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Mook · 01-29-2020, 07:11 PM

How about a revamp to the entire graphics system

500k per sig submitted, with up to an additional 1m in bonuses based on the ENTIRE submission for the week.

This idea is now copyrighted by me

***sve7en*** · 01-29-2020, 07:11 PM

The more responses I see the more the issue seems to be with grader interpretation of the scale. Everyone is grading differently.

Mook · 01-29-2020, 07:20 PM

01-29-2020, 07:11 PMsve7en Wrote: The more responses I see the more the issue seems to be with grader interpretation of the scale. Everyone is grading differently.

It's understandable that someones 4 is not someone elses 4, but a larger scale may help on narrowing the gap between their opinions

FlappyGiraffe · 01-29-2020, 07:37 PM

01-29-2020, 07:11 PMsve7en Wrote: The more responses I see the more the issue seems to be with grader interpretation of the scale. Everyone is grading differently.

A self grading system with the graders approving/altering them after review would be really cool imo. There'd be some people who try to take advantage but I'd imagine most would try and be honest. Definitely would clear up a lot of complaints about unfair grades anyway.

Mook · 01-29-2020, 07:39 PM

01-29-2020, 07:37 PMFlappyGiraffe Wrote:
01-29-2020, 07:11 PMsve7en Wrote: The more responses I see the more the issue seems to be with grader interpretation of the scale. Everyone is grading differently.

A self grading system with the graders approving/altering them after review would be really cool imo. There'd be some people who try to take advantage but I'd imagine most would try and be honest. Definitely would clear up a lot of complaints about unfair grades anyway.

I also copyright this before Flappy does

hewasajazzman · 01-29-2020, 09:20 PM

the biggest thing you gotta remember is that is a brand new grader. when i say brand new... i mean this user has been a graphics grader for legitimately less than a week. we as a department dont really have a process we go through with new graders... they apply, they get the job, and then we say “hey, you may start grading if you’d like.” we are always available for questions and advice on how to grade submissions if graders are stuck or unsure of themselves, but for the most part they are pretty good about figuring it out on their own. there will absolutely be missteps along the way, no doubt, it comes with the job. i dont even think the scale is much of an issue to be honest and in giving half grades we effectively have an x/10 system anyway. i do however believe payouts could use some revising though. the problem is that if we give too much for lower scoring submissions it will not push users to get better at graphics, which is what our goal is in the long run. there are solutions out there... but its nothing that any of us have thought of, all come to an agreement on, and said “this will work” because there is no definite answer. all we can do is try things out and see how they work and go from there.

Mook · 01-29-2020, 09:30 PM

01-29-2020, 09:20 PMhewasajazzman Wrote: the biggest thing you gotta remember is that is a brand new grader. when i say brand new... i mean this user has been a graphics grader for legitimately less than a week. we as a department dont really have a process we go through with new graders... they apply, they get the job, and then we say “hey, you may start grading if you’d like.” we are always available for questions and advice on how to grade submissions if graders are stuck or unsure of themselves, but for the most part they are pretty good about figuring it out on their own. there will absolutely be missteps along the way, no doubt, it comes with the job. i dont even think the scale is much of an issue to be honest and in giving half grades we effectively have an x/10 system anyway. i do however believe payouts could use some revising though. the problem is that if we give too much for lower scoring submissions it will not push users to get better at graphics, which is what our goal is in the long run. there are solutions out there... but its nothing that any of us have thought of, all come to an agreement on, and said “this will work” because there is no definite answer. all we can do is try things out and see how they work and go from there.

This is not a post ripping on the graders, please don't take it that way. This issue is not a new one and has been complained about a few times how the graphics world needs to be looked at.

Something needs to be done be it adding more ratings (1-6/7/8), or revamping it to either a "grade yourself and then it needs to be approved by a grader, or changed" or a "baseline payout of 300-500k for each sig and a bonus is awarded for the submission." I'm sure there are a few other ideas people have to make graphics work, why not set up a small group to brainstorm on how to make a new graphics system work, and then sort of present it to HO to see if they agree

hewasajazzman · 01-29-2020, 10:00 PM

01-29-2020, 09:30 PMMook Wrote:
01-29-2020, 09:20 PMhewasajazzman Wrote: the biggest thing you gotta remember is that is a brand new grader. when i say brand new... i mean this user has been a graphics grader for legitimately less than a week. we as a department dont really have a process we go through with new graders... they apply, they get the job, and then we say “hey, you may start grading if you’d like.” we are always available for questions and advice on how to grade submissions if graders are stuck or unsure of themselves, but for the most part they are pretty good about figuring it out on their own. there will absolutely be missteps along the way, no doubt, it comes with the job. i dont even think the scale is much of an issue to be honest and in giving half grades we effectively have an x/10 system anyway. i do however believe payouts could use some revising though. the problem is that if we give too much for lower scoring submissions it will not push users to get better at graphics, which is what our goal is in the long run. there are solutions out there... but its nothing that any of us have thought of, all come to an agreement on, and said “this will work” because there is no definite answer. all we can do is try things out and see how they work and go from there.

This is not a post ripping on the graders, please don't take it that way. This issue is not a new one and has been complained about a few times how the graphics world needs to be looked at.

Something needs to be done be it adding more ratings (1-6/7/8), or revamping it to either a "grade yourself and then it needs to be approved by a grader, or changed" or a "baseline payout of 300-500k for each sig and a bonus is awarded for the submission." I'm sure there are a few other ideas people have to make graphics work, why not set up a small group to brainstorm on how to make a new graphics system work, and then sort of present it to HO to see if they agree

i wouldnt say im taking it as a rip on the graders exactly. i would however say this is a good example of “a misstep” like i referred to because realistically graphics grading has just as much of a learning curve as creating the graphics themselves. this issue does get brought up from time to time... and a lot of the time it is when we introduce new graders in to the system because they simply havent practiced grading enough.

i do think you have some good ideas and fair points when it comes to the scale though. a base payout wouldnt be a bad idea. or i was thinking something along the lines of making the 2/5 payout higher and going from there. it does suck that people are working hard on graphics and only getting half a mil out of it. ive also had the idea of basing grades off criteria... so the grade would be an average of several scores in different categories. i think that could have some benefits should we choose to go down that road.

Samsung virtual assistant · 01-29-2020, 10:21 PM

There should be a special sweg scale where anyone with sweg in their name(in any language) gets an automatic 5 on any sig sibmitted.

*Carpy48* · 01-30-2020, 02:55 AM

We'll take your suggestions and are going to discuss this within our graphics department to see whether we can come up with a solution. But really do keep in mind that new graders sometimes mess up (either with grades that are too high or too low). They're still learning. Art is so subjective that it's impossible to please everyone, that's a fact.

edit: Something else that came to my mind. If people that don't consider themselves graphics gods (to quote sloth) submit 4 basic sigs every week, it's still an easy million you can make - at worst. Better than Twitter. And if you already know that you are better at writing or recording podcasts than at creating graphics, then this shouldn't be your main source of income on the site. Some of us happen to be good at graphics and don't like writing/podcasts or perhaps don't have time for other jobs. You never know, maybe you improve and can make 2M a week with graphics. There's a niche for everyone and you really don't have to be an expert in Photoshop to submit graphics.

Sean · 01-30-2020, 09:22 AM

I'll say it now and I'll say it again. Get a team of 10-20 signature graders (varied in skill) and have 2 or so "heads". Every 10-20 sigs submitted get put into a spreadsheet. Graders are asked not to analyze the quality of the sig but give an aesthetic grade between 1-10. As soon as 5 people have graded the spreadsheet you've got your average grade and you can give a out the pay.

I bet things would get graded a lot quicker and people would be a lot more happy with their grades.

If you want to super deep dive into it you can track a graders average grade and grading consistency using the data they provide to determine if they're being lazy and picking random numbers, being harsh on average or being to nice on average.

EDM All-Time Leader in Goals, Assists and Points

***sve7en*** · 01-30-2020, 09:30 AM

01-30-2020, 09:22 AMTommySalami Wrote: I'll say it now and I'll say it again. Get a team of 10-20 signature graders (varied in skill) and have 2 or so "heads". Every 10-20 sigs submitted get put into a spreadsheet. Graders are asked not to analyze the quality of the sig but give an aesthetic grade between 1-10. As soon as 5 people have graded the spreadsheet you've got your average grade and you can give a out the pay.

I bet things would get graded a lot quicker and people would be a lot more happy with their grades.

If you want to super deep dive into it you can track a graders average grade and grading consistency using the data they provide to determine if they're being lazy and picking random numbers, being harsh on average or being to nice on average.

I like this idea.

*takethehorizon* · 01-30-2020, 09:38 AM

Me personally, I look mainly for effort and time put into each piece rather how well it's done. After all aside from payouts, we're here to give constructive feedback to help improve members PS skill.

***sve7en*** · 01-30-2020, 10:03 AM

01-30-2020, 09:38 AMtakethehorizon Wrote: Me personally, I look mainly for effort and time put into each piece rather how well it's done. After all aside from payouts, we're here to give constructive feedback to help improve members PS skill.

That's kind of nonsense though, if the same sig is easy and doesn't require as much effort for a photoshop pro but requires a lot of effort for a person new to doing graphics, you're gonna grade differently because of the effort?

You're ignoring the hours of effort learning the ideas of design and mastering software. Grading only on improvement means you'd end up paying an amateur more than Michaelangelo.

*Carpy48* · 01-30-2020, 02:34 PM

01-30-2020, 09:22 AMTommySalami Wrote: I'll say it now and I'll say it again. Get a team of 10-20 signature graders (varied in skill) and have 2 or so "heads".

You know how difficult it is to even find maybe 5-6 people that regularly grade something? Just 1-2 months ago were down to 3 active graders.

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