07-18-2019, 04:04 PMjRuutu Wrote: But is that person who says those things going to actually stop you from doing what you want? If one person is able to stop you from doing what you want simply by saying you don´t belong where you are going - is it possible that the chances of you actually making it is not that high? How is it possible that one person can stop you with his/her words?
i mean your entire argument is that PenKnight got stopped from doing what he wants by people with their words so I think it's pretty reasonable to see how this could happen if a member feels unwelcome
But it´s just one person - in this case PK. Only way I could see someone feeling unwelcome is the same reaction or volume of it, but supporting PK.
07-18-2019, 04:15 PMsköldpaddor Wrote:
07-18-2019, 04:04 PMjRuutu Wrote: But is that person who says those things going to actually stop you from doing what you want? If one person is able to stop you from doing what you want simply by saying you don´t belong where you are going - is it possible that the chances of you actually making it is not that high? How is it possible that one person can stop you with his/her words?
It isn't just about "that person." And honestly, it's not even really about me personally, it's about setting the standard for the culture we want to exist in, so maybe someday my daughter doesn't have to hear some guy tell her that she shouldn't pursue her dream job. Maybe this one guy being an asshat isn't going to actually change my life, but when we're surrounded by that kind of attitude, how do we choose which people to call out and which ones not to? It's about drawing a line and saying "this attitude is not okay and I am not going to be silent and shrug it off and pretend it is okay just so I don't make somebody feel bad about their antiquated bigoted views." If we don't call it out when we see it, we send the message that it's okay, or at the very least that it isn't something we're willing to stand up for. Why should this guy get a free pass (especially when he has demonstrated that he is absolutely unwilling to admit that he might be wrong about this, and just decided to double down and say even worse things when he was called out)?
There is always going to be people who say you can´t or should not do something - that is never going to change. I´m not a woman, so I don´t know, but here where I live and looking at it as a man - women are just fine. They can go on and do whatever they want, it´s actually the total opposite here - the young men are at disadvantage and left on their own, but nobody cares.
If you feel certain way about whatever - you should be able to say it. PK is not getting a free pass to say whatever, just like nobody is, but why do you need to group against him like this? Are you not worried or interested on what is soon left unsaid because someone does not want to deal with the same group?
07-18-2019, 04:09 PMcaltroit_red_flames Wrote: We all want PK to realize he's being sexist and stop but he's made it clear he won't. Which means he deserves all the shit he gets. You want to be ignorant? Sure whatever this forum generally allows for free speech as long as it's not a personal attack outside of reason. But you're gonna get shit on because you're being ignorant. Sexism isn't okay, full stop. You don't get a free pass from the consequences of being sexist because calling people out for being sexist is "mean". Fuck outta here with that shit. I'm past caring if he changes, I just want him to shut up. You see his sig? Fucking "Battle of the Sexes". He's being an asshat and proud of it.
The picture I got from this case is that PK was put on blast for his comments, people have been piling on him ever since and very little interaction between the two sides. Most people don´t care that much if he changes or not, I honestly believe that. SHL likes a good thunderdome show - now PK and his case has been the bigger one lately and what we have learned from this is very little. What I have learned is that if it´s even slightly controversial - do not say it in SHL.
The things he said and did would probably be questionable on some parts of 4chan lmao it’s not like this is an SHL problem. This is a him problem.
07-18-2019, 04:31 PMbluesfan55 Wrote: lowkey jruutu ruined what we had going in seattle ngl
As part of that Seattle team, I can safely say @jRuutu absolutely did not ruin that team. It wasn't a pretty incident, but it sure wasn't the catalyst.
I probably did overstate that but it certainly didn't help. We went from a promising young team to tanking in an alarmingly short time, partly due to that incident
ty to @High Stick King @EvilAllBran and @Ragnar for the sigs
07-18-2019, 04:57 PMjRuutu Wrote: If you feel certain way about whatever - you should be able to say it. PK is not getting a free pass to say whatever, just like nobody is, but why do you need to group against him like this? Are you not worried or interested on what is soon left unsaid because someone does not want to deal with the same group?
no because the only thing that's gonna get this type of reaction is misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. totally fine with those being left unsaid lol
07-18-2019, 04:34 PMwumaduce Wrote: @jRuutu how is it you'll fall on your sword to protect a guy who thinks women shouldn't be allowed in public forums, but you'll go out of your way to leak a joke (albeit tasteless) from a teammate in a discord server?
You and I have had our issues in the past (Renegade mentality), but I'm not trying to start shit with you here. I'm genuinely confused why this is the battle you pick. You're going to bat for a guy who turned tail and ran away from his multiple offensive comments, and who doubled down on it by making a battle of the sexes signature, and then promptly retired from two leagues he was in.
I understand wanting to stop people from bullying the guy who is basically bullying the women of the league, but where was this outrage with the King situation? Why didn't you go to bat for a guy who admitted to skirting the rules, but didn't offend anyone? I'm in no means insinuating, but I am curious if you share the same views as @PenKnight and that's why you're going so hard at this?
Again, I'm not trying to come at you offensively here. I'm sure it may seem like it. I don't want to turn this into a thunderdome post. If you don't want to answer here, feel free to pm me.
Why I´m commenting on PK case is simple - I don´t think he should have to leave SHL because of these comments. True, nobody forced him to leave, but when you look at some of the comments and just the sheer number of people who are against him - only one thing that is going to happen. That is a shame, SHL could be a place where you can openly talk about everything without automatically getting a group of people targeting you. Does that mean you should say absolutely everything that comes into your mind? No.
What comes to King case, I have not looked into it that much, but he abused the system and gained unfair advantage? Either created players on his own or had people he knew do that and collected the recruitment TPE? If so, he should punished. Take every single TPE away that he gained unfairly and that is that.
07-18-2019, 04:34 PMwumaduce Wrote: @jRuutu how is it you'll fall on your sword to protect a guy who thinks women shouldn't be allowed in public forums, but you'll go out of your way to leak a joke (albeit tasteless) from a teammate in a discord server?
You and I have had our issues in the past (Renegade mentality), but I'm not trying to start shit with you here. I'm genuinely confused why this is the battle you pick. You're going to bat for a guy who turned tail and ran away from his multiple offensive comments, and who doubled down on it by making a battle of the sexes signature, and then promptly retired from two leagues he was in.
I understand wanting to stop people from bullying the guy who is basically bullying the women of the league, but where was this outrage with the King situation? Why didn't you go to bat for a guy who admitted to skirting the rules, but didn't offend anyone? I'm in no means insinuating, but I am curious if you share the same views as @PenKnight and that's why you're going so hard at this?
Again, I'm not trying to come at you offensively here. I'm sure it may seem like it. I don't want to turn this into a thunderdome post. If you don't want to answer here, feel free to pm me.
Why I´m commenting on PK case is simple - I don´t think he should have to leave SHL because of these comments. True, nobody forced him to leave, but when you look at some of the comments and just the sheer number of people who are against him - only one thing that is going to happen. That is a shame, SHL could be a place where you can openly talk about everything without automatically getting a group of people targeting you. Does that mean you should say absolutely everything that comes into your mind? No.
What comes to King case, I have not looked into it that much, but he abused the system and gained unfair advantage? Either created players on his own or had people he knew do that and collected the recruitment TPE? If so, he should punished. Take every single TPE away that he gained unfairly and that is that.
"PK shouldn't be targeted for targeting a group of people"
07-18-2019, 04:57 PMjRuutu Wrote: If you feel certain way about whatever - you should be able to say it. PK is not getting a free pass to say whatever, just like nobody is, but why do you need to group against him like this? Are you not worried or interested on what is soon left unsaid because someone does not want to deal with the same group?
no because the only thing that's gonna get this type of reaction is misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. totally fine with those being left unsaid lol
This exactly. "Different opinions" are things like "I prefer everything bagels instead of plain bagels" not "this person is a lesser person and doesn't deserve the same opportunities and options in life because of their gender/race/orientation." That's not just having a different point of view, that's bigotry and when one person thinks it, maybe it doesn't seem to make a difference, but when more people are given the idea that it's okay, it starts to add up. The only way you change that BS as a society is to call it out when you see it. If he had just been willing to even remotely concede that this is a not-okay attitude to have, I would have been fully willing to move on from it, but he decided to be antagonistic and belligerent instead, so I am under no obligation to sacrifice my principles and shut up just so he doesn't feel bad.
If he doesn't want to be labeled as and treated like a bigot, he should stop being a bigot.
07-18-2019, 04:34 PMwumaduce Wrote: @jRuutu how is it you'll fall on your sword to protect a guy who thinks women shouldn't be allowed in public forums, but you'll go out of your way to leak a joke (albeit tasteless) from a teammate in a discord server?
You and I have had our issues in the past (Renegade mentality), but I'm not trying to start shit with you here. I'm genuinely confused why this is the battle you pick. You're going to bat for a guy who turned tail and ran away from his multiple offensive comments, and who doubled down on it by making a battle of the sexes signature, and then promptly retired from two leagues he was in.
I understand wanting to stop people from bullying the guy who is basically bullying the women of the league, but where was this outrage with the King situation? Why didn't you go to bat for a guy who admitted to skirting the rules, but didn't offend anyone? I'm in no means insinuating, but I am curious if you share the same views as @PenKnight and that's why you're going so hard at this?
Again, I'm not trying to come at you offensively here. I'm sure it may seem like it. I don't want to turn this into a thunderdome post. If you don't want to answer here, feel free to pm me.
Why I´m commenting on PK case is simple - I don´t think he should have to leave SHL because of these comments. True, nobody forced him to leave, but when you look at some of the comments and just the sheer number of people who are against him - only one thing that is going to happen. That is a shame, SHL could be a place where you can openly talk about everything without automatically getting a group of people targeting you. Does that mean you should say absolutely everything that comes into your mind? No.
What comes to King case, I have not looked into it that much, but he abused the system and gained unfair advantage? Either created players on his own or had people he knew do that and collected the recruitment TPE? If so, he should punished. Take every single TPE away that he gained unfairly and that is that.
He made statements, multiple, that most of the league didn't agree with. He never once showed up in the 30+ page thread, nor did make any posts about it on the forums. All the community has to go on is some screenshots. Rather than explain, defend, talk about, try to learn from, fake an apology, any kind of action he could have taken to make it all blow over - he ghosted from the site for a few days, and then retired without ever addressing his comments. He ostracized himself from the community, and then put himself into a self imposed exile by retiring without comment. The few comments he did make were to turn himself into a victim.
I see where you're coming from, and thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I feel that PencilSquire did this to himself by ignoring the outcry at what he said. Personally, I thought he was annoying well before he made his unpopular opinion known. But I don't think he was bullied into leaving.
07-18-2019, 04:44 PMbluesfan55 Wrote: The fact that someone I used to respect is now defending pk makes me sad
Sure, we may have pushed that dipshit away, but Cal said the truth: he wasn't willing to change. I don't think anyone wants to push away anyone else, but when you say shit like he said, and then double down on that, get the fuck out of my league. I'm lucky enough to have women (ej and peebs) as my teammates, and I'm pretty sure they'd rip pk to shreds if he didn't leave the pride discord first because we have women on our team (and jiggly). Why anyone would defend him, to me, is inconcievable.
I´m not defending PK, just openly wondering why so many blindly throw rocks at the guy and don´t feel bad at all when he leaves the site. Was everything done correctly when that is the end result? Is the standard now to thunderdome the shit out of anyone who says something controversial or idiotic and then keep going until the user leaves?
07-18-2019, 04:49 PMSymmetrik Wrote:
07-18-2019, 04:37 PMjRuutu Wrote: What I have learned is that if it´s even slightly controversial - do not say it in SHL.
Don't say it anywhere. This isn't an SHL thing. Dude said women were "invading sports". Like this isn't some SHL only issue. If you said that IRL you'd get as much shit as PK got here.
This is just awful takes
Could be true, still don´t believe you will get same treatment IRL if you yell these things to a crowd of people.
07-18-2019, 04:37 PMjRuutu Wrote: The picture I got from this case is that PK was put on blast for his comments, people have been piling on him ever since and very little interaction between the two sides. Most people don´t care that much if he changes or not, I honestly believe that. SHL likes a good thunderdome show - now PK and his case has been the bigger one lately and what we have learned from this is very little. What I have learned is that if it´s even slightly controversial - do not say it in SHL.
The things he said and did would probably be questionable on some parts of 4chan lmao it’s not like this is an SHL problem. This is a him problem.
It is a him problem, but the comments in my opinion still are not worth the reaction he got from the community.
07-18-2019, 05:05 PMhotdog Wrote:
07-18-2019, 04:57 PMjRuutu Wrote: If you feel certain way about whatever - you should be able to say it. PK is not getting a free pass to say whatever, just like nobody is, but why do you need to group against him like this? Are you not worried or interested on what is soon left unsaid because someone does not want to deal with the same group?
no because the only thing that's gonna get this type of reaction is misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. totally fine with those being left unsaid lol
Those cards are pulled out right away and too easily. If something is even borderline controversial - automatically you have certain label on your head.
07-18-2019, 05:25 PMwumaduce Wrote: He made statements, multiple, that most of the league didn't agree with. He never once showed up in the 30+ page thread, nor did make any posts about it on the forums. All the community has to go on is some screenshots. Rather than explain, defend, talk about, try to learn from, fake an apology, any kind of action he could have taken to make it all blow over - he ghosted from the site for a few days, and then retired without ever addressing his comments. He ostracized himself from the community, and then put himself into a self imposed exile by retiring without comment. The few comments he did make were to turn himself into a victim.
I see where you're coming from, and thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I feel that PencilSquire did this to himself by ignoring the outcry at what he said. Personally, I thought he was annoying well before he made his unpopular opinion known. But I don't think he was bullied into leaving.
And we don´t know if he wanted to explain or not, maybe he wanted, but saw the comments and decided there is no point when so many have already made their mind?
When you look at his comments, is it possible that he was just joking around? Is he really so against women as many speculate? We don´t know, I don´t know. Were they good jokes, jokes at all or something I laught at? Not really, but I think you should be able to joke around about everything and also, if you truly and seriously feel something is like this or that - you should be able to say it without the whole community attacking you.
Could have handled it better or in a different way, but not everybody know how to or don´t even want to. What is done - is done and they move on.
07-18-2019, 05:42 PMjRuutu Wrote: Those cards are pulled out right away and too easily. If something is even borderline controversial - automatically you have certain label on your head.
What he said was not borderline controversial.
You're really telling me that saying "women are invading sports" is borderline. It's straight up wrong.
07-18-2019, 05:42 PMjRuutu Wrote: Those cards are pulled out right away and too easily. If something is even borderline controversial - automatically you have certain label on your head.
What he said was not borderline controversial.
You're really telling me that saying "women are invading sports" is borderline. It's straight up wrong.
But the context is hockey and/or hockey broadcasting/shows? No?
If that is a direct quote: how can you be upset at that line - it´s clearly incorrect? Women have been playing sports for who knows how long, they even have their own series and competitions?
Like me saying: ´Cars should not fly´ or ´bananas are like cucumbers´.
Correct reaction: Ok? What SHL did: WTF, how can you say that?
07-18-2019, 06:40 PM(This post was last modified: 07-18-2019, 06:53 PM by Samsung virtual assistant.)
The SHL does have a mob mentality, however this time im not really against it based on his comments.
I have the mentality that its better to let idiots spout their nonsense instead of everybody ganging up/trying to silence them, that way everyone can see how dumb they are. Trying to silence people are just going to give them a victim complex, something that has been obvious here in Sweden recently in the swedish elections the last couple of years.
I agree with the point made in the media about the mob mentality JRuutu, i dont agree with the case though. IMO just take the L before its too late, it can only get worse from here.
jRuutu![[Image: owenm43.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/owenm43.gif)
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sköldpaddor![[Image: gunnarsoderberg.gif]](https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/gunnarsoderberg.gif)
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: .![[Image: FJPVyys.png]](https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/WBBcSzES6gezvfPy3E6E-vuE34bnIq1FWhWm9qpWHIE/https/i.imgur.com/FJPVyys.png)
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