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King · 09-14-2018, 03:22 PM

I was looking at participation in activity checks as a measure of the number of people actively engaged in the SHL.

This is the # of people who have did the weekly AC from AC 1 to AC 227

Here is a rolling average, over the previous twelve weeks of each week to help stabilize the data to better see trends.

It looks like we've been growing linearly over the last 97 weeks (roughly 2 years) which we gained on average 25 users.

That's a rate of 1 person joining and sticking per month.

Which seems crazy to me, considering how many new actives we bring in each season. I think we have the filling a bathtub with a hole in it type thing going on. Where our rate of increase is solid, but it's only slightly higher than our rate of decrease.

Also it might be worth mentioning that we've gotten to around 220 members before, then dropped, got back up to that again, and then dropped, and only recently been able to just pass it.

So wanted to get peoples thoughts on why the growing of the league has sort of plateud, and what is with the steady flow of people out of the league.

p.s. I know this isn't an exact measure by any stretch, but I think it's the most reflective data we have access to, unless someone can think of another.

***WannabeFinn*** · 09-14-2018, 03:28 PM

Rosters across the league (particularly SMJHL) hit a peak following reddit drafts and it’s hard to retain new members when there really aren’t any roster spots or ice time to go around

Expansion is the only way to add more roster spots/ice time but we aren’t able to support a 10 team smjhl during the lows that come between reddit drafts

DannyMethane · 09-14-2018, 03:31 PM

09-14-2018, 03:28 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Rosters across the league (particularly SMJHL) hit a peak following reddit drafts and it’s hard to retain new members when there really aren’t any roster spots or ice time to go around

Expansion is the only way to add more roster spots/ice time but we aren’t able to support a 10 team smjhl during the lows that come between reddit drafts

Why not? You could fill the third and fourth line with 155 bots.

DannyMethane · 09-14-2018, 03:34 PM

I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community. For every Pris and TML there's two Logan's or Formx's. Lots of inside jokes and chirps that might drive some people away. Furthermore, the progression can seem slow for people who just want to jump in and have fun (I have an idea for an Unlimited League that I'll need to explore further before bringing anything else to light), and a lot of people just can't or won't keep up with the weekly demands that the PT's and earning money commands.

***WannabeFinn*** · 09-14-2018, 03:35 PM

09-14-2018, 03:31 PMDannyMethane Wrote:
09-14-2018, 03:28 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Rosters across the league (particularly SMJHL) hit a peak following reddit drafts and it’s hard to retain new members when there really aren’t any roster spots or ice time to go around

Expansion is the only way to add more roster spots/ice time but we aren’t able to support a 10 team smjhl during the lows that come between reddit drafts

Why not? You could fill the third and fourth line with 155 bots.

Well, I was making that point under the presumption that we don’t just start adding bots to our lineups (although we have plenty of low TPE IFAs whom essentially function as bots).

I guess the answer to your question comes down to making SMJHL locker rooms smaller, but in the discord era of the SHL the alumni bases of each team have become significantly more involved.

Dangles13 · 09-14-2018, 03:37 PM

SHL sucks, mystery solved.

I think the biggest thing is that this isn't for everyone. People sign up and get bored.

***WannabeFinn*** · 09-14-2018, 03:38 PM

09-14-2018, 03:34 PMDannyMethane Wrote: I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community. For every Pris and TML there's two Logan's or Formx's. Lots of inside jokes and chirps that might drive some people away. Furthermore, the progression can seem slow for people who just want to jump in and have fun (I have an idea for an Unlimited League that I'll need to explore further before bringing anything else to light), and a lot of people just can't or won't keep up with the weekly demands that the PT's and earning money commands.

Now that’s just exaggeration. There’s not two genuinely toxic users for every good user on this site. The users who just so happen to be toxic are an extremely vocal minority. Not to say that they don’t drive some people away, but we aren’t literally infested with Logans lol

ArGarBarGar · 09-14-2018, 03:38 PM

09-14-2018, 03:34 PMDannyMethane Wrote: I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community. For every Pris and TML there's two Logan's or Formx's. Lots of inside jokes and chirps that might drive some people away. Furthermore, the progression can seem slow for people who just want to jump in and have fun (I have an idea for an Unlimited League that I'll need to explore further before bringing anything else to light), and a lot of people just can't or won't keep up with the weekly demands that the PT's and earning money commands.

Nobody is really immune so much as the rules being so casual that those who are more "edgy" are given a lot of leniency to make comments.

As far as the league plateauing, I think there is always going to be a cap for something like this. It is based around looking at numbers and requires a decent amount of work to actually be good, so it is going to be a turn off for a lot of people in general.

I don't think we necessarily have to keep growing. As long as we have a solid community and people who want to contribute to the league, that should be fine.

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***39alaska39*** · 09-14-2018, 03:39 PM

TD’s don’t help when we’re debating on the acceptableness of using slurs against other members of the site. Plus the site can bring kinda confusing when you’re brand new and never really been part of a forum based thing before. I know @caltroit_red_flames mentioned it on Luke’s pod yesterday, and I felt that way when I first arrived too.

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DannyMethane · 09-14-2018, 04:00 PM

09-14-2018, 03:38 PMWannabeFinn Wrote:
09-14-2018, 03:34 PMDannyMethane Wrote: I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community. For every Pris and TML there's two Logan's or Formx's. Lots of inside jokes and chirps that might drive some people away. Furthermore, the progression can seem slow for people who just want to jump in and have fun (I have an idea for an Unlimited League that I'll need to explore further before bringing anything else to light), and a lot of people just can't or won't keep up with the weekly demands that the PT's and earning money commands.
Now that’s just exaggeration. There’s not two genuinely toxic users for every good user on this site. The users who just so happen to be toxic are an extremely vocal minority. Not to say that they don’t drive some people away, but we aren’t literally infested with Logans lol

Nah, what I meant was that for every non-toxic vocal member, there're twov vocal toxic ones. The key being vocal ones. Simply because toxic people seek out the spotlight, so it seems like there's way more toxic people than there actually are.

King · 09-14-2018, 04:39 PM

09-14-2018, 03:28 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Rosters across the league (particularly SMJHL) hit a peak following reddit drafts and it’s hard to retain new members when there really aren’t any roster spots or ice time to go around

Expansion is the only way to add more roster spots/ice time but we aren’t able to support a 10 team smjhl during the lows that come between reddit drafts

One way to deal with it, could just be to ride the low cause the high seems worth it. If it means keeping more people long term in the SHL.

Also most people want to be top six forwards, top four defensemen or starting goalies. (I only said most cause @NH4JP exists) It's harder for some to stay engaged when they're active but not playing in those roles. If the league has 225 actives, and each team has 11 desirable spots. That would mean the league would need 21 teams in total. Which is pretty much what we currently have (22). Might just be chance, but that could also imply the league sort of currently has an internal cap of 242 actives if everyone was evenly distributed. Since not everyone is evenly distributed our internal cap is something lower than this.

09-14-2018, 03:39 PM39alaska39 Wrote: Plus the site can bring kinda confusing when you’re brand new and never really been part of a forum based thing before. I know @caltroit_red_flames mentioned it on Luke’s pod yesterday, and I felt that way when I first arrived too.

I definitely think this is still an issue, and what that doesn't need to be true. I think the league forums can still be reorganized and tidied up a lot. And the introduction can be cleaned up.

When I first joined there was too many "Everything you need to know is here" type things. Would be nice to actually have only on new players go to. Also there's some subforums which are never used, which could be reorganized.

09-14-2018, 03:34 PMDannyMethane Wrote: I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community

While I don't think it's that big an issue. Has anyone thought of just removing the TD? Like if its a microphone for negativity, cut the microphone.

09-14-2018, 03:38 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: As far as the league plateauing, I think there is always going to be a cap for something like this. It is based around looking at numbers and requires a decent amount of work to actually be good, so it is going to be a turn off for a lot of people in general.

I agree, I'm partialy curious where the cap comes from. Cause as new people join, new people come who are willing to do the work. But I also agree there isn't some need for the league to have to grow.

***caltroit_red_flames*** · 09-14-2018, 04:59 PM

09-14-2018, 03:31 PMDannyMethane Wrote:
09-14-2018, 03:28 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Rosters across the league (particularly SMJHL) hit a peak following reddit drafts and it’s hard to retain new members when there really aren’t any roster spots or ice time to go around

Expansion is the only way to add more roster spots/ice time but we aren’t able to support a 10 team smjhl during the lows that come between reddit drafts

Why not? You could fill the third and fourth line with 155 bots.

This. NSFL and PBE do it. Why not us?

Another option is to allow retired players or unretired players that are below 350 TPE be used on the roster when spots need to be filled.

DeletedAtUserRequest · 09-14-2018, 05:08 PM

09-14-2018, 03:38 PMArGarBarGar Wrote:
09-14-2018, 03:34 PMDannyMethane Wrote: I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community. For every Pris and TML there's two Logan's or Formx's. Lots of inside jokes and chirps that might drive some people away. Furthermore, the progression can seem slow for people who just want to jump in and have fun (I have an idea for an Unlimited League that I'll need to explore further before bringing anything else to light), and a lot of people just can't or won't keep up with the weekly demands that the PT's and earning money commands.

Nobody is really immune so much as the rules being so casual that those who are more "edgy" are given a lot of leniency to make comments.

As far as the league plateauing, I think there is always going to be a cap for something like this. It is based around looking at numbers and requires a decent amount of work to actually be good, so it is going to be a turn off for a lot of people in general.

I don't think we necessarily have to keep growing. As long as we have a solid community and people who want to contribute to the league, that should be fine.

I tend to agree with argar. we all want to see the site continue to expand, but as of right now the community itself and the % of new members coming in and sticking with it seems to be in a healthy place.

We should continue to add strong incentives for recruitments as word of mouth is still our best way to bring in engaged community members.

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***caltroit_red_flames*** · 09-14-2018, 05:15 PM

09-14-2018, 05:08 PMMike Izzy Wrote:
09-14-2018, 03:38 PMArGarBarGar Wrote:
09-14-2018, 03:34 PMDannyMethane Wrote: I think it has a ton to do with the normalcy of the toxic culture and just general immaturity of some of the more outspoken members of the community. For every Pris and TML there's two Logan's or Formx's. Lots of inside jokes and chirps that might drive some people away. Furthermore, the progression can seem slow for people who just want to jump in and have fun (I have an idea for an Unlimited League that I'll need to explore further before bringing anything else to light), and a lot of people just can't or won't keep up with the weekly demands that the PT's and earning money commands.

Nobody is really immune so much as the rules being so casual that those who are more "edgy" are given a lot of leniency to make comments.

As far as the league plateauing, I think there is always going to be a cap for something like this. It is based around looking at numbers and requires a decent amount of work to actually be good, so it is going to be a turn off for a lot of people in general.

I don't think we necessarily have to keep growing. As long as we have a solid community and people who want to contribute to the league, that should be fine.

I tend to agree with argar. we all want to see the site continue to expand, but as of right now the community itself and the % of new members coming in and sticking with it seems to be in a healthy place.

King's post shows only an increase of one member per month. To be honest I think that's horrendously low.

ToeDragon84 · 09-14-2018, 05:48 PM

It's kinda crazy the site from 2010 that was used for like S1-8 or something has 1k members it was bumping for a year and a half. Maybe the #'s inflated somehow idk. Interesting to look back at though

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theshl/i...1cda7e5057

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