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*fishy* · 05-25-2020, 11:01 PM

05-25-2020, 10:48 PMGwdjohnson Wrote: I'm still holding out hope this Littleton shit is some sort of really in poor taste joke. Kal went above and beyond in his duties this season, and as fantastic a job as JR and Luke did this season (I'm not saying they don't deserve recognition), this was without a shadow of a doubt Kal's award and the other two should've been just a formality, and probably the biggest awards snub we'll see for some time yet.

He ran all the simming for THREE different competitions this season, when he didn't even need to volunteer to do IIHF and WJC as well, and did even more work beyond that to the point where real life jobs wouldn't even have that workload. He made sure to live sim as many games as he possibly could, and it got so time-intensive for him that he didn't have time to play games with us in Canada anymore like we did beforehand. He basically sacrificed personal time to spend hanging out with us in favour of doing all that he did this season. He called his simming duties this season his 'second job', and doing all the extra work he put in to make this transition a success probably even deserves a lifetime achievement instead of a Littleton. In fact I initially thought that it was being given to JR at first because it was gonna be followed up with a Kal Onoprienko win, so I wasn't worried about the Littleton snub.

It's just sad that he's being robbed of the recognition he blatantly deserves once again after not even being nominated last time. This league doesn't deserve the work Kal does and this just reaffirms it. I'm just stunned.

This was very well written Gabriel, don’t forget about updating every player for IIHF + WJC after the WJC commissioner ghosted. I do feel for JR as he’s caught in the crossfire of angry users and the Awards Committee and he has no control over this, JR would’ve deserved it any other season for his work.

*Ferda* · 05-25-2020, 11:02 PM

05-25-2020, 10:48 PMGwdjohnson Wrote: I'm still holding out hope this Littleton shit is some sort of really in poor taste joke. Kal went above and beyond in his duties this season, and as fantastic a job as JR and Luke did this season (I'm not saying they don't deserve recognition), this was without a shadow of a doubt Kal's award and the other two should've been just a formality, and probably the biggest awards snub we'll see for some time yet.

He ran all the simming for THREE different competitions this season, when he didn't even need to volunteer to do IIHF and WJC as well, and did even more work beyond that to the point where real life jobs wouldn't even have that workload. He made sure to live sim as many games as he possibly could, and it got so time-intensive for him that he didn't have time to play games with us in Canada anymore like we did beforehand. He basically sacrificed personal time to spend hanging out with us in favour of doing all that he did this season. He called his simming duties this season his 'second job', and doing all the extra work he put in to make this transition a success probably even deserves a lifetime achievement instead of a Littleton. In fact I initially thought that it was being given to JR at first because it was gonna be followed up with a Kal Onoprienko win, so I wasn't worried about the Littleton snub.

It's just sad that he's being robbed of the recognition he blatantly deserves once again after not even being nominated last time. This league doesn't deserve the work Kal does and this just reaffirms it. I'm just stunned.

5ympathies · 05-25-2020, 11:04 PM

Yo JR, I’m really happy for you, I’ll let you finish, but Kalakar has one of the best dedicated seasons of all time. One of the best dedicated seasons of all time!

Thanks to JSS for the signature

Zombiewolf · 05-25-2020, 11:09 PM

Strange those that voting on these awards have no idea what they are actually voting for

Thank you Brandon, Fish, GeckoeyGecko, Karey, Kit, takethehorizon, and Ragnar for the sigs!
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***sve7en*** · 05-25-2020, 11:38 PM

05-25-2020, 10:17 PMFerda Wrote: so do we all get littletons for doing our job then?

Shit I never get hired for things.

***luke*** · 05-25-2020, 11:44 PM

05-25-2020, 11:38 PMsve7en Wrote:
05-25-2020, 10:17 PMFerda Wrote: so do we all get littletons for doing our job then?

Shit I never get hired for things.

Hey...

TnlAstatine · 05-26-2020, 12:00 AM

im sorry but how in the fuck did kalakar not win the award.

Samsung virtual assistant · 05-26-2020, 12:06 AM

TBF when will we change the description of the littleton to Best simmer instead of most dedicated?

JayWhy · 05-26-2020, 02:05 AM

05-26-2020, 12:06 AMスウェグキング Wrote: TBF when will we change the description of the littleton to Best simmer instead of most dedicated?

Nice try devaluing the award, but it hasn't been awarded to a simmer until now since I believe S46, which was JR. This award is much more than it used to be, which until JackCross set the bar of simmers refusing the award, was simmers only. From then it truly represented the work and effort put in by a large amount of amazing people on this site who very much deserve the love and respect of the site and the least we do is give them an award to celebrate them.

An old man's dream ended. A young man's vision of the future opened wide. Young men have visions, old men have dreams. But the place for old men to dream is beside the fire.

Thanks to Jackson, Copenhagen, and Harry Hans!

GOING DOWN IN STYLE. TOAST4LYFE

*Katth* · 05-26-2020, 04:38 AM

Congrats to all the winners.

It's really sad that an event that's supposed to be a happy and positive one is overshadowed by one big mistake.

S50 Challenge Cup Finals Game 7
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Samsung virtual assistant · 05-26-2020, 06:44 AM

05-26-2020, 02:05 AMJayWhy Wrote:
05-26-2020, 12:06 AMスウェグキング Wrote: TBF when will we change the description of the littleton to Best simmer instead of most dedicated?
Nice try devaluing the award, but it hasn't been awarded to a simmer until now since I believe S46, which was JR. This award is much more than it used to be, which until JackCross set the bar of simmers refusing the award, was simmers only. From then it truly represented the work and effort put in by a large amount of amazing people on this site who very much deserve the love and respect of the site and the least we do is give them an award to celebrate them.

I was more thinking of making it 2 seperate awards seeing how the simmers are always 2 of the nominees, but whatever floats your boat.

And now i see that its usually only 1 of them so i take that back, guess i havent followed this as closely as i thought i did.

Also the awards committee did a good job devaluing it themselves by not giving it to Kal who seemingly invested the most out of anyone.

Also, maybe we should get a badge for simmers too, like under their username which shows how many seasons they simmed, would be cool IMO, would give them more credit too.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 05-26-2020, 06:57 AM

Alright I can weigh in on this a little bit as a member of the Awards Committee. This is not an "official" statement but maybe I can help clear a few things up and have a healthy discussion about this.

We have already started talking internally about doing an extensive evaluation and post-mortem about this season because we also aren't happy with how it went and with some of the results that we ended up with. While I think that not all the criticism aimed at us has been warranted, it has become clear by now that we have definitely screwed up in a few areas. There are a couple of possible reasons (not excuses) for this, most importantly the sim change and all the differences in available stats and what they mean in context to each other compared to what we previously had. There also is the fact that we went through a bunch of personnel changes this season, including losing one of our most committed members on relatively short notice, and the fact that some things about our internal process don't seem to have worked properly this season. Be assured that we will be talking about all these things in the upcoming days.

Now to be a little more specific and talk about the Littleton that almost everyone seems to be upset with. I can't talk for the entire committee but yeah, to me it seems pretty clear at this point that we did screw up here and I also have to admit that I was part of the problem as I was one of the people who didn't have Kalakar super high on his lists. Let me explain how this happened though so you can get a better understanding and so that we can avoid stuff like this in the future because I think there are things that both the Awards staff and everyone else can do.

Simply put, I didn't know how much Kalakar actually did. For those of you that are actively involved in the SMJHL as a player, GM or alumn this might sound outrageous and like I am totally ignorant and oblivious, but the truth is that many people, more than you might actually realize, do not follow the SMJHL all too much. This seems to be the case for a bunch of the other committee members as well and I would argue that while it would of course be ideal if everyone cared about every league, that there is no obligation to care about the SMJHL if you aren't actively in it, just as there is no obligation for anyone currently in the SMJHL to care about the dealings of the SHL. And if you aren't actively involved in the SMJHL stuff like who does the most work there is actually quite easy to miss, people who you might think of as super prominent might be completely unknown to others and so on. We aim to have a couple of people with strong SMJHL-ties on the committee to get their perspective and to make up for this knowledge-gap, but sadly those were rather quiet this season and while Kal's name was brought up, nobody made his case very strongly.

Now with that being said, we do actually have a system in place to deal with that problem and to counter the ignorance of people like myself. It basically consists of us reaching out to various SHL departments, GMs etc. prior to the nomination process about who they think has done a lot of work and would deserve this the most and then we heavily take their feedback into account. Sadly, this system failed this season as the outreach wasn't done properly. I think this was mainly due to the fact that the person who usually did the outreach had to step down on rather short notice after the process had already begun, and while we did find a replacement for his spot on the committee, we failed to replace him for this specific task. We definitely dropped the ball there and I can only apologize to Kalakar for the fact that his contributions seem to have been so grossly overlooked by some of us.

As I have already said we will be talking about all these things internally and evaluate our process to improve it for the future, if you have stuff to add to this then feel free to do here in public or in PMs with any member of the committee. There are also some things that I would need to add and that I think everyone can do to make this process better for the future. Broadly speaking, I (and many others I would argue) always find the member awards to be some of the hardest ones to vote on, this includes the Littleton but also stuff like Best Coach and Best GMs. When voting on players you can base your votes on actual statistical data and while mistakes can happen there as well, it at least gives everyone a common base to work with. This isn't really a case for the member awards which is why it is so easy for some peoples contributions to be missed or undervalued.

To combat that, I would like to encourage all you guys to make the case for the people you think deserve these Awards. If there is a guy that you think really needs to get recognized for either of these then make some propaganda, write an article or make a thread praising their contributions, tag committee members or reach out to them via PM or Discord, that kind of stuff. You can do that for player-awards as well of course but I would argue that it is much more effective and actually vital to the whole process on the member side of things. I already talked about the Littleton plenty in here but the GM and Coach Awards are also a bitch to vote on each year. Usually there isn't enough trade-movement in one given season to really evaluate which team got themselves an edge through that, or those trades only pay off years later, and the transactions subforum is a mess because it is cluttered with re-signings, so even researching this kind of data is a big hassle with lots of sources of potential errors. It's also incredible hard to evaluate how much "coaching work" or work in general teams have done internally that would deserve them extra consideration, so often these Awards simply end up as "Team who did best in the standings" and "team who did best in the standings based on expectations". More contributions from the general SHL public might help us get a clearer picture on these each year as well.

We have talked a lot about the member awards now, but to close this out I would like to quickly adress some things about the player awards as well. Just as with the Littleton, we dropped the ball on some of these as well I would argue. However, there are some cases where the criticism has been fair and others were it hasn't. I have quite fiercely defended us and our selections in the nominations thread for the Aidan Richan Trophy (Most Improved Player) and I still stand by that. We made the right choice there and the fact that someone would've preferred to see his teammate up there doesn't change that. However, there are other Awards where I believed we dropped the ball, either in the initial nomination process or in the final voting. I don't want to talk about this too much in public as I don't want to single out any of my colleagues but some of their votes have been headscratchers and who knows, maybe they think the same about my votes as well given how different we seem to have voted in some cases.

We want people to bring their own unique perspectives to the committee and not force them to adhere to restrictive centralized voting criteria, but at this point I think there is a point to be made for a somewhat more unified approach where we rely on shared broad guidelines and expect people to at least make their case when they deviate from them too far. I for one wasn't very happy both with how the process went this season and with some of the decisions we ended up with. This includes the fact that I think my colleagues made some really bad choices and relied on the wrong stats in some categories, both also the inconvinient truth that I, while doing the write-ups for the nomination articles, also found some cases were I realized that my own choices weren't great or that I had missed certain people, which is something that I hadn't really experienced previously in the STHS era with its index and advanced stats sheets. I would like to ask for some patience and understanding given all the changes that the league and thereby the awards went through recently, but we also have to be better, it's that simple. We weren't good enough this year.

Samsung virtual assistant · 05-26-2020, 07:27 AM

05-26-2020, 06:57 AMRomanesEuntDomus Wrote: As I have already said we will be talking about all these things internally and evaluate our process to improve it for the future, if you have stuff to add to this then feel free to do here in public or in PMs with any member of the committee. There are also some things that I would need to add and that I think everyone can do to make this process better for the future. Broadly speaking, I (and many others I would argue) always find the member awards to be some of the hardest ones to vote on, this includes the Littleton but also stuff like Best Coach and Best GMs. When voting on players you can base your votes on actual statistical data and while mistakes can happen there as well, it at least gives everyone a common base to work with. This isn't really a case for the member awards which is why it is so easy for some peoples contributions to be missed or undervalued.

I read everything but ill focus on this, and i fully agree, i personally dont agree with either of the coach or GM winners but its a rough one and what do you value more? its very individual and as you said it could easily become a "win the most games award".

My comment wasn't to shit on the noms really, though in hindsight i saw that Kal was the more qualified, which i myself didnt realise either before it was talked about here. I'm still stuck in the older days when the simmer was always nominated and often won. I havent had a player that has been close to being nominated for anything so i havent been paying enough attention obviously.

Weretarantula · 05-26-2020, 08:09 AM

'Simply put I didn't actually know how much Kalakar did'
This quote right here exemplifies this entire situation in my opinion. People didn't look at a single thing Kal did because it wasn't the SHL.
From a team that is supposed to analyse the efforts of people on this site for this specific award, that is absolute bullshit.

**RomanesEuntDomus** · 05-26-2020, 08:19 AM

05-26-2020, 08:09 AMWeretarantula Wrote: 'Simply put I didn't actually know how much Kalakar did'
This quote right here exemplifies this entire situation in my opinion. People didn't look at a single thing Kal did because it wasn't the SHL.
From a team that is supposed to analyse the efforts of people on this site for this specific award, that is absolute bullshit.

Just to clarify, of course I knew that he was the SMJHL simmer and that he did a good job there, but for someone who doesn't actively follow the Live-Sims it's hard to gauge the extent of his contribution. IIHF and WJC both were just starting during our nominations or even the final voting process, so it was tough to take those into account properly.

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