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Justice · 09-16-2018, 01:00 PM

TDZ is handling this real good and I think regardless of HO's decision we should give him a pat on the back yanoe

I expect better from wallace tho bc "not being a bigot" isn't what the rule is nor is it that simple so i think he should take people's grievances more seriously yanoe

JumpierPegasus · 09-16-2018, 01:04 PM

09-16-2018, 12:48 PMnour Wrote: “The least you could do is not be terrible at your job”

holy shit how can you actually not love JP

Nour so perfect :3

But yes, I would like to recognize TDZ. I also had a great discord conversation with him on the topic, so thank you for taking your time to open up about some rational and what the HO is looking into

*thedangazone* · 09-16-2018, 01:07 PM

While we're on this free speech thing. Let's look at what it actually entails instead of just assuming you can call someone whatever you want without penalty. The first amendment only protects from the government. That is a big misconception with it. I'm sure someone that knows laws will come by and correct me somewhat because admittedly I'm not great with them and they don't interest me in studying. But regardless claiming freedom of speech doesn't actually permit you to be a bigot.

Quote:The First Amendment's freedom of speech right not only proscribes most government restrictions on the content of speech and ability to speak, but also protects the right to receive information, prohibits most government restrictions or burdens that discriminate between speakers, restricts the tort liability of individuals for certain speech, and prevents the government from requiring individuals and corporations to speak or finance certain types of speech with which they don't agree.

Categories of speech that are given lesser or no protection by the First Amendment include obscenity (as determined by the Miller test), fraud, child pornography, speech integral to illegal conduct,speech that incites imminent lawless action, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising. Within these limited areas, other limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for authors over their works (copyright), protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons, restrictions on the use of untruths to harm others (slander), and communications while a person is in prison. When a speech restriction is challenged in court, it is presumed invalid and the government bears the burden of convincing the court that the restriction is constitutional

And while we're on this whole slur slinging thing why don't we have a look at this too. While it varies by state attacking someone with slurs is considered hate speech and is a hate crime. So just think about what you guys are saying before you say it please.

Quote:The statutes forbid communication that is hateful, threatening, or abusive, and targets a person on account of disability, ethnic or national origin, nationality (including citizenship), race, religion, sexual orientation, or skin colour. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

The fact we even have to have this rule is mind boggling. No other league has this problem nor has to have this rule so why is it that we had to actually step in and make a ruling on this. It's not hard to be a decent human being and we're all the same on the inside. We're still humans and we're equal, regardless if you think otherwise.

JSS · 09-16-2018, 01:07 PM

Honestly @Wally for an HO member, you really don't like listening to the people that make this league active and their opinion on things

Samsung virtual assistant · 09-16-2018, 01:10 PM

09-16-2018, 01:07 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: The fact we even have to have this rule is mind boggling. No other league has this problem nor has to have this rule so why is it that we had to actually step in and make a ruling on this. It's not hard to be a decent human being and we're all the same on the inside. We're still humans and we're equal, regardless if you think otherwise.

That's the thing though, we don't really need it. We already had the "Don't be a dick" rule and peopel were gettign suspended if they went over the top. Banning words is definitely not the way to go.

JumpierPegasus · 09-16-2018, 01:10 PM

Yeah but I genuinely think @Dangles13 is lower status than me. What do I do then?

*thedangazone* · 09-16-2018, 01:12 PM

09-16-2018, 01:10 PMSmegKingma Wrote:
09-16-2018, 01:07 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: The fact we even have to have this rule is mind boggling. No other league has this problem nor has to have this rule so why is it that we had to actually step in and make a ruling on this. It's not hard to be a decent human being and we're all the same on the inside. We're still humans and we're equal, regardless if you think otherwise.

That's the thing though, we don't really need it. We already had the "Don't be a dick" rule and peopel were gettign suspended if they went over the top. Banning words is definitely not the way to go.

We'll touch on this later when we make a post on it but I think most words aren't going to be banned. It will more than likely come down to contextual situations. That being said there's no room for some words on the site regardless so we'll see where we stand on some. Again it will be covered when I make a post in a bit

Dangles13 · 09-16-2018, 01:12 PM

09-16-2018, 01:07 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: While we're on this free speech thing. Let's look at what it actually entails instead of just assuming you can call someone whatever you want without penalty. The first amendment only protects from the government. That is a big misconception with it. I'm sure someone that knows laws will come by and correct me somewhat because admittedly I'm not great with them and they don't interest me in studying. But regardless claiming freedom of speech doesn't actually permit you to be a bigot.

Quote:The First Amendment's freedom of speech right not only proscribes most government restrictions on the content of speech and ability to speak, but also protects the right to receive information, prohibits most government restrictions or burdens that discriminate between speakers, restricts the tort liability of individuals for certain speech, and prevents the government from requiring individuals and corporations to speak or finance certain types of speech with which they don't agree.

Categories of speech that are given lesser or no protection by the First Amendment include obscenity (as determined by the Miller test), fraud, child pornography, speech integral to illegal conduct,speech that incites imminent lawless action, and regulation of commercial speech such as advertising. Within these limited areas, other limitations on free speech balance rights to free speech and other rights, such as rights for authors over their works (copyright), protection from imminent or potential violence against particular persons, restrictions on the use of untruths to harm others (slander), and communications while a person is in prison. When a speech restriction is challenged in court, it is presumed invalid and the government bears the burden of convincing the court that the restriction is constitutional

And while we're on this whole slur slinging thing why don't we have a look at this too. While it varies by state attacking someone with slurs is considered hate speech and is a hate crime. So just think about what you guys are saying before you say it please.

Quote:The statutes forbid communication that is hateful, threatening, or abusive, and targets a person on account of disability, ethnic or national origin, nationality (including citizenship), race, religion, sexual orientation, or skin colour. The penalties for hate speech include fines, imprisonment, or both.

The fact we even have to have this rule is mind boggling. No other league has this problem nor has to have this rule so why is it that we had to actually step in and make a ruling on this. It's not hard to be a decent human being and we're all the same on the inside. We're still humans and we're equal, regardless if you think otherwise.

I appreciate the research but I think we can all agree that people are just hiding behind "free-speech" to bust some balls. The ruling itself was done with good intentions but just fails to hit the mark. Anytime you create a written rule you also create at least one unwritten rule, would be a good idea to think about what those rules might be.

Samsung virtual assistant · 09-16-2018, 01:14 PM

09-16-2018, 01:12 PMTheDangaZone Wrote:
09-16-2018, 01:10 PMSmegKingma Wrote:
09-16-2018, 01:07 PMTheDangaZone Wrote: The fact we even have to have this rule is mind boggling. No other league has this problem nor has to have this rule so why is it that we had to actually step in and make a ruling on this. It's not hard to be a decent human being and we're all the same on the inside. We're still humans and we're equal, regardless if you think otherwise.

That's the thing though, we don't really need it. We already had the "Don't be a dick" rule and peopel were gettign suspended if they went over the top. Banning words is definitely not the way to go.

We'll touch on this later when we make a post on it but I think most words aren't going to be banned. It will more than likely come down to contextual situations. That being said there's no room for some words on the site regardless so we'll see where we stand on some. Again it will be covered when I make a post in a bit

Sounds good brother, i'll wait for it before i touch this again

Dangles13 · 09-16-2018, 01:15 PM

09-16-2018, 01:10 PMJumpierPancakes Wrote: Yeah but I genuinely think @Dangles13 is lower status than me. What do I do then?

I'd suggest lowering yourself to my standards tbh.

Justice · 09-16-2018, 01:16 PM

[Image: ff8c9dd1dbc5e4c80e83041b6d86a8b4.png]

*thedangazone* · 09-16-2018, 01:16 PM

09-16-2018, 01:12 PMDangles13 Wrote: I appreciate the research but I think we can all agree that people are just hiding behind "free-speech" to bust some balls. The ruling itself was done with good intentions but just fails to hit the mark. Anytime you create a written rule you also create at least one unwritten rule, would be a good idea to think about what those rules might be.

I get that. This was more to educate the ones who possibly didn't know. OR I could be completely wrong on it tbh. I study history not law. But yes it's a tough situation. I didn't want to make this rule but it felt like it had to be done with how the site was going in that TD thread. The amount of hate speech in there was just absurd.

bana · 09-16-2018, 01:19 PM

GJ

ThatDamnWalrus · 09-16-2018, 01:37 PM

Ho doesn't care about it's members imo

Sean · 09-16-2018, 01:46 PM

09-16-2018, 12:54 PMWally Wrote:
09-16-2018, 12:27 PMToeDragon84 Wrote:
09-16-2018, 12:19 PMWally Wrote: I’m pleasantly enjoying the complaints.

Too bad your ego is so big you aren't willing to admit you may be out of line anywhere at all by adding such a poor rule to our league. Great head office term you started to limit free speech, sick!

Yup... limiting your freedom to publicly be a bigot. Guilty.

I've kept out of this discussion, but I've read the whole thing. I'm really not a fan of how you're responding the critics of the rule, and this is coming as someone who supports it. Calling people bigots because they oppose a rule that at the very least can be interpreted to mean that under no circumstances can you say the word gay on these forums isn't it a good look.

Now, you've been here a lot longer than me, and I'm sure you've seen hate on these forums that you want to end that I've never had the "pleasure" of dealing with. I understand why it is easy to take certain users reservations as veiled attempts to continue their bigotry. That may even be true. However, the source of a point does not negate the point, and this rule has either not been worded properly or is a rule that I believe needs to be revisited (this only applies to the use of gay, I think it's pretty easy to replace any other "okay" uses of the other words).

Personally, I appreciate the work you're trying to do. Thank you. Please remember, it's not the people you are arguing with you need to convince, it's everyone watching. I don't know who's an asshole trying to stir up shit and who's well meaning, I just see you ignoring potentially valid points.

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