SMJHL Awards Committee Head Press Conference
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hhh81
SHL GM Brennan Lee Mulligan Stan
Hey all, you know me: hhh81, your SMJHL Awards Head. @"jfisherr" and @DaftRaincloud are going to bring you a great show on Monday. I saw some questions in the show thread. I responded to some great questions from Jakub, but I wanted to give a formalized chance for anyone else to ask me the questions on their mind!
Thank you again to my committee for putting forth another good season's work! @39alaska39 @Tomen @Huck24 @tedlamotors @kenvald @puolivalmiste @Gwdjohnson @charlieconway. Also a thanks to @aaronwilson for their advanced stats work; your hard work helps us every season. Without further ado, fire away. 01-17-2020, 10:20 AMGeekusoid Wrote: Why are only skaters considered for ROTY? Is there a bias against goaltenders? </sarcasm>Hi Geekusoid! Thanks for the question. Goaltenders do get considered for ROTY. Other than last season, I believe a rookie goalie has received votes each year I've been awards head. They have at least for S49 and S51. I explained a bit in the awards thread regarding this year and Beibitzhanov. He appeared on 5 of 9 awards ballots, but mostly in a second or third place spot. This put him behind the point totals of the three finalists for our awards committee process, where all three finalists for the Anrikkanen received at least one first place vote. How the committee works is that each committee member submits a ballot of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place players. First place receives 5 "votes", 2nd 3 votes, and 3rd 1 vote in the ballots. I calculate the total scores from there and we pick our finalists based on natural breakdown of the tiers. Some years, that's 4 people as finalists, others only three. I think we can do better at making sure we're giving goalies a fair shot for awards like the Fallah and Anrikkanen. I plan to discuss with my team after the season ways we can try to balance that out. We use aaronwilson's advanced stats, which helps with some aspects of making the best decisions (esp with a close heat like this year where there were two clear top options). I think we can do a little better at making sure we're sussing out how those stats can help goalies head to head with skaters. I support the decisions my team has made the last few seasons, while also being open to ways we can do better. 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: Do you have to give an explanation on the awards committee on why you are voting for someone still? Did you guys ever think about taking some of the highlights from these explanations and leaking them to whoever hosts it? Like for example, tomen votes for Cal Labovitch number one for rookie of the year and says something like “I voted Labovitch because of x, y, and z” and Alaska votes for Labovitch to for “a, b, and c” and everyone else votes for Labovitch because he’ll yeah big skree there lol. Anyways fast forward to the awards show, and let’s say fish is doing it because he is. You send fish the most glowing quotes from actually award votes to put into the award show.Yes, we rotate through awards where committee members have to justify 3-4 awards each season. Each award comes up as needing to be justified once every three seasons in that way. And yes, I have been passing some of the notes off to @"jfisherr" and @DaftRaincloud for their awards show. They also have read access on our discussion Discord, so they can see what we're talking about leading up to the ballots. I share a lot of the info from those justifications with fish, and he's free to use them Also this season @BadWolf sent over a full script with finalists and justifications for the Armia, which I'm really excited about (and fish is hyped for less work!) 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: I do not know if you already do this, they did not do this in the past but I’ve been inactive for a bit. I also do not know if you require explanations because I don’t think we did in the past but I absolutely think we should. We do require explanations, but not for every award every season. Some of our committee members, most notably @Gwdjohnson really put their all into their justifications for their awards, and write a good 1/2 page to 3/4 of a page per award. With the time crunch we're regularly under to get awards out before the next season starts (in part hoping for aaronwilson's stats, which he can't do until after the season, I would not be in favor of asking committee members to justify every single award every season. I fear that would end up with 1-2 sentences per award, rather than the deep engagement I've seen from many members. 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: Do you take into consideration a teams success in evaluating individual performance? Like do you take notice that the worst the team in the league always got the most shot blocks lolI definitely do. For example, I left a lot of Vancouver players off my award ballot this season. This is because, when you look at the scoring, their top line, both in raw stats and advanced stats, dominated across the board. When I see a single line, on the league's worst team, putting up big numbers and leading the league in a lot of advanced stat categories, I discount it a little bit. The line is more than the sum of its parts, and it's hard to pick out one player as "most worthy" of an individual award like MVP or Defensive Forward of the Year when they were so good together. I also have a really hard time giving MVP to a player on a team at the bottom of the standings. I don't force this on the committee, because I want each person to share what they value most. We've streamlined a lot (most notably the Onoprienko), but more on that later. 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: In your own personal opinions, do you believe the awards to be too offensively biased? Do you think it makes it so that we have a league full of players who are all snipers or playmakers and not enough build diversity and checkers?I think some could be, sure. MVP is a hard one, because it's hard to justify a forward to win the award who hasn't put up at least a decent amount of points. We've had defensemen and goalies get votes for the award based on their overall importance/performance beyond pure points. I try to look beyond just scoring (as other committee members do) to see other aspects of overall importance. I will give more credence to a player, for example, who played heavy minutes on both special teams units, and had good individual (and team) performance there, but might have had 10 points fewer than a player that put up 63 points on another team to lead the league. The context matters. Last year, Jagger Fouquette literally put up an inhuman campaign offensively that made it hard to justify anyone else as the MVP. I think the real issue on your second question is less about what's valued by awards and what is valued by the sim engine. There is no build diversity in STHS, nor can there be with how we've used it. When only one build actually works with any consistency, it's hard to justify doing something off the wall. Every player needs high Defense. You can't have any success in STHS without putting points into DF, which harms the overall versatility of players. 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: What are you most excited about with the change to FHM?I am so unbelievably excited for the switch to FHM as a player. It's going to allow for so much more build diversity and nuance, especially regarding how a player is being used. Now, we're literally throwing shit at a wall and hoping it sticks (regarding GMing). I'm thrilled to see how people can build more uniquely, and I think it'll be great for the league. The only other thing that could fix build diversity would be an adjustment to the update scale. I also know that brings many other unintended issues with it. Build diversity will be very important to the league. I hate that right now, there's no incentive to player combinations or different roles. You can play anyone with anyone (or anywhere). I'll be interested to see life-long checking forwards' lives in FHM, and how that resets the league economy. 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: Do you foresee any areas lacking in award representation? Do you think we could hand out more awards to encourage better build diversity? Do you think people should be awarded tpe in milestones because of winning awards? Do you think we should have more or less awards to regulate this amount of tpe or are we in a goldielocks (spelling?) zone right now with our awards?I think there are SHL awards that are sorely needed. That there isn't a Most Sportsmanlike award is frustrating to me, so I'm glad the SMJHL has it to recognize people breaking form the "score goals, hit things" meta that plagues the SHL. I really like that the SMJHL also has "Best Defensive Forward" rather than "Best Two-Way Forward." That really gets to the core of how a player is being used, even if they aren't scoring well. It doesn't matter. I don't think there are any other awards that make sense for the SMJHL to add. I'd be open to a discussion if people have ideas, but I think we have the right set up after 51 years, at least at this point. There's nothing else we're not capturing, other than best two-way forward, which I think it's wildly overrated and broken in STHS. Maybe the switch to FHM would improve that. Maybe follow the SHL's lead by adding a second best defenseman award (best dman and best defensive dman). I haven't given much thought to milestone TPE for awards, largely because I forgot that was a thing. I would have to think more about this before I give an answer. 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: What are some the most impressive performances you’ve seen as an awards committee? How do you feel about the new cap in SMJHL and what it might have done to formerly held records? Idk how they decided to increase the cap but if you got a vote what would you vote, 350 or the 425?It's hard to beat Jagger Fouquette's performance last year. 72 points? That was stupid. Emiko Spector (@"MantoRune") put up a two-year stretch for the ages in S49 and S50 as a goaltender. It'll be awhile before we see that kind of performance again, though I think someone else will ask me to elaborate more on Spector, a little later. Nicolaj Muller also had a 2-3 year stretch for the record books with St. Louis, that's worth recognition. There's one other person, Kaspars Claude, who I should take a moment to mention. The dude was on three straight Four Star Cup Champion teams, and got votes for playoffs MVP each season. With how weird the life cycle of an SMJHL player is, that's unheard of for an active player. I doubt we see that again. Also, I had no say on the 350 to 425 switch. I don't think the 425 switch is a bad call (though I have my concerns about the legitimacy of team's chances of winning championships now without a 425 capped goalie. I don't think it's going to happen in STHS. Players are going to stay down for 3-4 seasons, and that can get stale. We're never going to see my Simulation Minor Hockey League come to fruition for 350-500 TPE players, and the reduction of the SMJHL for 1-2 season players. I think that could help some people's concerns. I still support the 425 cap for the SMJHL as we know it. 01-17-2020, 02:14 PMZoone16 Wrote: Are you guys still using the ballot system I put in place a while back? If no, what is the new system you're using and why is it better?1. Yes, we are. Little different for Most Underrated 2. I saw in S48 we had a problem. 17 players were nominated for the Onoprienko, with 7 different first place people, and no one got more than 8 total votes. We had to do a revote with the top 9 (first place vote getters + anyone appearing on multiple ballots), and got a clear winner, but I didn't like it. Starting in S49, I asked SMJHL GMs to nominate a player from their team they believed to be the most underrated, and give us 2-3 sentences on why they believed that. This let us see some players the team valued, not just on the ice, but for their off ice/LR performances. We've used that ever since. GMs may nominate (some choose not to) a player, then the committee uses that short list of 7-10 players to vote on the award. This has tightened up what we're considering "most underrated and got some better discussions based on what GMs share. I think I've been pretty clear about this change, but clearly it may not have been. 3. Meg just asked a similar question. I think what we have is good. I'm glad the SMJHL has Best Defensive Forward instead of Two-Way Forward. The only other award that might be worth considering, in my opinion, would be a Best Defensive Defenseman, to follow the lead of the SHL. Under the Nobody regime, it was clear no one else had power, so I'm not even sure if I get to change awards without HO approval. We can visit on this, but I think what we have currently, both in content and number, is good. 4. Nope, I like what we've got 5. Possibly. We'll look into it more, to make sure we're getting to the best discussions. I have an example of a goalie who was really good, but I personally discounted in awards due to team context. I fucking love Emiko Spector as a player and MantoRune as a person. There's a reason we traded for her and she's stuck around in COL. She put up two really good seasons from S49-S50. However, she personally did not appear on my MVP ballots. Let me tell you why. Both seasons, she was playing in front of an offensive juggernaut, first with DET then with COL. My Colorado team ran three full lines deep in S50, with two full pairs of capped defense. The team in front of Emiko was really good, so I discount some of her all-star performance due to just how good the rest of her team was. I did similar things considering how good the Anchorage roster was this year, and trying to suss out what the reason for that was (and usually find myself asking me that question each season). Looking back, she should have probably gotten more votes for the Fallah than she did. We're gonna work on this. I support and believe in what we've been doing the last few seasons. We can also look how we might improve from good to great. 01-17-2020, 02:36 PMBDonini Wrote: Why is there no justice for Ursin?The three finalists had stronger seasons. I considered him for 3rd on my ballot ahead of Augustus Wang, but in the end decided the stats I was looking at leaned Wang over Zimmermann. 01-17-2020, 02:36 PMBDonini Wrote: Will the committee consider not allowing inactives to win awards at some point down the road? We already don't consider inactives for the awards we vote on. If an inactive has the highest goals or points, there's not much I can do about that. They're going to get that award, because that's not something I vote upon. Beyond that, I do a lot of work circling back to make sure the nominees are eligible (aka active). There are several cases over the last couple seasons where I've gone back to someone to tell them a player is ineligible, and to submit a new ballot. I usually even include them as a finalists if their inactive (and someone doesn't adjust their ballot). Please let me know if I've overlooked something! Thank you all for your questions and concerns! This press conference is closed. Quote:Ready for grading
Chevy
SMJHL HO PEANUT!
Why are only skaters considered for ROTY? Is there a bias against goaltenders? </sarcasm>
Vik
Registered Posting Freak
Do you have to give an explanation on the awards committee on why you are voting for someone still? Did you guys ever think about taking some of the highlights from these explanations and leaking them to whoever hosts it? Like for example, tomen votes for Cal Labovitch number one for rookie of the year and says something like “I voted Labovitch because of x, y, and z” and Alaska votes for Labovitch to for “a, b, and c” and everyone else votes for Labovitch because he’ll yeah big skree there lol. Anyways fast forward to the awards show, and let’s say fish is doing it because he is. You send fish the most glowing quotes from actually award votes to put into the award show.
I do not know if you already do this, they did not do this in the past but I’ve been inactive for a bit. I also do not know if you require explanations because I don’t think we did in the past but I absolutely think we should. More questions: Do you take into consideration a teams success in evaluating individual performance? Like do you take notice that the worst the team in the league always got the most shot blocks lol In your own personal opinions, do you believe the awards to be too offensively biased? Do you think it makes it so that we have a league full of players who are all snipers or playmakers and not enough build diversity and checkers? What are you most excited about with the change to FHM? Do you believe the move to FHM will allow for more build diversity? Do you think this is beneficial to the league? Do you foresee any areas lacking in award representation? Do you think we could hand out more awards to encourage better build diversity? Do you think people should be awarded tpe in milestones because of winning awards? Do you think we should have more or less awards to regulate this amount of tpe or are we in a goldielocks (spelling?) zone right now with our awards? What are some the most impressive performances you’ve seen as an awards committee? How do you feel about the new cap in SMJHL and what it might have done to formerly held records? Idk how they decided to increase the cap but if you got a vote what would you vote, 350 or the 425?
Need a sig :-/
Zoone16
Media Graders Loveable Buttnugget
Are you guys still using the ballot system I put in place a while back? If no, what is the new system you're using and why is it better?
Have you figured out a better criteria for selecting underrated players? Should SMJHL GMs be giving you a list of choices for this award instead? What additional awards do you think could be considered to be added? Similarly, are there any awards that you think should be changed/modified? Are goalies under represented in certain awards (underrated, roty, mvp, etc..)? If yes, do you have any potential solutions to address this issue in the future?
BDonini
Registered Posting Freak
Why is there no justice for Ursin?
Will the committee consider not allowing inactives to win awards at some point down the road? [pb]Four Star Cup Champion (GM S52)
[pb] S50 | Chicago Syndicate | N/A[/pbl]
mxman991
Registered Senior Member
Gwdjohnson
SHL GM siMp 01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: Do you take into consideration a teams success in evaluating individual performance? Like do you take notice that the worst the team in the league always got the most shot blocks lol Definitely for a lot of awards, personally speaking. A bit drunk and tired af but because of the nature of STHS I feel that it's an easy cop out to vote based on pure output, because the engine heavily favours 'big fish in small ponds', so to speak. Because of that, I have a bias towards players who perform well on teams that did very well because you can say the player was integral to their team's success, rather than them benefitting from basically everyone else sucking ass. That being said, I obviously look into more than just that and there's definitely cases where the player is just good enough for me to look past it (such as voting Fouquette for MVP when he broke the J points record in S50). For FHM, things make more sense and work very differently, so that mindset will quickly shift. Edit: yes I am hhh pleased to meet you
hhh81
SHL GM Brennan Lee Mulligan Stan 01-17-2020, 03:22 PMGwdjohnson Wrote:Damnit Gabe, you're not me!01-17-2020, 10:50 AMJakub Wrote: Do you take into consideration a teams success in evaluating individual performance? Like do you take notice that the worst the team in the league always got the most shot blocks lol Jokes aside, thanks for adding some conversation from your seat as a member. I can't speak for my committee, as they're all bright shining individuals with their own wants, dreams, and thoughts. I'm not tyrannical enough to tell them what they think, just how to vote properly. This is all totally an art, and it's hard to come up with answers everyone will like. We work hard, and I think our work speaks for itself. Updated to here!
hhh81
SHL GM Brennan Lee Mulligan Stan
DaftRaincloud
Registered Senior Member
Who is the most handsome of the awards show hosts?
[img=0x0]https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/glswenson.gif[/img] [img=0x0]https://sig.grumpybumpers.com/host/agentchadjohnson.gif[/img] |
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