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Mark Rycroft, The Colorado Avalanche, and his hateful statements
#16

06-02-2020, 01:34 PMhhh81 Wrote: Does it need to stop, though?
Yes. I think that's pretty apparent to most people at this point.

Quote:The shift from "peaceful" protests to rioting/looting has very specific and important reasons. In part, escalation has been intentionally incited by police and White supremacists in city after city in hopes of discrediting this movement to the White moderate.
Defending riots and looting isn't a good look dude. I don't care what the cause is, violence and the destruction of people's livelihoods should never be acceptable by any society. Furthermore, you immediately discredit this movement by shifting the blame to police and so-called 'white supremacists'. Police are required to be there - it's their job to uphold the Constitution in the US (see here). I haven't seen anything from any news source to suggest 'white supremacists' are instigating either. Have you? Be careful not to provide a pasty white kid in blackout clothing as proof because I'm pretty sure that's the standard 'uniform' for the newly (or soon to be newly) designated terrorist group, Antifa.

Quote:Additionally, looting has a fundamental value and legitimacy within protests.

Sigh. No, it doesn't. Looting is stealing. It's a crime. A protest doesn't change that.

Quote:Trevor Noah explained it better than I could drawing on social contract theory and how the American social contract has been violated over. and over. and over. again over our history. When our nation's history and present actions both show that Black Americans are not included in the social contract of America, those laws have no moral authority and following them blindly is submission to oppression.
I have no idea what this 'social contract theory' thing is but perhaps it should stay as it's called: theory. A comedian probably isn't the best vehicle for explaining this kind of stuff either - regardless of his skin color. You wouldn't trust a fry cook, for example, with finding a cure to the coronavirus, would you?

Quote:Substantive change rarely comes from quietly asking the systems that be to change internally. There needs to be a disruption, a shake up, to the status quo.
Logically speaking, yes, you are correct when it comes to shaking up the status quo. However, the means do not justify the ends when it comes to this movement.
Rioting and looting will be and have been met with similarly destructive means by the police and private citizens so far. Police are oath-bound to confront these rioters (from the above link): “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." Private citizens are entitled to self-defense through the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.

Now, with that being said, and before someone calls me a racist, I largely support the BLM movement and their right to peaceful protest, like every other person in a free society. They aren't being withheld from that right, even during a worldwide pandemic (which has oddly become less of a big deal over the past few days, it seems). I do not support the rioting and looting that are being sparked by these protests, however. George Floyd's family has said on numerous occasions that they want the violence to stop. Wasn't his death the reason this all boiled over? Why are the riots and looting continuing then?

And as for Mark Rycroft, the reason this thread even exists, come on. The dude owns a liquor store that, presumably, was being looted during one of the riots in Colorado. I'd be pissed too if my business was being destroyed by lawless thugs. While I don't wish for a similar kind of retribution that he described, the reaction to what was probably a very emotional night for him is absolutely justified. Maybe not on a public forum, and as a locally known sportscaster, but justified nonetheless.

It's not as if he was saying 'F*ck BLM' or something to that effect, despite how some people took it.

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#17

06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: A comedian probably isn't the best vehicle for explaining this kind of stuff either - regardless of his skin color. You wouldn't trust a fry cook, for example, with finding a cure to the coronavirus, would you?

so we’re supposed to listen to you instead, mr “the only books I own are Jordan Peterson and Ben Shapiro”? Mmm nah, gonna be a hard pass from me.

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#18

06-02-2020, 10:13 AMPremierBromanov Wrote: Imagine not listening to based Kenny and Micky on FSD
Holy Jumpin' I need some ginger ale

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#19

SHL was always missing a guy with a Stephen Crowder profile pic posting some shitty regurgitated Ben Shapiro/Charlie Kirk takes, good to see we’ve got someone to fill that gap

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#20

06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: I have no idea what this 'social contract theory' thing is but perhaps it should stay as it's called: theory.

You obviously don't know the difference between a theory and an hypothesis.

You know what else is a theory? Gravity. I don't see you flying around because you "dOn'T bElIeVe iN iT". A theory is made when an hypothesis (hypothetical statement) has been confirmed multiple times, by many people with as many different data sets.

Or if you want the Merriam-Webster short version :
Quote:In scientific reasoning, a hypothesis is an assumption made before any research has been completed for the sake of testing. A theory on the other hand is a principle set to explain phenomena already supported by data. Theories will pull together experimental results to provide full explanations such as "The Big Bang Theory." Outside of scientific reasoning, "theory" and "hypothesis" are often used interchangeably, and "theory' can unfortunately be interpreted to mean "less sound" or "lightly speculated."

And there's even the longer version!

Also, nice try just circling around @DELIRIVM's comment, which completely invalidated what you just said

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#21

06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: Now, with that being said, and before someone calls me a racist, I largely support the BLM movement and their right to peaceful protest, like every other person in a free society. They aren't being withheld from that right, even during a worldwide pandemic (which has oddly become less of a big deal over the past few days, it seems). I do not support the rioting and looting that are being sparked by these protests, however. George Floyd's family has said on numerous occasions that they want the violence to stop. Wasn't his death the reason this all boiled over? Why are the riots and looting continuing then?

And as for Mark Rycroft, the reason this thread even exists, come on. The dude owns a liquor store that, presumably, was being looted during one of the riots in Colorado. I'd be pissed too if my business was being destroyed by lawless thugs. While I don't wish for a similar kind of retribution that he described, the reaction to what was probably a very emotional night for him is absolutely justified. Maybe not on a public forum, and as a locally known sportscaster, but justified nonetheless.


Just to focus on these two pieces.

People are being withheld from their right to peaceful protest. It has happened in Sacramento, LA, Denver, the list goes on. Hell peaceful protesting was the first thing that was tried when the BLM movement started (2013) with Kapernick kneeling and people had problems with that. There is history that shows rioting as being one of the only things people in charge will listen to (Civil Rights act passing in 68, Men abusing women in the suffrage movement to ratify the 19th amendment). Please do not act as though people didn't try to protest peacefully. The majority of the world is only taking notice of this because of the intense violence.


The second point. What Rycroft said was short-sighted and privileged. When White people got up in arms because they couldn't get a hair cut, no one bats an eye at the aggressiveness that some took but because it is a BLM issue, they have to do things in a certain way that make whites feel okay. There are two sides to this issue and if you are on the fence then you are on the side of being racist. Property can be rebuilt, black lives cannot be brought back.
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#22
(This post was last modified: 06-02-2020, 06:56 PM by hhh81.)

@Carbine let me help you out. Social contract theory, as outlined by Hobbes and Locke, were the exact thinkers the Founders and Framers cited with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. The Federalist Papers directly point back to social contract theory at several points. The theory is in practice today, as it's what undergirds the entire nation.

Second, here's a link to one explanation of it: https://www.iep.utm.edu/soc-cont/

If you don't feel like reading, you can also watch a Youtube video from a HS Government class.

Also, violent protest was also a central part of the Civil Rights Movement, regardless of how sanitized and whitewashed much of the history has become especially around Dr. King. 

To your arguably snide comment discrediting Trevor Noah, comedians like him, Colbert, and Jon Stewart have shown more leadership over the last 4 years than Trump has in any single day of his embarrassment of a regime. They've also covered current events with more integrity, intelligence, and nuance than the major media outlets have, which is sad but makes sense. Good comedians are always on the front line of observing and understanding things as they are, and point out the absurdity of many things.

If you'd like to have a serious conversation about these topics, my DMs are open.

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#23

06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote:
Quote:Substantive change rarely comes from quietly asking the systems that be to change internally. There needs to be a disruption, a shake up, to the status quo.
Logically speaking, yes, you are correct when it comes to shaking up the status quo. However, the means do not justify the ends when it comes to this movement.
Rioting and looting will be and have been met with similarly destructive means by the police and private citizens so far. Police are oath-bound to confront these rioters (from the above link): “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." Private citizens are entitled to self-defense through the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.

carbine pls

you have things backwards. This isn't 'ah people are rioting and therefore the police are fighting back' this is 'police are attacking peaceful protesters and therefore there are riots happening'. What do you want people to do, man? roll over and die? These riots are the product of generations of built up hatred and injustice in America, and to say that they should just stop is foolish and unsympathetic at best.

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#24

06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote:
06-02-2020, 01:34 PMhhh81 Wrote: Does it need to stop, though?
Yes. I think that's pretty apparent to most people at this point.

Quote:The shift from "peaceful" protests to rioting/looting has very specific and important reasons. In part, escalation has been intentionally incited by police and White supremacists in city after city in hopes of discrediting this movement to the White moderate.
Defending riots and looting isn't a good look dude. I don't care what the cause is, violence and the destruction of people's livelihoods should never be acceptable by any society. Furthermore, you immediately discredit this movement by shifting the blame to police and so-called 'white supremacists'. Police are required to be there - it's their job to uphold the Constitution in the US (see here). I haven't seen anything from any news source to suggest 'white supremacists' are instigating either. Have you? Be careful not to provide a pasty white kid in blackout clothing as proof because I'm pretty sure that's the standard 'uniform' for the newly (or soon to be newly) designated terrorist group, Antifa.

Quote:Additionally, looting has a fundamental value and legitimacy within protests.

Sigh. No, it doesn't. Looting is stealing. It's a crime. A protest doesn't change that.

Quote:Trevor Noah explained it better than I could drawing on social contract theory and how the American social contract has been violated over. and over. and over. again over our history. When our nation's history and present actions both show that Black Americans are not included in the social contract of America, those laws have no moral authority and following them blindly is submission to oppression.
I have no idea what this 'social contract theory' thing is but perhaps it should stay as it's called: theory. A comedian probably isn't the best vehicle for explaining this kind of stuff either - regardless of his skin color. You wouldn't trust a fry cook, for example, with finding a cure to the coronavirus, would you?

Quote:Substantive change rarely comes from quietly asking the systems that be to change internally. There needs to be a disruption, a shake up, to the status quo.
Logically speaking, yes, you are correct when it comes to shaking up the status quo. However, the means do not justify the ends when it comes to this movement.
Rioting and looting will be and have been met with similarly destructive means by the police and private citizens so far. Police are oath-bound to confront these rioters (from the above link): “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." Private citizens are entitled to self-defense through the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.

Now, with that being said, and before someone calls me a racist, I largely support the BLM movement and their right to peaceful protest, like every other person in a free society. They aren't being withheld from that right, even during a worldwide pandemic (which has oddly become less of a big deal over the past few days, it seems). I do not support the rioting and looting that are being sparked by these protests, however. George Floyd's family has said on numerous occasions that they want the violence to stop. Wasn't his death the reason this all boiled over? Why are the riots and looting continuing then?

And as for Mark Rycroft, the reason this thread even exists, come on. The dude owns a liquor store that, presumably, was being looted during one of the riots in Colorado. I'd be pissed too if my business was being destroyed by lawless thugs. While I don't wish for a similar kind of retribution that he described, the reaction to what was probably a very emotional night for him is absolutely justified. Maybe not on a public forum, and as a locally known sportscaster, but justified nonetheless.

It's not as if he was saying 'F*ck BLM' or something to that effect, despite how some people took it.

Here are some links I found pretty quickly after googling of white supremacists groups being suspected or confirmed as attempting to incite violence as well as deflect blame to the antifa boogeyman:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...lence.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/white-su...sts-2020-6

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/status...00483?s=19

Here's a thread of 150+ instances of police violence against peaceful protesters, bystanders, reporters, the works really:

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status...59847?s=19.

In these instances, the cops are starting the violence. All with cameras rolling.

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#25

Just some stuff you might wanna look at, Carbine.

https://www.newsweek.com/fbi-asks-eviden...ce-1508165

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/twitter-fak...s-removal/

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#26

Don't forget to check out the SHL Gives Back thread for some better vibes Smile

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#27

06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: A comedian probably isn't the best vehicle for explaining this kind of stuff either - regardless of his skin color. You wouldn't trust a fry cook, for example, with finding a cure to the coronavirus, would you?
Holy shit, what? Do you even know what the daily show is? Scratch that, do you even know what late night television is? This is a ridiculous statement on its own as Trevor Noah explaining social contract theory isn’t finding a solution to racism, or whatever your ridiculous analogy is supposed to mean.

The even dumber part is you somehow found a way to gloss over the fact that relating these things to the common person is literally his job! That’s every late night host’s job! They don’t hire comedians to do these shows because they make haha funny with their mouths, it’s because comedians know how to speak about these issues in a way that they can be related to, thought about, learned from.

Do you think stand-up is making fart jokes and talking about big penis cum? You’d be hard-pressed to find stand-up comedy that doesn’t touch on politics on some level, because that’s what people can universally laugh at if the joke is funny enough. I’m sure it exists, but it’s rare. To say comedians shouldn’t explain these things at all is bonkers, much less a talk show host. Who should explain it then? Bob the UNM sociologist that no one has heard of with 1000 Twitter followers, or a person with a team of researchers, writers, fact-checkers, and also the testimony of Bob the UNM sociologist?

And that’s not even discussing the insanity of your sentence right before that, where you go “I don’t know what this thing is because understanding what I’m arguing against is for virgins, but if it’s being used to argue against me, it’s probably bad.”

Thank god you support BLM though

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#28

06-02-2020, 06:58 PMGeckoeyGecko Wrote:
06-02-2020, 06:07 PMCarbine Wrote: Logically speaking, yes, you are correct when it comes to shaking up the status quo. However, the means do not justify the ends when it comes to this movement.
Rioting and looting will be and have been met with similarly destructive means by the police and private citizens so far. Police are oath-bound to confront these rioters (from the above link): “I, AB, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." Private citizens are entitled to self-defense through the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution.

carbine pls

you have things backwards. This isn't 'ah people are rioting and therefore the police are fighting back' this is 'police are attacking peaceful protesters and therefore there are riots happening'. What do you want people to do, man? roll over and die? These riots are the product of generations of built up hatred and injustice in America, and to say that they should just stop is foolish and unsympathetic at best.

Police are only responding because they're getting attacked during the riots. Example: they burned down the police station (and many other buildings) in Minneapolis. Here in Vegas, these cops saved hundreds of lives during 1 October shooting, and now just last night one was shot in the head by a rioter. 99% of cops are good cops, and want to protect the people. Only 1% are bad, but everyone believes they are all bad. Every group of people has bad people; but that doesn't mean everyone else is bad.

And for the part of "rolling over and die," that's a terrible response, because that's what many people want the police to do, roll over and let the riots kill them and burn down the city.

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#29

I support peaceful protests that are occurring, I believe that all lives matter, no matter race, sex, or beliefs. But if you believe in shooting cops that are trying to protect and save their city, then don't talk to me because that's fucking messed up.

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#30

06-02-2020, 07:13 PMjcfbey01 Wrote:
06-02-2020, 06:58 PMGeckoeyGecko Wrote: carbine pls

you have things backwards. This isn't 'ah people are rioting and therefore the police are fighting back' this is 'police are attacking peaceful protesters and therefore there are riots happening'. What do you want people to do, man? roll over and die? These riots are the product of generations of built up hatred and injustice in America, and to say that they should just stop is foolish and unsympathetic at best.

Police are only responding because they're getting attacked during the riots.

Take a look through my post above and tell me afterwards if you still believe this is even a little bit true.

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