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sash · 12-12-2018, 11:45 PM

12-12-2018, 07:31 PMTheDangaZone Wrote:
12-12-2018, 07:28 PMRabidsponge21 Wrote: What if there was info to back this all up?

Tests showing it works?

Or even if some of these could make sense NOW with the bigger ideas being pushed back until there is proof it works. Kind of lazy to just write it off with that response no?

What if this was just a response to samee who has no idea what he's talking about?

We're looking into everything still and discussing what we like and don't like about the system you put in. Finals week for a lot of us in HO so some things have taken a bit of dive in activity this week until we can all get our exams sorted out and get back to full activity on discussing stuff.

it pleases me that you guys are looking into this! in the past I saw these kind of suggestions come with no real response from the head office, it kinda upset me since i did like them. Hopefully alot of these ideas are put to the test, or something like that maybe!

trella · 12-12-2018, 11:56 PM

i agree with everything you said rabid. there in a new sim league in the works based on FHM 4 called the NSHL and it is based on indivisuality and player diversity. we plan to drop it on new year's, i think you'd really enjoy it

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Wasty · 12-13-2018, 01:15 AM

Tbh we use STHS in the wrong way anyways. I don’t really know how much we can fix since it’s just human nature to want the most TPE, but if we used STHS correctly I think we’d find out that starting builds should be in the 10’s - 20’s in attribute numbers and build from there. STHS isn’t made for 90’s and 99’s in attributes, it was made to have much lower #s in attributes and drastic levels between attributes. I don’t know how it would work for SHL but first step would everyone starts at a lower attribute maybe even 1 in some catagories and then that’s where the true TPE whoring would come in.

#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers

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Sean · 12-13-2018, 02:00 AM

Get rid of Defense as a strength or everyone gets it as a strength. People are always going to work to get a build that will make defense 99. If we make it so no one or everyone can it will diversify the builds.

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karlssens · 12-13-2018, 04:23 AM

12-13-2018, 01:15 AMWasty Wrote: Tbh we use STHS in the wrong way anyways. I don’t really know how much we can fix since it’s just human nature to want the most TPE, but if we used STHS correctly I think we’d find out that starting builds should be in the 10’s - 20’s in attribute numbers and build from there. STHS isn’t made for 90’s and 99’s in attributes, it was made to have much lower #s in attributes and drastic levels between attributes. I don’t know how it would work for SHL but first step would everyone starts at a lower attribute maybe even 1 in some catagories and then that’s where the true TPE whoring would come in.

Never seen someone come at it like this before. Really cool idea. Not sure how we’d implement though given the way everything is now but it would force people to push real hard to hit 99 in any category, let alone multiple ones.

Wasty · 12-13-2018, 04:31 AM

12-13-2018, 04:23 AMkarlssens Wrote:
12-13-2018, 01:15 AMWasty Wrote: Tbh we use STHS in the wrong way anyways. I don’t really know how much we can fix since it’s just human nature to want the most TPE, but if we used STHS correctly I think we’d find out that starting builds should be in the 10’s - 20’s in attribute numbers and build from there. STHS isn’t made for 90’s and 99’s in attributes, it was made to have much lower #s in attributes and drastic levels between attributes. I don’t know how it would work for SHL but first step would everyone starts at a lower attribute maybe even 1 in some catagories and then that’s where the true TPE whoring would come in.

Never seen someone come at it like this before. Really cool idea. Not sure how we’d implement though given the way everything is now but it would force people to push real hard to hit 99 in any category, let alone multiple ones.

Yeah I think if the player archetypes really focused on starting from truly low attribute ratings like weaknesses started at 1 and strengths started at like 15 and the other attributes were 10. No starting TPE and allow two seasons of juniors before SHL draft. Would make player builds be truly developed and give a lot of freedom with attributes. However its would kill casual members and some people would hate seeing an attribute at like 20. But honestly STHS isn't made for players to even be 80's-90's in all attributes, I mean look at the NHL players ratings and you'd get a good look at how STHS was actually built to be optimized. But with all this would basically uproot the league and start anew with players and a new update scale as well. Too much work at this point but might be the only way to really keep what has been happening for the past 40 seasons.

#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers

/ MINNESOTA MONARCHS

Rabidsponge21 · 12-13-2018, 08:19 AM

I most definitely don't claim to have all the solutions with my main post. This is why I started this to at least get people talking. Honestly I'd like just a few of these ideas as a base to be considered to start then we can go from there

And again to people like @Boomcheck your one of the very few who go up right away it's a more rare occurrence then regular and like I said you leave the ability to go up still after 1 season but your regression timer starts right away. You can't say over the past 15 seasons I've been here that no more than 10% of draftees go straight up after draft. It just doesn't happen.

Dangles13 · 12-13-2018, 09:27 AM

STHS is the major hurdle in anything we do. It is potentially the worst sim engine out there and simultaneously the best one for our needs. FHM, EHM, NHL and a few others won't work without major work.

DanbyRem · 12-13-2018, 10:26 AM

Archetypes were a great idea when they were first thought up. However in the long run they don't really diversify anything. They work if we have people who can only reach 1000ish TPE, but we have a lot of people here with 1600+ TPE, which totally destroys the archetype dream. I think they are pointless at the moment and the way I look at it, they should be removed altogether unless we can figure out a way to make them actually affect the sim.

ArGarBarGar · 12-13-2018, 11:01 AM

12-13-2018, 08:19 AMRabidsponge21 Wrote: And again to people like @Boomcheck your one of the very few who go up right away it's a more rare occurrence then regular and like I said you leave the ability to go up still after 1 season but your regression timer starts right away. You can't say over the past 15 seasons I've been here that no more than 10% of draftees go straight up after draft. It just doesn't happen.

A big reason behind that is the fact that teams don't have the room to bring up players. I mentioned in one of my podcasts that teams are much more stacked than they were even 10 seasons ago and now we have players staying in juniors for 3+ seasons these days because of it.

I have been a big proponent of SHL expansion to reduce the logjam in the SMJHL and not only let SHL prospects get their shot but also SMJHL rookies get more ice time in general.

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***hhh81*** · 12-13-2018, 11:07 AM

I appreciate @Wasty 's comments re: STHS. As someone just figuring out how to do anything in STHS, I find those points interesting. It seems there's a need to change some things and really think through the butterfly effect of one change on everything else. Will we still need expansion if we start everyone with lower stats? What effect does lowering stats have on the casual user, and do we still need capped TPE opps? I don't know, but I appreciate rabid for bringing this up.

***JR95*** · 12-13-2018, 11:28 AM

12-13-2018, 01:15 AMWasty Wrote: Tbh we use STHS in the wrong way anyways. I don’t really know how much we can fix since it’s just human nature to want the most TPE, but if we used STHS correctly I think we’d find out that starting builds should be in the 10’s - 20’s in attribute numbers and build from there. STHS isn’t made for 90’s and 99’s in attributes, it was made to have much lower #s in attributes and drastic levels between attributes. I don’t know how it would work for SHL but first step would everyone starts at a lower attribute maybe even 1 in some catagories and then that’s where the true TPE whoring would come in.

Been reading the thread seeing where it was gonna go..but wasty nailed it here. All this sths is the limitting factor is a bit nonesensical. It really is the way we use it. Ive seen STHS run very well numerous times in other leagues where there are real diversity in stats and not just a 10-20 point difference at most.

Rabidsponge21 · 12-13-2018, 12:27 PM

The other thing I see is people too focused on is the lower tpe total I am talking about. This would require a new TPE distribution system. Un attach from current numbers because the basis of this would be to reduce those massive numbers and bring it back to something more manageable.

Honestly. If reducing the numbers so we don't have 99s across the board and 80 became the new 99 I would be all for that. If it does what we need it to do its a path we should explore. The problem is once again many people are so attached to the notion that they need to be able to achieve 99 in a stat or bust would need to change. You don't need to look at this as if it's nhl on console because it's not. Everyone doesn't need to be 99.

ArGarBarGar · 12-13-2018, 12:33 PM

12-13-2018, 11:28 AMJR95 Wrote:
12-13-2018, 01:15 AMWasty Wrote: Tbh we use STHS in the wrong way anyways. I don’t really know how much we can fix since it’s just human nature to want the most TPE, but if we used STHS correctly I think we’d find out that starting builds should be in the 10’s - 20’s in attribute numbers and build from there. STHS isn’t made for 90’s and 99’s in attributes, it was made to have much lower #s in attributes and drastic levels between attributes. I don’t know how it would work for SHL but first step would everyone starts at a lower attribute maybe even 1 in some catagories and then that’s where the true TPE whoring would come in.

Been reading the thread seeing where it was gonna go..but wasty nailed it here. All this sths is the limitting factor is a bit nonesensical. It really is the way we use it. Ive seen STHS run very well numerous times in other leagues where there are real diversity in stats and not just a 10-20 point difference at most.

What about the stats in STHS are diverse?

People throw around the word and don't ever demonstrate what that entails in any meaningful way.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
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***JR95*** · 12-13-2018, 01:22 PM

12-13-2018, 12:33 PMArGarBarGar Wrote:
12-13-2018, 11:28 AMJR95 Wrote: Been reading the thread seeing where it was gonna go..but wasty nailed it here. All this sths is the limitting factor is a bit nonesensical. It really is the way we use it. Ive seen STHS run very well numerous times in other leagues where there are real diversity in stats and not just a 10-20 point difference at most.

What about the stats in STHS are diverse?

People throw around the word and don't ever demonstrate what that entails in any meaningful way.

I mean i gave an example in that very same post you quoted: "not just a 10-20 point difference at most". My post wasn't meant to go in depth as I was on my phone at the time.

I've seen STHS work very well when builds are very widely spread out. top end snipers had 40-50 def, most dmen don't have more than 40-60 scoring at most other than the specialty PP quarterbacks or what-have you. a lot of the elite players that had higher 80s or 90s in stats still had some big weaknesses in other stats. There were useful 3rd liners and PKers becausae they had slightly more rounded builds with not many stand out stats.

All that said I have no clue and haven't thought much about how to translate that to the SHL. I was just trying to support wasty's point that the problem is more so how we use the engine rather than the engine itself.

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