Login

Boomcheck · 12-13-2018, 04:37 PM

12-13-2018, 08:19 AMRabidsponge21 Wrote: I most definitely don't claim to have all the solutions with my main post. This is why I started this to at least get people talking. Honestly I'd like just a few of these ideas as a base to be considered to start then we can go from there

And again to people like @Boomcheck your one of the very few who go up right away it's a more rare occurrence then regular and like I said you leave the ability to go up still after 1 season but your regression timer starts right away. You can't say over the past 15 seasons I've been here that no more than 10% of draftees go straight up after draft. It just doesn't happen.

Why would we run a system that would benefit a player for staying down another season than going up right away? That's kind of the exact opposite of what should happen. The flaw in your suggestion is that the player that spends 2 seasons in the SMJHL will get more opportunity to earn TPE before even hitting regression, while the player that goes up earlier has less opportunity to do so. Why not just keep the rules as the same, 1 season before the draft, but if you stay down you cannot have more than x tpe. Like you literally cannot earn over a certain amount, hard cap. See people will get up in arms about it and say, 'what about the young prospects apart of stacked teams'.

I don't see many teams using their 4th line, it's just a double shifting parade. There's room in the SHL, but no one wants to take it.

People staying down has been a trend since like S20+, it does have to do with how stacked some teams are like ArGar says BUT people still don't take the chance when they are available. They fear doing poorly. They would rather be that big fish in a small pond of the SMJHL where they put up great numbers.

When given the opportunity to go up immediately while being offered top 6/top 4 mins players ill still stay down. With how things are currently, forwards can have it a little rough. Defensemen? They can do really well right out of the gate.

Part of the reason I prefer going up so quickly is because the settings are different between the SHL and SMJHL, so it would be in my best interest to test out how I do in the sim setting that matters.

With expansion we will be able to have more homes for players, but I also believe the frail mindset of members in this league may not change. When I first joined I barely made the 4th line of a Chiefs team and was happy. I essentially played on the 3rd/4th line for my first 3 seasons. The SMJHL seemed more like the AHL and ain't nobody really wanted to be sent back down there.

Also this league favors offensive production in many ways, and i'm not talking sim engine. I'm talking members in the awards committee. They are heavily biased and seem to lean towards point production from what I have experienced. Why put your TPE in other areas when all they care about is how you put the puck in the net or how many dimes you get? I will say it again. The awards committee is horrendous.

Mayuu · 12-13-2018, 10:44 PM

I don't really hold and romanticism to the SHL compared to SMJHL, I want to see my player contribute to the team in a meaningful way. Forcing up players or earning less would be awful.

I don't get why you're so up in arms about changes that tailor to the masses and instead wanna make changes that only a firinge amount of people think is a problem.

RETIRED

Boomcheck · 12-14-2018, 02:55 AM

12-13-2018, 10:44 PMMayuu Wrote: I don't really hold and romanticism to the SHL compared to SMJHL, I want to see my player contribute to the team in a meaningful way. Forcing up players or earning less would be awful.

I don't get why you're so up in arms about changes that tailor to the masses and instead wanna make changes that only a firinge amount of people think is a problem.

If you put up 25 pts as a true rookie right out of the draft is that not considered a meaningful contribution?

Mayuu · 12-14-2018, 03:10 AM

12-14-2018, 02:55 AMBoomcheck Wrote:
12-13-2018, 10:44 PMMayuu Wrote: I don't really hold and romanticism to the SHL compared to SMJHL, I want to see my player contribute to the team in a meaningful way. Forcing up players or earning less would be awful.

I don't get why you're so up in arms about changes that tailor to the masses and instead wanna make changes that only a firinge amount of people think is a problem.

If you put up 25 pts as a true rookie right out of the draft is that not considered a meaningful contribution?

Sure. But when theres 5-6 inactives who can do it as well I'd rather play in the juniors and help the team there.

RETIRED

Wasty · 12-14-2018, 03:29 AM

12-14-2018, 02:55 AMBoomcheck Wrote:
12-13-2018, 10:44 PMMayuu Wrote: I don't really hold and romanticism to the SHL compared to SMJHL, I want to see my player contribute to the team in a meaningful way. Forcing up players or earning less would be awful.

I don't get why you're so up in arms about changes that tailor to the masses and instead wanna make changes that only a firinge amount of people think is a problem.

If you put up 25 pts as a true rookie right out of the draft is that not considered a meaningful contribution?

When was the last true rookie to earn 25 points from the 4th line? or even the 3rd line.

#40 Niclas Wastlund - W - VANCOUVER WHALERS Whalers

/ MINNESOTA MONARCHS

Boomcheck · 12-14-2018, 04:30 AM

12-14-2018, 03:29 AMWasty Wrote:
12-14-2018, 02:55 AMBoomcheck Wrote: If you put up 25 pts as a true rookie right out of the draft is that not considered a meaningful contribution?
When was the last true rookie to earn 25 points from the 4th line? or even the 3rd line.

I'm talking about getting the opportunity. I am responding to him, who seems to not even want to go up even if given the opportunity to play in a contributing role. A #4D true rookie defenseman can hit those numbers. Forwards are a different story, especially with how centers have to invest in face offs. Not always about the points, but if your entire build is geared towards points then you may not be in for a fun time. A true rookie could technically enter with what, 400ish TPE?

Pretty sure that no good true rookie forward in recent times have hit 25 points from any area, let alone 3rd/4th. Why? There are hardly any. When was the last high end forward prospect go straight to the SHL out of the draft?

*Tomen* · 12-14-2018, 05:01 AM

12-14-2018, 04:30 AMBoomcheck Wrote:
12-14-2018, 03:29 AMWasty Wrote: When was the last true rookie to earn 25 points from the 4th line? or even the 3rd line.

I'm talking about getting the opportunity. I am responding to him, who seems to not even want to go up even if given the opportunity to play in a contributing role. A #4D true rookie defenseman can hit those numbers. Forwards are a different story, especially with how centers have to invest in face offs. Not always about the points, but if your entire build is geared towards points then you may not be in for a fun time. A true rookie could technically enter with what, 400ish TPE?

Pretty sure that no good true rookie forward in recent times have hit 25 points from any area, let alone 3rd/4th. Why? There are hardly any. When was the last high end forward prospect go straight to the SHL out of the draft?

Ace Redding S31 played his first game with 441. But he also created after the TDL and back then you were able to buy equip in that short season + the seasons were longer giving him an advantage of let's say 40 TPE. A high end prospect can only get 400 TPE nowadays to play their first game with. Redding also played always on the 2nd or 1st line in that season + on the PP for half the season. This allowed him to play around 18 minutes per game and score 22 Points.

You will never see a true rookie put up 25+ Points as a forward.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

Mayuu · 12-14-2018, 06:28 AM

12-14-2018, 04:30 AMBoomcheck Wrote:
12-14-2018, 03:29 AMWasty Wrote: When was the last true rookie to earn 25 points from the 4th line? or even the 3rd line.

I'm talking about getting the opportunity. I am responding to him, who seems to not even want to go up even if given the opportunity to play in a contributing role. A #4D true rookie defenseman can hit those numbers. Forwards are a different story, especially with how centers have to invest in face offs. Not always about the points, but if your entire build is geared towards points then you may not be in for a fun time. A true rookie could technically enter with what, 400ish TPE?

Pretty sure that no good true rookie forward in recent times have hit 25 points from any area, let alone 3rd/4th. Why? There are hardly any. When was the last high end forward prospect go straight to the SHL out of the draft?

If I'd get a contributing role, sure. But there's a reason people don't want to go up. I'd rather see my player perform well in juniors then play little to no part in majors, after all, it's a sim where you control your player and there's as much ice and competition in the juniors as there is in majors.

If Buffalo told me "we need you" I'd go up without a heart beat. But if there's no need I'm going to have more fun watching my player perform in the juniors.

RETIRED

Chris-McZehrl · 12-14-2018, 06:54 AM

I saw rookies with over 40 points! way back in the past Cry

Boomcheck · 12-14-2018, 06:18 PM

12-14-2018, 05:01 AMTomen Wrote:
12-14-2018, 04:30 AMBoomcheck Wrote: I'm talking about getting the opportunity. I am responding to him, who seems to not even want to go up even if given the opportunity to play in a contributing role. A #4D true rookie defenseman can hit those numbers. Forwards are a different story, especially with how centers have to invest in face offs. Not always about the points, but if your entire build is geared towards points then you may not be in for a fun time. A true rookie could technically enter with what, 400ish TPE?

Pretty sure that no good true rookie forward in recent times have hit 25 points from any area, let alone 3rd/4th. Why? There are hardly any. When was the last high end forward prospect go straight to the SHL out of the draft?

Ace Redding S31 played his first game with 441. But he also created after the TDL and back then you were able to buy equip in that short season + the seasons were longer giving him an advantage of let's say 40 TPE. A high end prospect can only get 400 TPE nowadays to play their first game with. Redding also played always on the 2nd or 1st line in that season + on the PP for half the season. This allowed him to play around 18 minutes per game and score 22 Points.

You will never see a true rookie put up 25+ Points as a forward.

Other than the fact Redding was more of a two way physical player, don't think he could add on 3 more points if he were more offensively inclined?

Our good friend Mayuu makes a good point. If his team needs him they would likely be fine with going up, but teams can likely find some 400-500 TPE guy as an inactive FA and just plug them in there instead, right?

Maybe we should start killing some of these dinosaurs off Hmm

*Tomen* · 12-14-2018, 06:45 PM

12-14-2018, 06:18 PMBoomcheck Wrote: Other than the fact Redding was more of a two way physical player, don't think he could add on 3 more points if he were more offensively inclined?

Our good friend Mayuu makes a good point. If his team needs him they would likely be fine with going up, but teams can likely find some 400-500 TPE guy as an inactive FA and just plug them in there instead, right?

Maybe we should start killing some of these dinosaurs off

He had 66 Checking which equals 32 TPE which is essentially the advantage he got from creating early and he put 6 TPE into his weakness ( Strength). So 38 TPE not spent on just offense.
Even if you earn every TPE opportunity possible you are just never good enough as a true rookie.

Edit: Let's look at King he was at 416 TPE to start the season. Why would I ever call up a 416 TPE forward to play on the 3rd or 4th line and ruin their chances at a good RotY campaign unless they really wanna get called up.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
Germany

3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

ArGarBarGar · 12-14-2018, 10:09 PM

Expand and you will have more spots open for rookies to actually play sooner than their third season after being drafted.

Alonzo Garbanzo Final Tallies (Among Defensemen):
2nd in Goals (208), All-Time Assists Leader (765)*, All-Time Points Leader (973), 3rd in Hits (2587), All-Time Blocked Shots Leader (1882)*
*All-Time Leader Among All Skaters
Player Profile | Update Thread
[Image: IeEV7Iv.png]

spooked · 12-14-2018, 11:15 PM

I do really like the idea of skill caps on specific archetypes (I really liked SBAs version when I was creating there) and aggressively spreading out tpe gaps on certain skills. Also building more defined builds at creation could also help new players not "mess up" their player at creation when they don't know what is broken and what is useless.

Not sure anything else in this thread really matters too much more than the build identity stuff. SMJHL call up and tpe earning rates are alright right now. Regression could be adjusted, but its not really hurting anyone the way it is now and im not sure there is much value in forcing people to be called up against their will or kill someones player with regression.

Out of all of the issues I can think of, having non-unique builds, and many stats that basically feel useless like checking, end, discipline, are the only issues that directly dissuade people from feeling invested. When you build a player to do something specific, but the skill gaps on builds aren't big enough to actually allow it to happen its really frustrating.

***luke*** · 12-14-2018, 11:26 PM

12-14-2018, 10:09 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: Expand and you will have more spots open for rookies to actually play sooner than their third season after being drafted.

This and promote active players than TPE fillers. Of Course inactives that are worth something with high TPE is great, but I think an incentive to have active players in the league will make it better as well

*Scrufdaddy* · 12-15-2018, 12:06 AM

12-14-2018, 11:26 PMluketd Wrote:
12-14-2018, 10:09 PMArGarBarGar Wrote: Expand and you will have more spots open for rookies to actually play sooner than their third season after being drafted.

This and promote active players than TPE fillers. Of Course inactives that are worth something with high TPE is great, but I think an incentive to have active players in the league will make it better as well

What if Inactives hit regression faster or harder? (Or if there was a base inactive regression for every season a player is inactive). Alternatively, players could auto retire after a certain number of seasons inactive.
That could give GMs incentives to replace their Inactives with Actives, without just pulling their strong players out from under them immediately.

In either case we'd have to be respectful to the fact that teams make an investment by picking a player. So if we take away or devalue a player, that artificially sets a team back by negating their investment.
It's like the two competing methodologies. Should we tax what we don't want (Inactives) or should we subsidize what we do want (Actives) in order to make it more appealing to have Actives over Inactives.

I just completed my first season on the site, so I don't have the context to know if these are good ideas. Figured I'd put them out there in case they make sense.

Navigation

Extra Menu

About us