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Remove enforcers
#61

08-02-2019, 10:41 AMBaelor Swift Wrote: Orrrrrrrr just don't approve any first gen enforcers until they have spoken with a rookie mentor about it?

My understanding is that is what happened here. At least, I know the mentors reached out and cautioned against the difficulties and undesirability of the enforcer build.

Aside from that (a general comment in response to what was said here, not responding to you) wouldn't getting rid of the enforcer build just add to the issue that everyone has with STHS shoe-horning people into the same build? Getting rid of the one truly unique build we have just feeds back into the echo chamber of "STHS makes everyone the same"

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#62

08-02-2019, 10:41 AMBaelor Swift Wrote: Orrrrrrrr just don't approve any first gen enforcers until they have spoken with a rookie mentor about it?

Because it is a pretty limiting build in terms of the direction you can take your player and it's hard to know the implications of that if you aren't familiar with the sim engine.

Mentors did speak to people, we explained that it would be a very limited build as far as points and that it would hurt their draft stock and playing time (especially one of the builds that had like 90 fighting or something like that).  Pris gave the approver a short list of things to look out for (enforcer, defense/wingers putting in face off tpe, no points into defense/skating/passing/scoring, etc) and then refer them to the mentors to discuss the build before it got approved.  So we tried...

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#63

do player types even matter besides what strengths and weaknesses they give you, like is there a difference between an offensive forward or two-way forward and a playmaker forward or sniper forward if they have the exact same strengths and weaknesses. The only ones that are different are power forward and enforcer forward and power forward still gives you options when building your player.

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#64

08-02-2019, 11:46 AMefiug Wrote: do player types even matter besides what strengths and weaknesses they give you, like is there a difference between an offensive forward or two-way forward and a playmaker forward or sniper forward if they have the exact same strengths and weaknesses. The only ones that are different are power forward and enforcer forward and power forward still gives you options when building your player.

There's an enforcer box on player pages in Simon T that affect how they play

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#65

08-02-2019, 11:12 AMEggy216 Wrote:
08-02-2019, 10:41 AMBaelor Swift Wrote: Orrrrrrrr just don't approve any first gen enforcers until they have spoken with a rookie mentor about it?

My understanding is that is what happened here. At least, I know the mentors reached out and cautioned against the difficulties and undesirability of the enforcer build.

Aside from that (a general comment in response to what was said here, not responding to you) wouldn't getting rid of the enforcer build just add to the issue that everyone has with STHS shoe-horning people into the same build? Getting rid of the one truly unique build we have just feeds back into the echo chamber of "STHS makes everyone the same"

Ive always thought a better way to stop the shoehorning would be only 2 strengths and then 2 weaknesses

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#66

I mentioned this a while back.

We don't need to get rid of it, just change it a bit.

We could just give them regular caps, just toggle the discipline low and whatnot. You have no variety is the problem, you're trapped as an enforcer.

Strength: Checking/Fighting/Strength
Weakness: Scoring

I dont mind the scoring weakness or whatever, but maybe just teak the strengths and remove one and change it to 'Attribute of your choice'.



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#67
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2019, 02:11 PM by jRuutu.)

Tweak it instead! Some good suggestions here already, enforcer is first in my ´what to recreate as next´ - list. Would be a shame if it´s removed completely.

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#68
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2019, 02:39 PM by Guriinwoodo.)

08-02-2019, 11:12 AMEggy216 Wrote:
08-02-2019, 10:41 AMBaelor Swift Wrote: Orrrrrrrr just don't approve any first gen enforcers until they have spoken with a rookie mentor about it?

My understanding is that is what happened here. At least, I know the mentors reached out and cautioned against the difficulties and undesirability of the enforcer build.

Aside from that (a general comment in response to what was said here, not responding to you) wouldn't getting rid of the enforcer build just add to the issue that everyone has with STHS shoe-horning people into the same build? Getting rid of the one truly unique build we have just feeds back into the echo chamber of "STHS makes everyone the same"

Hey! Someone directed me to this thread. I recently retired Doug after realizing that full on enforcers actively harm a team. No mentor reached out to me, I didn't find out that enforcers aren't feasible until people explained it to me when I went undrafted. I think it was a perfect storm of some people knowing me from being HO in the PBE (and thus assuming I'd get picked), and other people having never heard of me. Later on I got DMs from some of my friends saying they thought I was already picked up, DMs from other folks saying they'd pick me up if I recreate. The two DMs I got before the draft were mass scouting messages from GMs, which were sent within 12 hours of the draft. That's when I knew it'd be better to just retire, so I did! Definitely would've retired before the draft had I known beforehand!

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#69

08-02-2019, 02:37 PMGuriinwoodo Wrote:
08-02-2019, 11:12 AMEggy216 Wrote: My understanding is that is what happened here. At least, I know the mentors reached out and cautioned against the difficulties and undesirability of the enforcer build.

Aside from that (a general comment in response to what was said here, not responding to you) wouldn't getting rid of the enforcer build just add to the issue that everyone has with STHS shoe-horning people into the same build? Getting rid of the one truly unique build we have just feeds back into the echo chamber of "STHS makes everyone the same"

Hey! Someone directed me to this thread. I recently retired Doug after realizing that full on enforcers actively harm a team. No mentor reached out to me, I didn't find out that enforcers aren't feasible until people explained it to me when I went undrafted. I think it was a perfect storm of some people knowing me from being HO in the PBE (and thus assuming I'd get picked), and other people having never heard of me. Later on I got DMs from some of my friends saying they thought I was already picked up, DMs from other folks saying they'd pick me up if I recreate. The two DMs I got before the draft were mass scouting messages from GMs, which were sent within 12 hours of the draft. That's when I knew it'd be better to just retire, so I did! Definitely would've retired before the draft had I known beforehand!

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#70
(This post was last modified: 08-02-2019, 03:53 PM by Zach.)

I say just make it possible for minor injuries to occur. 1-2 maybe 3 games or so. Encourages people to get their strength up and gives enforcers and power forwards more of a role.

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#71

08-02-2019, 03:45 PMZach Wrote: I say just make it possible for minor injuries to occur. 1-2 maybe 3 games or so. Encourages people to get their strength up and gives enforcers and power forwards more of a role.

Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to really be possible with STHS

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#72

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#73

08-02-2019, 05:04 PMEggy216 Wrote:
08-02-2019, 03:45 PMZach Wrote: I say just make it possible for minor injuries to occur. 1-2 maybe 3 games or so. Encourages people to get their strength up and gives enforcers and power forwards more of a role.

Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to really be possible with STHS

Guessing the simmer would have to do it manually(i'm only assuming i own SimonT but i never did much in it)

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#74

08-02-2019, 06:01 PMスウェグキング Wrote:
08-02-2019, 05:04 PMEggy216 Wrote: Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to really be possible with STHS

Guessing the simmer would have to do it manually(i'm only assuming i own SimonT but i never did much in it)

@JayWhy could probably shed some light on this (why short term injuries don't work in STHS) for both of us.

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#75

08-02-2019, 06:15 PMEggy216 Wrote:
08-02-2019, 06:01 PMスウェグキング Wrote: Guessing the simmer would have to do it manually(i'm only assuming i own SimonT but i never did much in it)

@JayWhy could probably shed some light on this (why short term injuries don't work in STHS) for both of us.

Injuries are all injuries. You can't turn on just the little ones. If you do, you open up to season ending injuries in game 1. Then why does that person stay active? I went inactive in S8 when Nero forgot to turn off injuries and I got a season ender arouns 13 games in to my rookie season. All it does is hurt activity to have injuries.

Add in that, with injuries, you're going to be having to turn on fatigue. Even with 99 durability, 99 endurance, with our small league and shortened schedule, we end up with entire teams needing fully replaced due to exhaustion in 3-5 games.

I could continue to rant on and on, but basically: injuries are absolutely horrible in sim leagues and should never be considered.

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