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Daco · 12-28-2018, 08:35 PM

Modano is a legend i think Kane/Parise/Suter all have shots at surpassing him for best American ever though

Bonk · 12-28-2018, 08:45 PM

12-28-2018, 08:14 PMraymond3000 Wrote:
12-28-2018, 07:23 PMBonk Wrote: Source https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/hhof.html

Mark Recchi
Pat Quinn
Phil Housley
Mike Modano
Willie O'Ree

Only looked at the recent inductees

They do have all-star appearance and cups but not individual awards

First, Pat Quinn and Willie O'Ree got in as builders, not players. And of the players you listed, the only one who got in first ballot was Modano, and he was the face of the Stars franchise his entire career and is considered the greatest American-born player of all time. Recchi didn't get in until his 3rd ballot, and it took Housley 10 tries to get in.

I think apart from the awards, the biggest knock on Pedersen is that he was never really considered the best player on the Dragons. In the early part of his career, Esa was considered the superior player, and later on it was Randleman who became Calgary's top forward. He was just consistently the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team throughout his career, which is great, but he never proved he could carry a team by himself. You could say that is him being punished for playing on a good team, but teammates like Randleman and Nuck were able to put up monster seasons while Pedersen couldn't.

That was list I made in five secs based of @Daco one comment of "provide examples of NHL hall of famers with high alltime totals but never being the best individual player in any season at all" I am sure if looked for two minutes I would have had better examples. Such as Mats Sundin

Bonk · 12-28-2018, 08:46 PM

Scott Stevans never won a Norris.

raymond3000 · 12-28-2018, 08:52 PM

12-28-2018, 08:45 PMBonk Wrote:
12-28-2018, 08:14 PMraymond3000 Wrote: First, Pat Quinn and Willie O'Ree got in as builders, not players. And of the players you listed, the only one who got in first ballot was Modano, and he was the face of the Stars franchise his entire career and is considered the greatest American-born player of all time. Recchi didn't get in until his 3rd ballot, and it took Housley 10 tries to get in.

I think apart from the awards, the biggest knock on Pedersen is that he was never really considered the best player on the Dragons. In the early part of his career, Esa was considered the superior player, and later on it was Randleman who became Calgary's top forward. He was just consistently the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team throughout his career, which is great, but he never proved he could carry a team by himself. You could say that is him being punished for playing on a good team, but teammates like Randleman and Nuck were able to put up monster seasons while Pedersen couldn't.

That was list I made in five secs based of @Daco one comment of "provide examples of NHL hall of famers with high alltime totals but never being the best individual player in any season at all" I am sure if looked for two minutes I would have had better examples. Such as Mats Sundin

My bad, I thought this was still in relation to Pedersen not making it in.

*Tomen* · 12-28-2018, 08:58 PM

12-28-2018, 08:45 PMBonk Wrote:
12-28-2018, 08:14 PMraymond3000 Wrote: First, Pat Quinn and Willie O'Ree got in as builders, not players. And of the players you listed, the only one who got in first ballot was Modano, and he was the face of the Stars franchise his entire career and is considered the greatest American-born player of all time. Recchi didn't get in until his 3rd ballot, and it took Housley 10 tries to get in.

I think apart from the awards, the biggest knock on Pedersen is that he was never really considered the best player on the Dragons. In the early part of his career, Esa was considered the superior player, and later on it was Randleman who became Calgary's top forward. He was just consistently the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team throughout his career, which is great, but he never proved he could carry a team by himself. You could say that is him being punished for playing on a good team, but teammates like Randleman and Nuck were able to put up monster seasons while Pedersen couldn't.

That was list I made in five secs based of @Daco one comment of "provide examples of NHL hall of famers with high alltime totals but never being the best individual player in any season at all" I am sure if looked for two minutes I would have had better examples. Such as Mats Sundin

He meant first ballot HoFers not HoFers in general. But Modano/Sundin is still a valid prove of that.

Thank you all for the amazing sigs & player cards
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3. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 5 (Maximilian Wachter, Alexis Metzler) at 16:25
5. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 6 (Steven Stamkos Jr., Brynjar Tusk) at 19:48
8. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 7 (Brynjar Tusk, Alexis Metzler) at 13:55
9. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 8 (Anton Fedorov, Mikelis Grundmanis) at 15:12
10. Buffalo Stampede , Eduard Selich 9 (Dickie Pecker) at 19:43 (Empty Net)

kit · 12-28-2018, 09:12 PM

12-28-2018, 08:35 PMDaco Wrote: Modano is a legend i think Kane/Parise/Suter all have shots at surpassing him for best American ever though

Def not parise or suter and I’m a massive wild homer

Nereus · 12-28-2018, 09:53 PM

12-27-2018, 04:22 AMMike Izzy Wrote:
12-26-2018, 12:10 PM.bojo Wrote: I mean... Izzy does have a point? Almost everyone else in that screenshot is HOF, and he has a bunch of championships to back it up. His rookie season he had 30 points, and from s23-s37 had no less than 40 points a season, including four over 50 with one at 59. In his 22 seasons, he had 4 under 30 points within the tail end of the career.

Not to crap on Nereus, who I'm not sure if his entry was the first ballot or not, but I'd think that kind of consistency is better than Nereus's one really good season in s34.

+1

did i need to be dragged into this lol

Daco · 12-28-2018, 09:54 PM

12-28-2018, 09:12 PMkit Wrote:
12-28-2018, 08:35 PMDaco Wrote: Modano is a legend i think Kane/Parise/Suter all have shots at surpassing him for best American ever though

Def not parise or suter and I’m a massive wild homer

Agreed in general, but if they won a cup and gold that would do it. Enormous "if" though at the end of primes

***39alaska39*** · 12-28-2018, 10:10 PM

12-28-2018, 08:14 PMraymond3000 Wrote:
12-28-2018, 07:23 PMBonk Wrote: Source https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/hhof.html

Mark Recchi
Pat Quinn
Phil Housley
Mike Modano
Willie O'Ree

Only looked at the recent inductees

They do have all-star appearance and cups but not individual awards

First, Pat Quinn and Willie O'Ree got in as builders, not players. And of the players you listed, the only one who got in first ballot was Modano, and he was the face of the Stars franchise his entire career and is considered the greatest American-born player of all time. Recchi didn't get in until his 3rd ballot, and it took Housley 10 tries to get in.

I think apart from the awards, the biggest knock on Pedersen is that he was never really considered the best player on the Dragons. In the early part of his career, Esa was considered the superior player, and later on it was Randleman who became Calgary's top forward. He was just consistently the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team throughout his career, which is great, but he never proved he could carry a team by himself. You could say that is him being punished for playing on a good team, but teammates like Randleman and Nuck were able to put up monster seasons while Pedersen couldn't.

While I don’t particularly care about HOF at this point in my career, I don’t think him not being the best player on his team should disqualify. Look at Malkin, not the best player on his team, but is almost assuredly a HOFer (probably first ballot too depending on his class)

Alex Winters (retired)
Matej Winters (retired)
Dominik Winters
S45 Jesster Trophy Winner
Challenge Cup Winning Goal Club: S52

raymond3000 · 12-28-2018, 10:46 PM

12-28-2018, 10:10 PM39alaska39 Wrote:
12-28-2018, 08:14 PMraymond3000 Wrote: First, Pat Quinn and Willie O'Ree got in as builders, not players. And of the players you listed, the only one who got in first ballot was Modano, and he was the face of the Stars franchise his entire career and is considered the greatest American-born player of all time. Recchi didn't get in until his 3rd ballot, and it took Housley 10 tries to get in.

I think apart from the awards, the biggest knock on Pedersen is that he was never really considered the best player on the Dragons. In the early part of his career, Esa was considered the superior player, and later on it was Randleman who became Calgary's top forward. He was just consistently the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team throughout his career, which is great, but he never proved he could carry a team by himself. You could say that is him being punished for playing on a good team, but teammates like Randleman and Nuck were able to put up monster seasons while Pedersen couldn't.

While I don’t particularly care about HOF at this point in my career, I don’t think him not being the best player on his team should disqualify. Look at Malkin, not the best player on his team, but is almost assuredly a HOFer (probably first ballot too depending on his class)

Right, but Malkin also has 2 Art Rosses, a Hart and a Conn Smythe and has been regarded as one of the top players in the league for a decade. Even if he is a worse player overall than Crosby is, there have been individual seasons and playoffs where Malkin has been his team's MVP. I'm not sure if the same can be said for Pedersen. Perhaps a better comparison would be Kurri (who was a 1st ballot HoFer)? I'm not old enough to have watched his career though.

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