught as a writer who has somehow tricked people to occasionally pay me for said writing is that it's best to say as much as possible in as few words as possible, to make yourself as accessible as possible to a wider audience. There's probably something to be said for different cultures, academic environments, etc, which would be a better (And maybe even fascinating) conversation for PMs.
08-21-2018, 08:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead I just get to watch people claim stuff for free that I have to work for quite hard.
Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?
SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.
It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
You understand that the whole argumentation was about 'brining people from NSFL/PBE here' and that's the reason the argumentation here is around that? This affiliation pretty much works three ways. You can be in any league and use any PT of any league you want to use them in the others. This is actually a reason we could see more people coming here doing the PTs as you dont have to write as much as on the other leagues.
08-21-2018, 10:32 AM(This post was last modified: 08-21-2018, 10:32 AM by Eggy216.)
08-21-2018, 10:27 AMjRuutu Wrote: Still, not a good look when users like that are making decisions that effects SHL and the leagues they are also part of.
One league guy over here. Like I've said elsewhere, no plans to join either of the leagues we've affiliated with here either. I literally get nothing out of this myself.
08-21-2018, 08:39 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: Instead I just get to watch people claim stuff for free that I have to work for quite hard.
Claim stuff for free? How do you figure that?
SHL has the easiest PTs of the three leagues involved here, if someone is linking a PT from another league they worked harder for that TPE than if they just did it here.
It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
You understand that the whole argumentation was about 'brining people from NSFL/PBE here' and that's the reason the argumentation here is around that? This affiliation pretty much works three ways. You can be in any league and use any PT of any league you want to use them in the others. This is actually a reason we could see more people coming here doing the PTs as you dont have to write as much as on the other leagues.
08-21-2018, 10:23 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: It was made pretty clear by multiple people that one of the goals is to bring in people who are currently active in the NSFL/PBE, but not here. No whether you believe that would work or not is actually point for debate, but there is a very clear intention here to bring in people who claim stuff from NSFL/PBE for SHL purposes.
Yes. I'm not seeing how you figure that's "claim[ing] stuff for free." If they're claiming it that means they wrote 200 words about their football player, 200 words about their baseball player, or 150 words about their hockey player. They're still doing the PT.
08-21-2018, 10:18 AMTML99 Wrote: Maybe I'm the only one but I actually enjoy going back and looking at my teammates PTs especially as a junior Gm. I often read them and definitely enjoy seeing all the graphics people make
I mean even guys in the LR will share their PTs because they think its funny or it was about the team and the want the guys to read them.
Out of curiosity what was the reason for this change? was their an issue that we are trying to correct?
" We feel by entering into the agreement with them that it will help members of both leagues join the SHL without the fear of having to do a ton of PTs between each league weekly."
Seriously dont join multiple leagues if you cant mage the work load... I'm so confused by this maybe its just my mentality "why do something if you're not going to 100% commit to it" I have joined multiple leagues over the years and gone inactive in almost all of them because I couldn't mange the word load to be good player. The solutions shouldn't be make it easier to be in more leagues by half assing the workload over 3 different leagues... I'm all for helping other leagues grow but not like this.
"We also feel it will help bring back members who went inactive here because of the large workload juggling so many leagues. "
This makes no sense if you couldn't juggle the work load before why are you joining more leagues to still do a PT you never did in the first place? Not like just doing the PT is going to make you any good you still need to train, write media, buy equipment guys aren't just magically going to start doing this because they can claim a PT from another league they had no time for in the first place...
Overall id say there are some very good points being tossed around in here, nothing wrong with a good debate you're never going to get everyone to agree with something especially on the internet. Given my points I still believe in giving this a try like I stated before, I think its just important to get all thoughts and concerns out now so we can address them after a trial run.
Couldn't agree more, if you don't have time for more leagues then don't join more leagues. What's the problem with only being in one or two leagues if that's all the time you wanna committ, but in those leagues you actually contribute? If anything, joining more leagues than you can handle actually makes people burn out even quicker to the point where they might end up leaving sim leagues altogether. Like, as someone who has been here for a while, I have figured out that for my one personal schedule I can do about 1 "serious" (SHL, old-style VHL) and 2 casual leagues, or maybe 2 serious ones and no casual. Everything beyond that is just too much for me if I don't wanna end up severely dropping in activity somewhere. So I won't join any more leagues than that no matter what the incentives are and if I did, I certainly wouldn't end up being a contributing member in my new leagues, but just someone who claims the free stuff and rarely participates in any kind of discussion. And I'm sure most other people have similar limits, maybe not as clearly defined, but there only are so many leagues we can handle at once - not necessarily because of PTs, but also because of the small scale stuff, because of the plethora of Discord channels that come with it, and so on...
And yeah PTs can actually be fun, at least for the newer members and juniors in general, who get to see all this stuff for the first time. Most will grow tired of it eventually, but at least at the beginning they are actually a pretty fun aspect of the league for people who haven't experienced them yet. I for one am actually quite pleasantly surprised by the PTs I had to do so far this season. I hadn't done any with my previous player for quite a while and coming back to them now has actually been quite fun and not so work-intensive, and I have also enjoyed reading some from my new teammates, especially the rookies. I'd expect this to wear off rather quickly as the grind continues, but at least for a while and when starting out, PTs are usually not just a tedious chore but something that helps people settle into the community.
08-21-2018, 10:08 AMWannabeFinn Wrote: Are the PT’s across SHL/NSFL/PBE all equal in terms of word count/level of creativity required? I could see there being an issue if people just started doing the PT’s in the easiest league, but otherwise it seems okay to me
They are shorter here in word requirement than in PBE and NSFL
Yeet sounds good to me
They won't allow SHL PT's to count on their site if I understood.
What? That's the whole point. The PTs count both ways!
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