06-03-2020, 09:12 AMLeoben Wrote: Credit to @Baelor Swift for actually trying.
While I'm pretty sure this is an attention grab post at this point, I don't think people dismissing him and telling him to fuck off and leave are right either. It's still marginalizing. I'm not saying he should be provided a platform either. Site admin can decide what to do there. There are other forums for that.
I live in an area where the majority of the population believe what Jruutu is saying. It's wrong and kind of fucked up. But, if you dismiss them, tell them they're stupid and ignorant, fuck off and die, whatever, then everyone just retreats back into their beliefs and nothing changes. Everyone has their own beliefs and experiences which helped form those beliefs. Not saying they're right but you can't eradicate a group of people, but maybe eradicate the idea and belief over time.
It's just funny because this thread has emulated so many conversations I have been a part of and witnessed in my daily life.
Telling him to fuck off is completely justified. At the end of the day, he was expressing overtly racist views and pushing whitewashed narratives of what is going on right now. It does take a lot of energy to read such hateful views and respond calmly with an intention to create a productive dialogue. Especially because, in many cases, it just leads nowhere. So if many people weren't feeling up to it, it's not their responsibility to sit and take time and energy to explain why these opinions in the OP are hateful and to try to explain what is going on from the perspective of the protestors and rioters. Today, I just felt like doing it and I'm glad I did.
08-24-2018, 01:08 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Ah yes, the veteran meme player. A surefire bet for maybe 400 TPE
06-03-2020, 09:45 AMteztify Wrote: This is ridiculous. Racism and oppression manifests itself in many ways, some big and some small - all evil. We don’t need to see genocide to recognize oppression.
And it’s not an American problem. It’s a global one. As you’ve demonstrated.
Absolutely, but still asking questions and sharing my thoughts on what I see should not automatically lead to me being labelled as the worst of the worst.
Of course not. We need to encourage everyone to have room to grow and learn, and to learn empathy. The problematic part is that you aren't just asking questions - you're sharing dangerous and inflammatory opinions, the kinds of things that create obstacles to equity. You aren't asking how black people - not just in America but the world over - are oppressed. You're saying they're "so-called oppressed". You aren't innocently taking up a discourse here, you're spreading dangerously uneducated, misinformed takes - your opinion has already been formed. You're not only suggesting that maybe the riots have gone too far - you're diminishing and nearly denying the problem exists at all.
It's a shifting of the goal posts to say that if they were oppressed they wouldn't make it out alive. That's literally not the definition of the word, and you can't change it to dismiss the plight of the black community.
06-03-2020, 09:08 AMjRuutu Wrote: That sounds terrible, no wonder people are angry and don´t see a way to make a difference. You would think with how important politics are in America that everything about the system is ´perfect´, or certainly at least getting people to vote would be priority number one, but by the sound of it - that is not the case.
That is a telling picture, thanks, shame if and when things truly are like that in most of the cities and neighborhoods.
Also terrible, still especially rest of the world needs to hear about it or certainly it should the responsibility of the media over here to paint the real picture, not just blast one angle.
Sounds like the system you have over there is far from perfect. I don´t know what to say - tragic. Like you said there is so much potential going wasted, that is the worst part of it all. Having potential and not being allowed to even try and fulfil it.
I'm really glad I took a leap of faith and decided to address your OP point by point. I honestly was not expecting you to be so willing to hear me out and gain a better understanding of the issue but I'm glad you have. If you have any more questions, please do ask but I hope I've explained the situation to you well enough about why people are protesting and rioting, why, this time, it was not just limited to peaceful protests, and how the system in the US is truly racist in its current state and is in dire need of reform.
If anything, I would love to see you make a donation to one of the many organisations people in the league are supporting - I will match you up to $20 if you do so.
To everyone else - no matter which side of the issue you are on, I really do urge you to read through this back and forth. Admittedly, this was rather exhausting but it is important for people to be open to dialogue and, in this case, both jRuutu and I were open to dialogue. And I think positives were able to be taken from it and it was an opportunity for him to be more educated on the situation and the facts and feelings that led to what is now going on. I understand approaching this post with hostility and don't blame, don't fault, don't condemn the many who did. That OP was extremely inflammatory. But if you're ever up to it, I urge you to try to take a breath and attempt to open up some form of dialogue with people who are expressing racist/discriminatory views. Many times it won't work but sometimes, you may just strike a chord.
And I´m glad you took the time to offer information, and share your point of view with facts on why people are really on the streets. Despite me not agreeing with the looting, the picture that is painted in media and social media does not really give the full picture on deeper issues, such as the voting being made harder for no real reason. I believe that is what majority in the other side are wondering, includingme - why not use your vote and go through that route instead of burning everything down.
06-03-2020, 09:52 AMBaelor Swift Wrote: I'm really glad I took a leap of faith and decided to address your OP point by point. I honestly was not expecting you to be so willing to hear me out and gain a better understanding of the issue but I'm glad you have. If you have any more questions, please do ask but I hope I've explained the situation to you well enough about why people are protesting and rioting, why, this time, it was not just limited to peaceful protests, and how the system in the US is truly racist in its current state and is in dire need of reform.
If anything, I would love to see you make a donation to one of the many organisations people in the league are supporting - I will match you up to $20 if you do so.
To everyone else - no matter which side of the issue you are on, I really do urge you to read through this back and forth. Admittedly, this was rather exhausting but it is important for people to be open to dialogue and, in this case, both jRuutu and I were open to dialogue. And I think positives were able to be taken from it and it was an opportunity for him to be more educated on the situation and the facts and feelings that led to what is now going on. I understand approaching this post with hostility and don't blame, don't fault, don't condemn the many who did. That OP was extremely inflammatory. But if you're ever up to it, I urge you to try to take a breath and attempt to open up some form of dialogue with people who are expressing racist/discriminatory views. Many times it won't work but sometimes, you may just strike a chord.
And I´m glad you took the time to offer information, and share your point of view with facts on why people are really on the streets. Despite me not agreeing with the looting, the picture that is painted in media and social media does not really give the full picture on deeper issues, such as the voting being made harder for no real reason. I believe that is what majority in the other side are wondering, includingme - why not use your vote and go through that route instead of burning everything down.
I will look into donating, thanks.
Please let me know if you do!
08-24-2018, 01:08 PMWannabeFinn Wrote: Ah yes, the veteran meme player. A surefire bet for maybe 400 TPE
06-03-2020, 09:52 AMBaelor Swift Wrote: I'm really glad I took a leap of faith and decided to address your OP point by point. I honestly was not expecting you to be so willing to hear me out and gain a better understanding of the issue but I'm glad you have. If you have any more questions, please do ask but I hope I've explained the situation to you well enough about why people are protesting and rioting, why, this time, it was not just limited to peaceful protests, and how the system in the US is truly racist in its current state and is in dire need of reform.
If anything, I would love to see you make a donation to one of the many organisations people in the league are supporting - I will match you up to $20 if you do so.
To everyone else - no matter which side of the issue you are on, I really do urge you to read through this back and forth. Admittedly, this was rather exhausting but it is important for people to be open to dialogue and, in this case, both jRuutu and I were open to dialogue. And I think positives were able to be taken from it and it was an opportunity for him to be more educated on the situation and the facts and feelings that led to what is now going on. I understand approaching this post with hostility and don't blame, don't fault, don't condemn the many who did. That OP was extremely inflammatory. But if you're ever up to it, I urge you to try to take a breath and attempt to open up some form of dialogue with people who are expressing racist/discriminatory views. Many times it won't work but sometimes, you may just strike a chord.
And I´m glad you took the time to offer information, and share your point of view with facts on why people are really on the streets. Despite me not agreeing with the looting, the picture that is painted in media and social media does not really give the full picture on deeper issues, such as the voting being made harder for no real reason. I believe that is what majority in the other side are wondering, includingme - why not use your vote and go through that route instead of burning everything down.
I will look into donating, thanks.
This is the best thing i've seen you type on the site.
06-03-2020, 09:51 AMjRuutu Wrote: Absolutely, but still asking questions and sharing my thoughts on what I see should not automatically lead to me being labelled as the worst of the worst.
Of course not. We need to encourage everyone to have room to grow and learn, and to learn empathy. The problematic part is that you aren't just asking questions - you're sharing dangerous and inflammatory opinions, the kinds of things that create obstacles to equity. You aren't asking how black people - not just in America but the world over - are oppressed. You're saying they're "so-called oppressed". You aren't innocently taking up a discourse here, you're spreading dangerously uneducated, misinformed takes - your opinion has already been formed. You're not only suggesting that maybe the riots have gone too far - you're diminishing and nearly denying the problem exists at all.
It's a shifting of the goal posts to say that if they were oppressed they wouldn't make it out alive. That's literally not the definition of the word, and you can't change it to dismiss the plight of the black community.
I'll help:
And that is what happened, I shared and commented with the information I have. I know for a fact that at least over here in Finland black people are not oppressed, they have the same opportunities as everybody else, but just like everyone else, not everybody goes on to do great things despite having all the same opportunities. We are not all doctors and politicians over here. Just because there is opportunities, that does not mean anything if you don´t use those opportunities. Of course its wrong to not offer the opportunities in the first place. The picture I have about America, the land of the free, is that you are your own boss - you control your own destiny. That is clearly wrong or is wrong nowadays.
I see the riots and people looting, I think what in the fuck is wrong with you people, that business offered jobs to who knows how many, you bought your items there - now you just step and take everything for free and destroy the property. I think to myself why don´t you vote and take interest in your local politics instead. In this thread I learned that voting process is not perfect over there, in Finland only way to make a difference is by voting. The system works, if you don´t vote - you don´t have the right to complain. I thought its the same in the greatest country of the world, but its not the case. That is terrible.
i will be perfectly honest: I've rewritten this post a couple times before posting, taking out language that would definitely result in a suspension.
also, major props to @Baelor Swift who somehow made it really really far without telling jruutu his opinions were wrong to the point of being asinine and that he is a grade A douchenozzle. U on some king shit, my guy.
with that out of the way,
what in the goddamn fuck were you smoking when you posted this collection of godawful takes??? Jesus H. Christ I've read some pretty shitty opinions here on the SHL, but denying the existence of the systemic racism that plagues not just the US but really the wholeass world is... wow. its actually fuckin shocking how youve never been punched in a bar or some shit for this.
I could understand these opinions coming from a small child. but you, you're a grown ass man! how fucking sheltered have you been your whole life? I appreciate that you were seemingly willing to learn, thanks again to the paragon of patience that is Baelor, but after going back and reading your original post, which seems so inflammatory, ignorant, and above all else fucking STUPID i have genuine doubts about whether it will actually stick.
Lastly, as many people have already said, you cant just spew racist shit and then deny that you are in fact a racist. You may not purposefully be a racist, as racism is so deeply ingrained into the fuckfest that is our society at large. But honestly? acknowledging that you are, in fact, quite racist, is the first step to becoming less of a cunt.
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teztify Registered
S7, S13, S15, S16 and S28 Challenge Cup Champion
06-03-2020, 10:35 AM(This post was last modified: 06-03-2020, 10:35 AM by teztify.)
06-03-2020, 10:20 AMjRuutu Wrote:
06-03-2020, 10:00 AMteztify Wrote: Of course not. We need to encourage everyone to have room to grow and learn, and to learn empathy. The problematic part is that you aren't just asking questions - you're sharing dangerous and inflammatory opinions, the kinds of things that create obstacles to equity. You aren't asking how black people - not just in America but the world over - are oppressed. You're saying they're "so-called oppressed". You aren't innocently taking up a discourse here, you're spreading dangerously uneducated, misinformed takes - your opinion has already been formed. You're not only suggesting that maybe the riots have gone too far - you're diminishing and nearly denying the problem exists at all.
It's a shifting of the goal posts to say that if they were oppressed they wouldn't make it out alive. That's literally not the definition of the word, and you can't change it to dismiss the plight of the black community.
I'll help:
And that is what happened, I shared and commented with the information I have. I know for a fact that at least over here in Finland black people are not oppressed, they have the same opportunities as everybody else, but just like everyone else, not everybody goes on to do great things despite having all the same opportunities. We are not all doctors and politicians over here. Just because there is opportunities, that does not mean anything if you don´t use those opportunities. Of course its wrong to not offer the opportunities in the first place. The picture I have about America, the land of the free, is that you are your own boss - you control your own destiny. That is clearly wrong or is wrong nowadays.
I see the riots and people looting, I think what in the fuck is wrong with you people, that business offered jobs to who knows how many, you bought your items there - now you just step and take everything for free and destroy the property. I think to myself why don´t you vote and take interest in your local politics instead. In this thread I learned that voting process is not perfect over there, in Finland only way to make a difference is by voting. The system works, if you don´t vote - you don´t have the right to complain. I thought its the same in the greatest country of the world, but its not the case. That is terrible.
And I am glad that you heard Baelor and were able to take something away from it. But dismissing problems in our own backyards is just as unhelpful to the cause that so many are fighting for right now as denying the problem in America is.
As a Canadian, I'm well aware of the many failures this country is responsible for when it comes to the treatment of the Black, Indigenous, and other communities.
I don't proclaim to know all there is to know about Finland, the Nordic countries, or the EU. I do, actually, have anecdotes from a professor of mine about the racism he experienced earning his PhD in Finland, but those aren't mine to share. I would encourage you to check out this report, "BEING BLACK IN THE EU", by the European Union Agency for Fundamental Rights, which found that Finland reports the highest rates of harassment and violence motivated by racism in the EU. You can't vote to end collective racism in the community - that's not a law that can be passed. It's a change we all need to do something to promote.
And that's not an attempt to single out Finland. I come from a province - and a country, frankly - where black people are multitudes more likely to be stopped by police (in any community, not just "bad neighbourhoods"), for example. My point is that this isn't an American problem, and we can't brush it aside or give anyone a pass because they say "oh yeah, maybe America *is* fucked" - because it doesn't solve the problems that invariably exist everywhere.
crutch Registered
i was wrong about sea of thieves 2018
Posts:6,926 Threads: 253 Joined: Oct 2015 Reputation:43
Discord: crutch#1738
Pronouns: Male
Player: Carter Crutchfield
i thought that the "free agency shouldn't exist, and you're bad if you leave the team that drafted you" take was the worst i would ever see on this site
06-03-2020, 10:21 AMGeckoeyGecko Wrote: i will be perfectly honest: I've rewritten this post a couple times before posting, taking out language that would definitely result in a suspension.
also, major props to @Baelor Swift who somehow made it really really far without telling jruutu his opinions were wrong to the point of being asinine and that he is a grade A douchenozzle. U on some king shit, my guy.
with that out of the way,
what in the goddamn fuck were you smoking when you posted this collection of godawful takes??? Jesus H. Christ I've read some pretty shitty opinions here on the SHL, but denying the existence of the systemic racism that plagues not just the US but really the wholeass world is... wow. its actually fuckin shocking how youve never been punched in a bar or some shit for this.
I could understand these opinions coming from a small child. but you, you're a grown ass man! how fucking sheltered have you been your whole life? I appreciate that you were seemingly willing to learn, thanks again to the paragon of patience that is Baelor, but after going back and reading your original post, which seems so inflammatory, ignorant, and above all else fucking STUPID i have genuine doubts about whether it will actually stick.
Lastly, as many people have already said, you cant just spew racist shit and then deny that you are in fact a racist. You may not purposefully be a racist, as racism is so deeply ingrained into the fuckfest that is our society at large. But honestly? acknowledging that you are, in fact, quite racist, is the first step to becoming less of a cunt.
I don´t know about the whole world part, but I´ll get that America is far from perfect. I don´t see anything wrong in questioning something if it´s perfectly acceptable to loot and/or riot in the streets. At very least I can air my thoughts.
What makes you think I´m sheltered or racist? Because I don´t share the same views about the world as you? If I don´t share those views 100% and have even slightly different ideas/thoughts - I´m automatically one of those people who are truly in the exact opposite direction to your views?
06-03-2020, 10:21 AMGeckoeyGecko Wrote: i will be perfectly honest: I've rewritten this post a couple times before posting, taking out language that would definitely result in a suspension.
also, major props to @Baelor Swift who somehow made it really really far without telling jruutu his opinions were wrong to the point of being asinine and that he is a grade A douchenozzle. U on some king shit, my guy.
with that out of the way,
what in the goddamn fuck were you smoking when you posted this collection of godawful takes??? Jesus H. Christ I've read some pretty shitty opinions here on the SHL, but denying the existence of the systemic racism that plagues not just the US but really the wholeass world is... wow. its actually fuckin shocking how youve never been punched in a bar or some shit for this.
I could understand these opinions coming from a small child. but you, you're a grown ass man! how fucking sheltered have you been your whole life? I appreciate that you were seemingly willing to learn, thanks again to the paragon of patience that is Baelor, but after going back and reading your original post, which seems so inflammatory, ignorant, and above all else fucking STUPID i have genuine doubts about whether it will actually stick.
Lastly, as many people have already said, you cant just spew racist shit and then deny that you are in fact a racist. You may not purposefully be a racist, as racism is so deeply ingrained into the fuckfest that is our society at large. But honestly? acknowledging that you are, in fact, quite racist, is the first step to becoming less of a cunt.
I don´t know about the whole world part, but I´ll get that America is far from perfect. I don´t see anything wrong in questioning something if it´s perfectly acceptable to loot and/or riot in the streets. At very least I can air my thoughts.
What makes you think I´m sheltered or racist? Because I don´t share the same views about the world as you? If I don´t share those views 100% and have even slightly different ideas/thoughts - I´m automatically one of those people who are truly in the exact opposite direction to your views?
black people dying is sad and all but won't someone please think of the local footlocker :((
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