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PremierBromanov · 05-19-2020, 07:01 PM

05-19-2020, 06:57 PMthecanadiancanuck Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:46 PMhhh81 Wrote: To be fair, bud, Head Office (albeit SMJHL) has made some precedent (in S46) that it's the GM's job to know everything, even when the pick tracker isn't fully up to date.
Last season Winnipeg lost their pick for the exact same thing. Two month old trade, pick tracker mis-entered it, trade was thrown out and the Jets lost a pick even though their GM technically did not screw up.

begs the question why this is even possible. We've got node servers scraping websites to gather player stats (or we used to), it's bonkers that we don't have the picks hosted somewhere and owned by teams with a login or something. I mean, we've got unofficial sheets that display player TPE and other info, why do we even factor in human error with picks and trades?

***boom*** · 05-19-2020, 07:02 PM

05-19-2020, 06:30 PMJNH Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:18 PMthecanadiancanuck Wrote: Basically a standard punishment where the SFP trade was the first offense and the CHI trade was the second. Sucks to see it have to come to this, but it was the right move under the rules.

My issue is that this is an interesting interpretation of the rules.

The whole purpose behind the one infraction = punishment A, second infraction = much harsher punishment B system is to provide a warning shot before taking drastic measures. So I guess the question here is: were the two trades separate infractions under the spirit of the rule?

I get that he broke the rules but this seems to take a rule that is meant to do anything and to use it in a situation to achieve an unjust outcome. If it was truly meant to be used in the manner that it was today, then it should have been worded as "if you wrongfully trade the same pick numerous times" or "if you wrongfully trade picks numerous times". When it's worded as "first offence: ____. second offence: _____." it seems to imply that these are steps of punishment that are increased once someone becomes a repeat offender. You can't call Ace a repeat offender when he was never caught/punished for the first offence.

At least, if I was Ace that's one of the arguments I'd start with on my appeal.

Seems pretty fair. I don’t think the firing sticks on appeal, but I doubt it’s a standard first-offence pick loss either.

JNH · 05-19-2020, 07:04 PM

05-19-2020, 06:54 PMMayuu Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:41 PMFuzzSHL Wrote: I agree, and as much as I want to ignore it, I can't. To watch a certain group of people only come in here to dunk on a guy at his lowest with zero repercussions is yet another glaring error in the way the site conducts itself. And the worst part? These people don't care, don't think there's anything wrong with what they're doing, and will continue doing it since they "aren't actually breaking the rules."

I feel bad for Ace losing a job he clearly loves and are very dedicated about. The rule is pretty freaking clear and there's precedent.

That being said, stop playing the victim. Almost all teams on the site does this when it affects someone that's not in their clique. Minny trading for McZ, McZ not getting any more chances at being a GM. Hamilton STSH shit. The list goes on and on. Everyone piles on if the right person/team is on the receiving end.

Get off your high horse.

If that helps you sleep at night, sure. But it isn't true.

Flareon · 05-19-2020, 07:05 PM

I think the real question everyone should be asking is why haven't we let Slappy make a spreadsheet for SHL picks? He's made an excellent one for the J

***Vandy*** · 05-19-2020, 07:06 PM

05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:59 PMkarey Wrote: I'm sorry you don't like memes @DaftRaincloud @FuzzSHL we thought they were funny

Using the "he was drunk" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Hey I fixed it for you bro.

***FuzzSHL*** · 05-19-2020, 07:06 PM

05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:59 PMkarey Wrote: I'm sorry you don't like memes @DaftRaincloud @FuzzSHL we thought they were funny

Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Karey, I've got respect for you. But Daft is right here. And, in fairness to him, I was the one who brought this up.

There's a time and a place. This is not it.

Aleksi Kettu

DaftRaincloud · 05-19-2020, 07:07 PM

05-19-2020, 07:06 PMVandy Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote: Using the "he was drunk" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Hey I fixed it for you bro.

Pure laziness not to change the rest of the quote as well. Bad look.

karey · 05-19-2020, 07:07 PM

05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:59 PMkarey Wrote: I'm sorry you don't like memes @DaftRaincloud @FuzzSHL we thought they were funny

Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Please DM me examples of the memes that crossed the line using "hurtful text"

(I have a suspicion the memes aren't that bad and you and fuzz may just be really sensitive right now)

***FuzzSHL*** · 05-19-2020, 07:10 PM

05-19-2020, 07:07 PMkarey Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote: Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Please DM me examples of the memes that crossed the line using "hurtful text"

(I have a suspicion the memes aren't that bad and you and fuzz may just be really sensitive right now)

For me, it wasn't the individual memes themselves, it was the repetitiveness, the non-stop "let's keep kicking him while he's down" mentality.

Aleksi Kettu

ACapitalChicago · 05-19-2020, 07:10 PM

Did HO cite the wrong section here?

05-19-2020, 06:06 PMSDCore Wrote: Ace was found in violation of the SHL Rule I.B.3.

I.B.3. is

Quote:Deadlines will be announced each offseason for finishing regression, as well as budget, roster, and other GM work. Failure to meet these deadlines will result in the following punishment:...

With underlying points regarding Regression.

Quick reference to the Consolidated SHL Rulebook

S66 Damian Littleton

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||

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karey · 05-19-2020, 07:11 PM

05-19-2020, 07:06 PMFuzzSHL Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote: Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Karey, I've got respect for you. But Daft is right here. And, in fairness to him, I was the one who brought this up.

There's a time and a place. This is not it.

Totally agree, the memes were for everybody to have a laugh and we stockpiled knowing it would get an audience.. somehow it is being to look like we are bullying

However it does take a dark turn reflecting the probably turmoil Ace is in. Not an admission of malice/guilt, but saying memeing a punishment thread is definitely not the kindest place... I get that

mdubz · 05-19-2020, 07:11 PM

05-19-2020, 06:48 PMhhh81 Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:45 PMmdubz Wrote: ah, there it is, missing the all jrs team is more like it
You weren't in the thread when I started. These things take time to do. Sorry, kid.

its all good, i made the other one that got made in here

karey · 05-19-2020, 07:13 PM

05-19-2020, 07:10 PMFuzzSHL Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:07 PMkarey Wrote: Please DM me examples of the memes that crossed the line using "hurtful text"

(I have a suspicion the memes aren't that bad and you and fuzz may just be really sensitive right now)

For me, it wasn't the individual memes themselves, it was the repetitiveness, the non-stop "let's keep kicking him while he's down" mentality.

We have had a countdown with our memes in hand. Like a virgin on prom night... We just let er fly

I do hope you see our pursuit of comedic levity, rather than harrassment and perpetuation of hate.

PremierBromanov · 05-19-2020, 07:13 PM

05-19-2020, 07:07 PMkarey Wrote:
05-19-2020, 07:01 PMDaftRaincloud Wrote: Using the "just a meme" excuse to attack someone is a cop out and a dismissal of responsibility for your actions and how they can impact others. There's a fine line between memes and attacks and to be fair I wasn't the one that raised the issue in the first place. Putting hurtful text on a funny image doesn't turn that text into a meme on the merit that it's now attached to a funny image.

Please DM me examples of the memes that crossed the line using "hurtful text"

(I have a suspicion the memes aren't that bad and you and fuzz may just be really sensitive right now)

im not 100% sure of the context of this conversation, but at the risk of looking like a doofus, ill say this: The only person that gets to define where the line is is the person the memes are being directed at/are about

***Citizen of Adraa*** · 05-19-2020, 07:13 PM

05-19-2020, 07:01 PMSegi Wrote:
05-19-2020, 06:54 PMCitizen of Adraa Wrote: The double checking argument is one I really don't like. It ends up causing everything having a full blastback at GMs rather than tagging along the parts of the process that fail when something like this occurs, simply because the eventual investigation can just point a finger at GMs head and say "You were supposed to be the last to check". Obviously I am biased as fuck, but I do really not enjoy the whole concept.

How would you propose we do it then? Giving the responsibility to keep track of all the picks to just one person is kind of asking for disaster. I know there are people who can do that job well, but with all the conditions, mistakes just can happen. Asking every team to keep track of their own picks - just their own, not all of them - really helps in finding the mistakes that do happen, before a pick is actually used by a team. I'm not saying a pick tracker should get off scott free for not doing their job, but I don't want all that weight on the shoulders of one person.

The problem is in your last sentence. Thanks to the absolute GM responsibility the middle men often if not close to always get off scott free. May I remind the Newfoundland player, Kostitsyn, crossing the 350 cap punishment? By the punishment itself, clear GM fault. However, how come the updater that, when a guy in Js crossing over 350 TPE, didnt check his draft class and didnt stop it from hapenning? I agree that putting stuff like pick tracking only on shoulders of one guy and only punishing him for mistakes basically just shifts the blame from GMs to him, but there should be a level of shared responsibility, which in turn I would believe would make people double check their work themselves on top of us.

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