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JNH · 04-23-2019, 12:21 AM

04-23-2019, 12:17 AMBlastmeaway Wrote: @JNH My big thing here why colorado and STL shouldn't be taking all the fault here is that there was a job thats paid 3x as much as a gm and thats all their job entails. This user is getting off scot free of failing to do their job.

I've said here that COL/STL don't deserve all the blame, but aren't faultless either.

karey · 04-23-2019, 12:25 AM

04-23-2019, 12:21 AMJNH Wrote:
04-23-2019, 12:17 AMBlastmeaway Wrote: @JNH My big thing here why colorado and STL shouldn't be taking all the fault here is that there was a job thats paid 3x as much as a gm and thats all their job entails. This user is getting off scot free of failing to do their job.

I've said here that COL/STL don't deserve all the blame, but aren't faultless either.

No one is saying they are without fault, but this punishment only affects them making them entirely to blame. Punish all or none, pick and choosing ain't ok in this post snap world.

Mayuu · 04-23-2019, 01:03 AM

Ughhh.. It gets so fucking tiresome.

If GM's shouldn't be relying on the pick tracker then just fucking bin the thing. What use is it to have someone update a list you are told not to trust anyway?

RETIRED

***notorioustig*** · 04-23-2019, 01:05 AM

I think as a GM there is a responsibility to keep on top of your picks as much as possible, and all of us do, but at times a pick can get lost in the shuffle. I was punished last week for double-trading a pick, and same thing - pick tracker wasn't updated and the deal was time-sensitive, so I rushed through it. And that's not even me blaming the previous pick tracker - I made a mistake, no question. Shit happens and occasionally a pick slips through the cracks, which is why this type of punishment doesn't really happen all that often and is not limited to poor GMs (of which there are none), but at some point the entire purpose of a Pick Tracker position is either a shared resource between GMs and HO that's reliable or GMs need to keep their own records elsewhere and the pick tracker is for HO to make their draft lists once a season. The pick tracker was not up to date in the two months between trade and draft. At that point, kind of easy to see where something might go wrong. So much focus right now is on correctly allocating blame and "who fucked up" rather than fairness - COL lost a pick with no return, STL wasn't trying to screw them at all, there were outside reasons why the event happened the way it did, and COL should be compensated with a pick. I really don't see why it needs to be more complicated than that

ztevans · 04-23-2019, 01:07 AM

04-23-2019, 01:05 AMnotorioustig Wrote: I think as a GM there is a responsibility to keep on top of your picks as much as possible, and all of us do, but at times a pick can get lost in the shuffle. I was punished last week for double-trading a pick, and same thing - pick tracker wasn't updated and the deal was time-sensitive, so I rushed through it. And that's not even me blaming the previous pick tracker - I made a mistake, no question. Shit happens and occasionally a pick slips through the cracks, which is why this type of punishment doesn't really happen all that often and is not limited to poor GMs (of which there are none), but at some point the entire purpose of a Pick Tracker position is either a shared resource between GMs and HO that's reliable or GMs need to keep their own records elsewhere and the pick tracker is for HO to make their draft lists once a season. The pick tracker was not up to date in the two months between trade and draft. At that point, kind of easy to see where something might go wrong. So much focus right now is on correctly allocating blame and "who fucked up" rather than fairness - COL lost a pick with no return, STL wasn't trying to screw them at all, there were outside reasons why the event happened the way it did, and COL should be compensated with a pick. I really don't see why it needs to be more complicated than that

nour · 04-23-2019, 01:08 AM

>GMs need to keep track of their picks instead of relying on the pick tracker
>GMs use the pick track to keep track of their picks

You just can’t win as an SMJHL GM in the era of the current HO

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

ToeDragon84 · 04-23-2019, 01:11 AM

Why isn't there a punishment for the player STL took with that pick?

ztevans · 04-23-2019, 01:13 AM

04-23-2019, 01:11 AMToeDragon84 Wrote: Why isn't there a punishment for the player STL took with that pick?

Because getting drafted by STL is punishment enough amirite HEYOOOOOOOO *runs away*

Avakael · 04-23-2019, 01:15 AM

04-23-2019, 01:11 AMToeDragon84 Wrote: Why isn't there a punishment for the player STL took with that pick?

This. They have probably ~200 TPE, so they should be issued a roughly ~500 TPE penalty.

JNH · 04-23-2019, 01:35 AM

04-23-2019, 01:08 AMnour Wrote: >GMs need to keep track of their picks instead of relying on the pick tracker
>GMs use the pick track to keep track of their picks

You just can’t win as an SMJHL GM in the era of the current HO

wait what

They can't win because the 2nd part is exactly what HO is saying not to do. Keep track of picks instead of relying on pick tracker --> so obviously don't use the pick tracker to keep track of your picks. If they can't win in this situation, it's not cause of current HO it's cause this is a terrible argument.

I'm all for COL getting some sort of compensation here as they weren't completely at fault but what??

JNH · 04-23-2019, 01:35 AM

04-23-2019, 01:13 AMztevans Wrote:
04-23-2019, 01:11 AMToeDragon84 Wrote: Why isn't there a punishment for the player STL took with that pick?

Because getting drafted by STL is punishment enough amirite HEYOOOOOOOO *runs away*

Yup, I hate winning. Must be the worst Aggrieved

JNH · 04-23-2019, 01:37 AM

also HO should make a clear distinction here, either GM's:

- only rely on the pick tracker and aren't responsible for tracking their own picks
- do not rely on the pick tracker whatsoever and are the only ones responsible for ensuring that they own all of their picks

this will stop these situations where we're trying to assign a piece of the blame to 5 different parties, instead it's either they fulfilled their responsibility or didn't.

nour · 04-23-2019, 01:40 AM

04-23-2019, 01:35 AMJNH Wrote:
04-23-2019, 01:08 AMnour Wrote: >GMs need to keep track of their picks instead of relying on the pick tracker
>GMs use the pick track to keep track of their picks

You just can’t win as an SMJHL GM in the era of the current HO

wait what

They can't win because the 2nd part is exactly what HO is saying not to do. Keep track of picks instead of relying on pick tracker --> so obviously don't use the pick tracker to keep track of your picks. If they can't win in this situation, it's not cause of current HO it's cause this is a terrible argument.

I'm all for COL getting some sort of compensation here as they weren't completely at fault but what??

If we’re paying a dude every season to do literally one job, that job being compiling a public resource for picks so that we don’t lose track of which pick is where, and then say GMs can’t use that as a viable resource, why have a pick tracker? I’m not trying to fight, but it was obvious a very long time ago that its difficult for GMs to keep track of picks, and the reason the pick tracker job was initially instated was to help make it easier for GMs to follow the paths of their picks, and have a resource to take note of in the event of trades.

What is the pick tracker’s purpose for compiling what is supposed to be a reliable resource of which pick is where, if the GMs shouldn’t use it as a point of reference? Its a useless job by that point

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

JNH · 04-23-2019, 01:49 AM

04-23-2019, 01:40 AMnour Wrote:
04-23-2019, 01:35 AMJNH Wrote: wait what

They can't win because the 2nd part is exactly what HO is saying not to do. Keep track of picks instead of relying on pick tracker --> so obviously don't use the pick tracker to keep track of your picks. If they can't win in this situation, it's not cause of current HO it's cause this is a terrible argument.

I'm all for COL getting some sort of compensation here as they weren't completely at fault but what??

If we’re paying a dude every season to do literally one job, that job being compiling a public resource for picks so that we don’t lose track of which pick is where, and then say GMs can’t use that as a viable resource, why have a pick tracker? I’m not trying to fight, but it was obvious a very long time ago that its difficult for GMs to keep track of picks, and the reason the pick tracker job was initially instated was to help make it easier for GMs to follow the paths of their picks, and have a resource to take note of in the event of trades.

What is the pick tracker’s purpose for compiling what is supposed to be a reliable resource of which pick is where, if the GMs shouldn’t use it as a point of reference? Its a useless job by that point

Okay, this makes sense and I'm on board here with a lot of what you say.

I said shortly after that HO needs to clarify what they want here. They've said that GM's are responsible for ensuring that they own their own picks etc. and in that case they need to make it clear that draft pick tracker is just something that is a tool for the public/for double checking but not to be relied upon. Clearly there's a misunderstanding there and it's causing a lot of issues. I wouldn't say draft pick tracker is useless outside of a resource for GM's, I personally like to know what picks various teams own and check it every now and then and I'm sure many other members have used it as a tool as well (e.g for writing media articles).

As a GM, I relied pretty heavily on the draft pick tracker but that was the agreed upon standard back then. It seems HO is moving away from that now, which is fine as long as they clarify that the draft pick tracker is not to be relied upon whatsoever nor will it be an admissible reason for making a mistake.

nour · 04-23-2019, 01:49 AM

Here is the original hiring post for the first SMJHL pick tracker, take note of the wording:

Original Pick Tracker Hiring Post

storm states pretty clearly, at the creation of the job that this resource is to be updated whenever there’s a transaction “since we need to make sure it's always up to date for our GM's”.

There’s just not really any denying it. Yeah maybe Colorado should have tracked their pick better, but I’m willing to bet this whole debacle doesn’t happen with an updated pick tracker, which is clearly meant to be the primary resource for SMJHL GMs to refer to so they can keep track of their picks. The pick tracker has a clear purpose, its not stupid for Colorado management to rely on the site pick tracker when that was the entire purpose of it’s institution as a job

**First GM in SMJHL history to win 3 Four Star Cups back-to-back-to-back**

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